Ok, here is the story. I have an electric carb and want to swap to TPI. I have the complete TPI manifold/harness/computer from an '86 T/A, but that car is an auto 305 and mine is a 350 stick. Both have an electric speedo, but the auto has a TCC plug and mine has a reverse switch (I think thats what it is anyway). Am I up the creek, or can I rig it somehow? Will the computer set a code b/c it won't see the converter! Do I need a different computer? I also want to try burning my own chip and know what I need, but can the 305 chip be easily modified for the 350? I have an AFPR and plan on swaping injectors, I'm thinking about the SVO 24 lb. but sounds like it will pretty tricky with the programing. Also I know there are different computers out there but the only part # I can find on it is 8830271, it looks like a sticker fell off the computer and with my luck that would be the one with the right part #, so if I have to swap the computer, would the 7747 or 746 work (I saw the swap post below)?

------------------
'86 TA, T-tops, T-5, 3.73, 4 wheel disks
350, compucam 2040, performer intake,SLP Headers, 3" race magnum muffler, 1.6 Comp rockers, Ripper shifter,
perf. friction pads, Hypertech ignition, Earls brake hoses, Hotchkis springs, Tokico Illumina 5 adjustable
shocks and struts, Lakewood panhard and trailing arms
14.73 @ 95... traction still a problem

 

OK,

Someone read this over for me to make sure that I didn't miss anything.

slowta...
You're in luck. Since you have a computer/harness from an '86 then that means that you have the 165 ECM. Now - that's both good and bad. The DIYs have done a good job at hacking the $6E Code (1989 code run on the 165 ECM). But, there isn't much info for the DIY'er for the $32 ('86) and the $32B ('87/'88) code. However, you can upgrade your code to '89 code and then use the info available to modify your '89 code.

Here's what I would recommend (somebody back me up to make sure I'm not losing it)...

Get a stock GM '89 Corvette Manual chip or reprogram your chip using an '89 Corvette Manual bin. Plug your cold start injector because the '89 code does not use the cold start injector. I would also recommend removing VATS and EGR from this BIN. As far as the TCC plug I'm not 100% sure ... what I do know is that the manual PROMs are configured for the manual and will therefore not set any type of TCC code. I think that you can get away with it but, again, I'm not 100% sure.

IMHO - I would ditch the entire 165 computer/chip/harness and obtain a computer/harness/PROM from a 1990-1992 TPI F-Body or 1990-1991 Corvette. The 730 is better from a tuning perspective for many reasons. However, the 165 will work and work very well ... its just a tad bit more difficult to tune due to connection problems with scanners and the MAF tables.

BTW - changing injectors often only requires changing a single parameter inside the BIN file.

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.587 @ 107.97mph (1.710 60ftr) on the long runner setup.
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels. Stock Wheels. No Weight Reduction.
Gunning for NA 11's with the MiniRam II and Hooker LT Headers.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

 

Thanks, but lets see if I get this right. The computer that I have right now is a 165, and that same one was used through '89? So the only difference between this computer and newer ones is the chip used inside it? The '89 chips don't use the 9th injector thus making them more popular and thats why there are more .bins available. Also are you saying that I can use any MAF .bin in this computer? Also I would have to keep the EGR functional, are there any differences in the valve used or can I use the old one? (I noticed what seems to be another EGR port on newer manifolds, towards the distributor. Does that mean there are 2 EGR valves on newer cars?)
Since I already paid for and pulled this harness I don't really want to buy another, so I'll work with this one since it seams doable. But can you clarify what you mean by saying there are connection problems with scanners and MAF tables? Will the burner have trouble reading the chip?
And yet I have another question, whats the best/easiest/right way of connecting the "check engine" light and the ALDL connector, since they are both a part of another under dash harness? I find it too easy to just plug and play, but could it be?

 

Yes.

Yes. The ECMs have the same exact part number from GM.

That's one of the reasons.

No. A MAF .bin from 1985 will not work. MAF bin files from 1986-1989 from 5.0 or 5.7 TPI F and Y bodies should work. However, I don't recommend moving backwards ... only forwards.

The F-Body had the EGR valve in the center of the intake manifold and fed exhaust gases to the intake SOLELY through the intake manifold. The Y-Body had the EGR valve located at the back of the TPI manifold and used exhaust gases from the manifold (I believe) to feed into the intake. Aftermarket TPI intake manifold have provisions for BOTH so that they don't have to make a separate manifold for each application.

Scanner for some reason just don't want to always link up with the 165 ECM in full 8192 baud mode. I don't know why. I have never experienced these problems with the 730.

Regarding the MAF tables. Not really a big deal. But, when tuning you need to adjust the fueling curves for part throttle. In the 730 this just means looking at the BLMs with respect to particular kPa and RPM values. You then adjust the VE at those specific kPa and RPMs. High BLMs mean you are running lean. If you are running lean then your VE (Volumetric Efficiency) is higher than what the PROM is programmed for. Thus, for the 730 ECM, you simply raise the VE curve with respect to the kPa and RPMs that your BLMs were high at. For the MAF cars this is more complicated because you must raise or lower the MAF curves (g/sec vs. counts). However, scan tools only report g/sec. They don't link it with counts. Thus, there are some judgements that need to be done on the part of the tuner. I'm not saying you can't work with the 165 ... on the contrary, it is very workable. The 730 is just easier.

Not sure on this one. I would have to consult schematics and research the wiring.

Tim



------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.587 @ 107.97mph (1.710 60ftr) on the long runner setup.
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels. Stock Wheels. No Weight Reduction.
Gunning for NA 11's with the MiniRam II and Hooker LT Headers.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

 

WOW, That was pretty in depth. Thank you!

But one last question. When you say different years use $32, $32b, and $6e calibrations, whats the difference? Is that just the factory programming for different motors?

 

So the non-coldstart TPIs, other than the obvious lack of the 9th injector, use the exact same hardware as the coldstart-equipped cars? The only difference, then, is the programming?

Reason why I ask is, I have an '86 305TPI auto and if I can use the '89 firmware and just disconnect the 9th injector, I'm all for that.

It just surprises me that the GM designers didn't realize that they didn't actually NEED that 9th injector! Just think of all the money GM could've saved if someone had figured that out in '85 or '86...

 

Hi guys Im a newby thats been lurking for a while and finally have something to say.
Where you aware that there is a program to run the 165 as MAP (only chage maf wiring to map),all our cars here in Oz use a derivitive of this ecu running with a map sensor.I have used this on my 69 Firebird that I made a custom intake / throttle body system on.Was very easy to tune as only had to adjust the ve table and spark timing to get optimal results. Tunercat are working on a definition file for this application.
Does anyone have a hack of the $32 ,$32b and $6e as I would be most interested to see what you guys get to play with in the states.
Whats so cool about the 730 ecu everyone seems to talk about it but have never seen one in the flesh.
Does anyone have some spare 165 memcals they could send for a holiday her in Oz.Am willing to pay


Originally posted by TRAXION:

Someone read this over for me to make sure that I didn't miss anything.

slowta...
You're in luck. Since you have a computer/harness from an '86 then that means that you have the 165 ECM. Now - that's both good and bad. The DIYs have done a good job at hacking the $6E Code (1989 code run on the 165 ECM). But, there isn't much info for the DIY'er for the $32 ('86) and the $32B ('87/'88) code. However, you can upgrade your code to '89 code and then use the info available to modify your '89 code.

Here's what I would recommend (somebody back me up to make sure I'm not losing it)...

Get a stock GM '89 Corvette Manual chip or reprogram your chip using an '89 Corvette Manual bin. Plug your cold start injector because the '89 code does not use the cold start injector. I would also recommend removing VATS and EGR from this BIN. As far as the TCC plug I'm not 100% sure ... what I do know is that the manual PROMs are configured for the manual and will therefore not set any type of TCC code. I think that you can get away with it but, again, I'm not 100% sure.

IMHO - I would ditch the entire 165 computer/chip/harness and obtain a computer/harness/PROM from a 1990-1992 TPI F-Body or 1990-1991 Corvette. The 730 is better from a tuning perspective for many reasons. However, the 165 will work and work very well ... its just a tad bit more difficult to tune due to connection problems with scanners and the MAF tables.

BTW - changing injectors often only requires changing a single parameter inside the BIN file.

Tim

[/B][/QUOTE]

 

Hey mate,

Can you give us some more info on running your MAF 165 with a hacked bin so that is uses MAP and not MAF. That could be very useful.

G'Day,
Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.587 @ 107.97mph (1.710 60ftr) on the long runner setup.
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels. Stock Wheels. No Weight Reduction.
Gunning for NA 11's with the MiniRam II and Hooker LT Headers.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

 

Is there a site or can i add attacments directly to the email? for uploading wiring diags or bin files?
Can anyone email a listing of your bin file table locations for the $6E snd $32B? I wouldnt mind trying a MAF out of curiosity.

The $5D calibration we use on our ecu,s supports cylinder select 4,6,8 cyl and throttle body or Port fuel injection.No VATS ,TCC control , fan control ,rpm and speed limits ,knock sensor ,acc control ,idle air control

tomcat692001@yahoo.com


------------------

 

Ok so I'm really dense but I guess I just need some more convincing! Please give me some comments on the following:

"So the non-coldstart TPIs, other than the obvious lack of the 9th injector, use the exact same hardware as the coldstart-equipped cars? The only difference, then, is the programming?
Reason why I ask is, I have an '86 305TPI auto and if I can use the '89 firmware and just disconnect the 9th injector, I'm all for that.

It just surprises me that the GM designers didn't realize that they didn't actually NEED that 9th injector! Just think of all the money GM could've saved if someone had figured that out in '85 or '86..."

I know I should just be able to infer all the answers from the replies above, but like I said, I must just be dense

 

I must be very dense also... TRAXION: I posted the other week about using '89 vette manual chip in my '89 Formula after the 305>355 swap (still has 305 chip) and you replied that I should go get a custom prom.
That's great but I wanted something a little more affordable at the moment since I'm dealing with traction and other issues at the moment (just ordered a set of BFG drags this morning). More specifically I asked if I could just use an off the shelf ADS or Hypertech (figured I could get one off ebay for about $30).
Now with this post you're recommending a stock vette chip??? So I can go over to the dealer and spend $50 and be all set???
What I really need to know is if the pulse width's for the injectors are overwritten by the off-the-shelf type chips or do they rely on stock values (as such with the ADS piggyback type chip). I'm running the vette 22 lb'ers in the 355 right now.
I'm not a prom burner at this moment and right now I think I'll stay that way but some advice from the master would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


------------------
'89 Formula - Thunderchicken - 355 Vette L98/T-5/3.45 9-bolt/black/t-tops - the fun car!
'90 GTA - The GTA - 5.0 LB9/TH700/3.27 9-bolt/black/t-tops/tan leather - the cruiser.

 

oops, nevermind, this same topic is being covered in the TPI page..

 

Brian,

All 'off-the-shelf' chips that I have seen really don't modify the fuel curves. Lots of 'other' changes but no fuel curve changes ... not really.

Heck - my TPIS level V PROM didn't even modify the fuel curves...

I'll reread your original post and post another repsponse if applicable.

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.587 @ 107.97mph (1.710 60ftr) on the long runner setup.
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels. Stock Wheels. No Weight Reduction.
Gunning for NA 11's with the MiniRam II and Hooker LT Headers.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

 

Where are these "fuel curves" hiding ? All I can see in TunerCat is the "main spark table" but nothing related to fuel... Or maybe I'm just blind ? lol

------------------
92 Z28 L98 350
---------------
Ported and polished heads, ported stock TPI base, ported plenum, Comp Cams XR270HR-10 cam (lift .495/.502 duration 218/224 lobe separation 110), Edelbrock TES headers, LT4 valve springs, Crane AFPR, Flowmaster catback with LT1 style tips, MSD coil & wires...

"Take that auto, drop it in first, hold the brakes, stomp the gas and grin from ear to ear! :-)

[This message has been edited by Blade (edited October 13, 2000).]

 

Blade - do you have a definition file for the 730ECM for TunerCat ($8D)

Volumetric Efficiency vs. RPM vs. MAP
Volumetric Efficiency vs. RPM vs. MAP (extended)

Tim




------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.587 @ 107.97mph (1.710 60ftr) on the long runner setup.
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels. Stock Wheels. No Weight Reduction.
Gunning for NA 11's with the MiniRam II and Hooker LT Headers.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org