liquidh8

Hey all. Has anyone tried to use the EBL's WUD datalogging to gauge their 0-60, 60-100, or quarter mile times, etc?? Just curious, I am going to try it out in a few weeks when I take the wagon to the track in a few weeks. Looking at the datalog, and the dump file, seems like it gets up and goes pretty good. For example, today on the way home from work, I pulled over on the side of the highway, started a new log, rolled to about 3 MPH, (if not the wheels will just spin ), and stomped it, about 12 seconds later I was doing 99MPH. I would like to bolt on the slicks, and get out one night on a back road, heat em up, an go full blast with the n2o while logging. I'll take it to like a 120 and read the log. Couldn't I use the distance traveled and the time/speed. To get a guestimate of the 1/4 mile, 0-60 times??

Lets hear your input.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

If anyone would like to toss in some ideas of what they would like to see and what they have done, please do so. The more input the better. This is something that I was working on just a few days ago. By going to the Analysis screen, selecting a starting record, then click the/a 'performance' button.

It then calculates the 60', 330', 660', and 1320' times and MPH. Also the 0-60 time. And provides a graph of the run. A good eighty percent of the coding is complete. For some reason the PC didn't like that and stopped responding to the keyboard and mouse input. Runs fine, just can't tell it to do anything. LOL, weird stuff. No development lost, just not able to continue work on it for now. PC is heading for the shop tomorrow (Wed), so I'll be back at it shortly.

liquidh8, as you mention using the distance traveled vs. time, it does work. The resolution isn't the best but is useable. The VSS pulses every 2.6 feet. So distance can be measured to the foot +- 1.3 feet. Not too bad. To use this method will need to keep wheel spin to a minimum.

I've also been thinking of adding a start and stop point selection. Then graphing the acceleration curve between the two points. This can be used for say a 2nd gear acceleration run. Makes it easy to compare one to the next. Can evaluate the difference in tuning changes.

Any thoughts?

RBob.

DM91RS

That sounds great Bob.

One thing I thought about soon after doing several WOT runs was a start and stop keyboard feature like the ZT-2 WB has. IE: click the space bar to start and stop the log. That way you only have logs of WOT without the "other" data to dig through.

Thanks.......DM

liquidh8

yup, that is is actually a good idea. This way you could one hand it when you want to start it.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I'll add something to pause the data logging. It will be another key such as the enter or backspace to pause it, then the space bar to un-pause it. The reason for this is so a double tap of the space bar doesn't take it from paused, un-paused, paused.

There is a down side to being able to pause the logging: forgetting that it has been paused. I had this feature in the original DOS based program I've used for years. And sure enough, I'd forget it was paused.

I have also added some log file marker features. Tapping the Tab key puts a marker in the data log. With the Space bar placing a different type of marker in the data stream.

In the Analysis screen a Tab marker causes that line to be highlighted in yellow. And the space bar marker line highlighted in green. This makes it easy to mark locations in the log file. On the Dump file there are actual text strings output at the Tab and Space bar locations. Strings include a timestamp and a unique text string for easy searching.

RBob.

liquidh8

That's a cool feature. This way here is you know you have a hiccup or some sort of bog or something you could drive the car and get it to do it, and as soon as it does, you could hit the tab key and look at the log later to see what was happening.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Yep, that's an excellent feature!

I wish we had something similar for marking locations to check closely later on with either TunerPro RT or Datamaster.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Log marking is a neat feature.
I've always relied on doing 3 quick throttle blips to mark the logs.
Just keep forgetting was I looking at something before ao after I did the blips. At least it gets me to look at the area.
Another thing that I've sugessted for TP was the ability to log bits along with analog channels. Something like a preset scale from 1 to 4 volts for on/off transitions. Allows you to mark exactly where the converter locks/unlocks etc. Can be helpful, not sure if you already do it.

TierAngst

Not sure if this is on topic but a feature I'd like to see added to the WUD is quick keys for changing between screens like maybe setting up 1-4 for WUD, MPG, VE, and SA

RBob

iTrader: (1)

When you say keys, you are referring to the number keys above the letter keys? Numbers such as 1, 2 not the F1, F2? I can do that. Actually, I can do either, just wondering which would be better.

Just as an FYI, currently there are ALT accelerators for each display (ALT-W, ALT_V, . . .).

RBob.

Mangus

Funny enough, the feature has been in TunerPro for 2 years. I just never "finished" hooking it up to the UI. You'll even see a hint about it in the docs.

It's a feature I hope to have done correctly in the next release (which, as I've stated elsewhere, is mostly focused on data acquisition and logging).

RBob seems to have an uncanny ability to do things well, doesn't he?!

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Yep, he does!

But you're pretty well known for the same thing so don't sell yourself short!

Grumpy

How about an *ignore so many VSS* option so that the traction limited cars can ignore the first half dozen VSS signals while the tires are spinning.

Maybe an option for using the ABS front sensors, as an input so that wheel spin isn't an issue?.

TierAngst

I think the abs has a separate controller and wouldn't be of any use to the EBL output.


As for which keys I'd like the numbers directly above the letters and not the function keys. Or if it isn't much tougher do both F1-4 and #1-4 to give people a choice.

DM91RS

As the display says............WhatsUp?

Any updates?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Hey, What's uuup. . .?


Lot's of updates and enhancements. In a bit I'll post a screen shot of the Performance graphing. Still preliminary, but shows where it is heading.

RBob.

DM91RS

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Does that include the '730 $8D version yet?




Sorry, couldn't resist.......

RBob

iTrader: (1)

You didn't receive your copy yet? I have to call Gates on this right off, his email stuff must not be working. . .

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Attached is a screen shot of the Performance graph. It isn't a 1/4 mile run but rather a 2nd gear pull. This doesn't matter. It shows the important parameters: RPM, MPH, TPS, and O2 (WB in this case, NB O2 if no WB selected).

Notice that the important 1/4 mile time slip information is calculated and shown. This picture shows the information over 20 seconds. If the 1/4 mile time was under 13.3 seconds the scale is zoomed in. IOW: there are 2 scales, a 20 sec scale and a 13.3 second scale. This is auto selected by the 1/4 mile time.

I have added a bunch more features above and beyond this. The main WUD display has been updated, teh MPG screen now displays the WB AFR (when equip'd), the Analysis screen has markers, added the collection pause and resume, and the quick select using the 1-4 number keys.

The CTS and IAT temperatures can now be had in degrees C or F. With this along with WB selection, it now auto updates the Analysis screen and performance graph. Such as when the WB is selected on channel 0, then changed to channel 1, the Analysis data and graph is updated automatically.

I am going to grab a screen shot of the markers, including the 1/4 start point marker. Be back soon.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Here is a screen shot showing Space Bar (in green) markers, along with a 'click on' mark (blue) for the 1/4 Performance start. The green markers are added during data logging. A tap of the space bar adds these. A tap of the TAB key will add a marker that shows up in yellow.

The blue line is highlighted by clicking on it with the mouse. A click on another line will un-highlight the current and highlight the new line. Then a click on the '1/4 Mile' button shows the graph.

If a graph is already displayed, it is updated at the new 'blue' marked, mouse clicked area.

The 'Find Mark' button searches foreward and displays the next marker area (blue, green, or yellow).

TBI Rocks!

RBob.

DM91RS

Looks awsume.................when is it available?

liquidh8

That's awsome!!
So when are we getting the new CD in the mail???
Maybe I'll have my LC-1 back before you are ready to udate us with the new WUD. hehe

vernw

iTrader: (2)

No, didn't get it yet.

Guess you better make that call to Uncle Billy....

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

RBob, glad to see it. Send me a copy when it is done.

On a side note, your VSS is as crazy as mine.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I'm thinking the jittery VSS is from the location. It is under the dash near the end of the speedo cable. So it picks up some variation as the cable twists.

Here is the latest Performance Graph screen shot. The movable cursor is now working. Can grab it with the mouse and drag it up and down the graph (it is the vertical line right where the TPS% peaks). The small box on the upper right displays the current values at the cursor.

Only thing I'd really like to add before release is a general ADC input routine. Something that will support whatever a user would like to connect. Even now it will only support 1 WB input. A whole bunch of different ones, but only 1 on a single channel.

RBob.

DM91RS

Very cool..........the cursor scrolling and readout was what I was hoping for.



As far as jittery my wide band logs do not make me feel so bad after seeing someone else's. It seems not smooth but that must be the way that they are. I know on a WOT run every WB sample of the WhatsUp data analysis is different even at 17 frames a second.

DM

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Actually porting that over to other datastreams doesn't seem that difficult now that the hard part is done (its only software)
Us $8D guys are anxious for something along those lines
I know its a EBL/TBI only thing but, Any thoughts for the future?

DM91RS

Hey Bob.....................any updates for us?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Yes. Everything is ready to go, A BinConvert utility to take your current calibration and create a new BIN (has updated code and copies over your current calibration), the new & improved WUD, ECU/XDF's, and doc's. Ran off the CD-ROM's today along with shipping labels and a short letter.

Pick up CD mailers Monday, stuff, and postage, then mail on Tuesday. Every one will have the upgrade shortly. I just finished updating the web site with the new screen shots. Woo-hoo, looks good.

Thanks for asking,

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I have been thinking about it, and would like to do something. Unfortunately is isn't as easy as it sounds. With the EBL setup I am able to control what ends up in the data stream and how. Using the stock $8D data stream leaves some things out (injector flow constant, lots of status bit information). The WB patches leave additional issues. Then the issues of $8D on a Y-body and the corresponding CCM chatter. This all adds up quick. It is still possible that a reduced version will be available in the future.

RBob.

DM91RS

Thank you!

Checked out your updates on the website. Looks awesome as usual. You never fail to impress.

DM

PS...............I have a feeling traction issues and bragging rights will come up in threads to come with the performance analyzer logs being posted.

liquidh8

RBob, that is awsome. Looking forward to getting the CD in the mail. I have a question though, where would you be able to see the fuel pressure, if one were to be using it. Would it show up in the datalog, a recorded data stream? Or is there anouther bar or display that pops up in the WUD if you select that you are using it? I'm sure I'll find out when I get the update, but I figured I'd ask.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

When selected the fuel pressure is displayed on the WUD graphical screen. Opposite side of the WB display. It is also placed in the 'Dump' file output. It is shown in PSI.

RBob.

Downzero

I'd just like to enter the thread. My EBL is in the ECM and I read through the whole thread and modified my .bin as necessary. I think this thread is a must-start for anyone that has just bought an EBL.

I got my .bin set up for my manual tranny, changed quite a few things to match my 25 psi fuel pressure and injector size, etc. I should be firing a brand new engine on Tuesday, wish me luck! This is my first attempt at TBI tuning, swapping it into my truck, etc.

DM91RS

Downzero you are going to like the data logging/WUD.

The new upgrade cd rom for the WUD just arrived here and will be loaded in one momento...................

Downzero

I don't have my upgrade yet, RBob said it'd be shipping seperately.

I've got everything that I need to get started (Burn1, chips, EBL, ZIF socket) and I'm ready to rock, in fact, I burned a chip of my modified .bin already, which is what I'll use to start the engine/break it in.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

One thing to be sure of is that the SES does the blink during key on. This is with a key-on, engine-off, the SES comes on briefly, blinks off, then comes on solid. If it doesn't do this then it isn't running from the PROM. It is in back up mode. At 25 psi FP the engine will flood immediately.

Also, do a key-on, engine-off and use the WUD to check the various sensor values. Stuff like the TPS%, MAP, coolant and intake air temperatures.

RBob.

Downzero

Is there any particular reason why it wouldn't run from the PROM?

If I have burned it, varified it with Moates' software, and installed it in the correct orientation on the board, why wouldn't it run from the PROM?

DM91RS

The new WUD is cool!

..........alot cooler than the outside temp right now.......whew it's hot.

Anyway the graphing is very nice.


I did not have much time to play with it for too long and the new bin seems to run WOT a leaner but it's gonna be fun............


Rbob...................

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Checking for the SES blink should be done every time the key is turned on. Can save a lot of headaches. As for why it may not run from the PROM, bunch of reasons (of which I've never had happen to me, just heard about them ), pin folds under, chip not fully seated, incorrect checksum, picked up wrong PROM (blank), mis-inserted by a set of pins, forgot to double stack or offset burn, static zap. This stuff rarely happens, but when it does it a pain when you start the engine and it isn't running right.

RBob.

Downzero

Pin didn't fold under, it's a ZIF so I know it's seated, not sure what the checksum is, you'll have to help me out there. It's definitely not a blank PROM, and I did offset burn as your instructions stated.

Just want to make sure I have everything ironed out before I try this beast.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Your welcome. If you enabled the high rpm/load async mode it can run a tad leaner. Be sure set the trip points high enoguh to keep the inejctor duty cycle above 70%.

If you didn't enable the high rpm/load async mode then the WOT fuel should be the same. Double check the WB that is selected. I think that may change depending upon which one was originally choosen (I added additional WB units).

I also added an Innovate 0-5 v range for 10-20 AFR. Reprogramming the WB unit and using that range will be more accurate then the 1-2 v range.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

It sounds as though you have checked for the blink and don't get one?

If you do get the blink then all is OK. Hook up the serial port to the laptop, start the What's Up Display, select your COM port, key-on, engine-off. the display should come alive. Pushing on the gas pedal (if connected to the TBI) will have the TPS% bar moving. MAP should be high, 90 - 100 KPa dependent upon your elevation.

If that all works start a datalog, play with tapping the space bar, move the go-pedal. Then stop the log, and try playing it back, use the analysis screen. Just to familiarize yourself with it.

RBob.

Downzero

No, I haven't hooked it up yet. I'm assembling my engine Monday/installing it Tuesday. I'll let y'all know what happens.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Just thought I would toss this up here.

Here is my typical street start (5mph, left in OD, didn't stall the converter, A/C on (EBL controlled compressor), 100* weather, stock 1983 Van air cleaner, etc) run through the 1/8 mile. Not fantastic, but remember this is a TBI 350 pulling a 5,500# brick. I got a good launch but lost power in the upper RPM band due to static injectors. The result was a decent ET, but horrible MPH.



The injectors went static twice for more than 4 seconds total during this run (+ fuel trim due to a plugging fuel filter due to alcohol being added into Texas gas causing lower than normal fuel pressue under load and fuel starvation). It was missing so bad near the top of 2nd that I let out early, yet the NB didn't budge, really says something about people who insist that .9 on the NB is good enough.

zipfast

iTrader: (2)

This is a part throtle rip (75% TPS)
Note the DC, I did raise the fuel after this...
And a launch...
And the 1/4 mile..

zipfast

iTrader: (2)

And just for GP my gas usage (IF) I keep my foot out of it

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Here is mine



Keep in mind that it is typically pushing this 75-80 MPH down the highway with the Dual A/C on as cold as it gets.

kevm14

Geez. I made a spreadsheet to calculate how many miles I'd have to drive to break even after purchasing EBL, based on how much money I'd save on gas. My assumption was I'd go from 18 average to 22 average, and that would take about 10,000 miles to break even. Not bad.