Well,

Lets get started! Glenn and I are going to take this board into a new direction. A 'pointed' direction in order to provide a sort of 'school' in order to learn. The biggest complaint is that after learning the basics a lot of people just don't know what they should change, how they should change it, and why they should change it. Starting this coming monday we are going to start a series on Programming 730 ('P730' for short). In the beginning we will be posting a new topic every Monday morning for discussion. Depending on schedules and how this proceeds we will either extend that to once every two weeks or make it shorter. For right now ... every Monday.

The P730 series will concentrate on Tuning your F-Body that has the 730 ECM. I encourage everybody to join in and ask questions related to the topic we are discussing or to post YOUR experiences with the topic we are discussing. In order for this to work we need your participation. Even if you reply and say 'I really don't understand what xxxxx means'. Comments like that are VERY useful! In the long run these posts will serve as a sort of guide on tuning the 730. Every post will begin with 'P730: ' followed by the discussion topic. This will allow future users to use the search feature of this board to find topics they are looking for. Once the 730 is done (which it will probably never REALLY be done) we will move to the Programming 165 series (P165). Sorry to the 165 users but we have to begin somewhere and the 730 was the obvious choice due to the amount of material available and the amount of experience available. Please do not post your own topics using the 'P730', 'P165', etc. designation. In order for this to work it needs to be organized somewhat.

Definitely looking forward to this. We may even have some of the more experienced guys who usually aren't here on this particular list come over to help out with these posts. It should prove to be very helpful and very interesting.

Tim

------------------

• Program your own PROMs!. Read my article to get started!
• Research and Experiment before asking questions.
• This is not a chip store. Go to the classifieds if you want someone to sell you a chip or give you a BIN.

TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

 

That's great news Tim!! I for one will be tuning in. Thanks to Glenn, he initiated my "EPROM literacy" training.

You state there is no such thing as a dumb question, so here goes. I've learned that when teaching, you can never assume the student knows anything, so the teacher must be specific. Is the 730 ECM for the third gen speed density system? And what is the 165?

------------------
Willie

Supercharged 1987 305 IROC-Z, Daily-Driver, Emissions-Legal.
12.57 @ 111 mph.
12.04 @ 114 mph (50-hp nitrous).
http://members.optushome.com/au/downunder1/rides/willie/willie.html

1987 "20th Anniversary Commemorative Edition" Z28 Convertible -- Super Chevy Show Class Winner, 1998.

 

Willie,



Click on the link to my article at the top of this page. Go all the way to the bottom to where the tables are. Find the row labeled 'ECM ID'. You will see a 7 digit number like 1227165 or 1227730 or etc. The first 4 digits are the same ... 1227. The last 3 digits differ. This is how we refer to the ECM.

The 165 ECM is found in '86 through '89.
The 730 ECM is found in '90 through '92.

Take a closer look at these tables and you will see that you can determine A LOT given the year of your car. Let's assume a 1987 F-Body.....

WOW ... the table tells us its a high baud rate ECM (P4) capable of 8192bps. The ECM Identification number is 1227165. The EPROM type is a 27C128 and it is 128kb. Its a MAF system using the $32B calibration. Last, the 'chip' in the ECM isn't just the EPROM its a MemCal which is a packaged EPROM with NETRES (network resistors). This table is a good reference.

Tim

------------------

• Program your own PROMs!. Read my article to get started!
• Research and Experiment before asking questions.
• This is not a chip store. Go to the classifieds if you want someone to sell you a chip or give you a BIN.

TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

 

I agree, Great News Guys.
I will also be tuning in.
Just getting started with Tunercat.
I have many questions on tuning the 730ecm in my 92Z.


------------------
Louis
Convertable
92 Z28 305tpi Auto w/Paxton, Ram air mod,Water methanol inj.,52mm T/B,ASM Large tube runners, ported upper & lower intakes,AFPR,23# injectors,1.6 roller rockers,slp tri-y headers,3in. cat,3in. gale banks cat back system,3.42 gears,and much more.
http://www.lbsz28blown.cz28.com

 

Yeah Traxion, it's all your fault I spent lots of money I ordered Tunercat ($6E), a pocket programmer and a UV EPROM eraser. I couldn't find my old programmer (well I found the board, but not the controller or the software for it), cause I haven't used it since I was playing with old DEC PDP stuff. If anybody even knows what a PDP is, you know how long ago that was

Anyway, since you made me spend all this money, I am gonna ask a lot of questions - especially when you get to the 165 series...

------------------
89 Firebird Formula
WS6 package,ZZ4 Crate engine
SLP 58MM TB, Edelbrock TES Headers
Random Tech 3" cat, SLP 3" stainless exhaust
9 bolt rear, Hotchiss swing arms, Lakewood panhard rod
Corvette 2/4 servo, kevlar band, full poly rear.
Centerline 16x8 rims, B.F Goodrich drag radials

 

Might be an idea to post a hac of 8D Mask somewhere so folks can get a grasp of what all is in there.
Or a URL,
Same for the 6E, and 42.

Then tell everyone to take a valium, and not try to get ahead of things. Too, often folks can go way off on tangents, and get lost.

Also, keep repeating about complete notes, and looking for trends. It takes a while but after the first couple hundred (LOL) it really does get alot easier.
Also, about don't be afraid to revisit things as you go. It is amazing how at some time you think you have a clear pic of things, and someone goes *oh hey* yada yada, and ya learn a new trick.

 

I have a MAF system as do several of my friends. I may (will?) go to SD after a while, but I'm interested in learning with what I & my friends have for now. What do you think about having concurrent 730 & 165 topics going? I would read both and extrapolate/translate what I can from the two as a learning guide. At least one topic might allow more intelligent questions to be asked in the other. It might also help all of us understand (Grumpy excluded, he obviously knows) the comparison between tuning SD & MAF, which would make this a much more valuable forum to beginners. I hope to be of more use on here as my learning curve slopes upward, especially where MAF is concerned. Maybe as you approach experienced people to ask for help you can find someone willing to help build the 165 section. I know this would seriously jump start my learning, as well as my hope that attending the EFI Pow Wow will. I had to mention this since it's killing me to know that there will be a boat-load of great beginner info available soon, which I WILL study, that won't necessarily be of direct help to me and other newbie 165 users, or at least not as helpful. I will gladly volunteer any help I can provide for this, such as "cleaning up" someone's notes if they don't have time or extracting & posting info from other articles if anyone knows of any good ones to start with.

Thanks,
Shawn

 

I will definitly be tuneing in, always willing to learn just be prepared for me, lol (i will be amongst the mob of people asking questions)

------------------
89 IROC-Z 350 TPI

-Flowmaster Catback
-Performance Resource Chip
-700R4 (Rebuilt) Too much done to actually list
-K&N Airfilters
-Ported Plenum
-2.77 Gears (not much to brag about but eh, its there)
-MSD 8.5 mm plug wires
-Problems every other day with the car (probably not a mod, but to me it sure makes a difference)

 

Thanks for the reminder Grumpy regarding "good notes"...while you are testing AND even cataloging previous BINS and tracking changes. I've already found a situation where I had to go digging through 50 bins looking for a particular change.

I catalogue everything and even have a "version number".


As for the 165s, I would LOVE to do concurrent articles on the 165. But there are two problems: 1) Time (we all have personal lives) and 2) Tim and I have SD cars. I can tell you that JUST saying "do this change" without actually testing it is of no useful information. Many times, when trying a feature of the eprom, you find either there is a "hidden constant" that affects the functioning of the particular feature you are trying to invoke or you have to "play with it" to find the "limits".

Luckily, I have met and chatted with a few MAF guys who "hopefully" will be willing to look at "testing" some of the "features" that we are discussing on the 730. So I can get some feedback from them so we have a good idea of what we are talking about.

Of course, someone could volunteer to help testing and writing P165 articles?

 

Unfortunately, disussing both ECMs is not possible at this time. The major reason is the amount of time involved (as Glenn pointed out).

Also, I just wanted to indicate that for any/all topics that we discuss I will be going on my past experience and will not be able to conduct further testing. Right now my car is 'down' getting several upgrades. She won't be on the road until sometime in April (late). However, I still have all my previous data and calibrations on-file

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

[This message has been edited by TRAXION (edited February 18, 2001).]

 

There will some topics (e.g. Spark Tables) that will be applicable to both (and other ecms too). Tim will have to decide on how he wishes to identify those; possible P730 & P165. But this would also be applicable to TBI.

There might be a couple of different tables (or different titles), but generally, tuning for spark will be the same for all ecms.

 

Glenn,
I believe the dual designation P730 & 165 is an excellent idea and would be a great help to us 165 users, or at least for those characteristics that you know apply the same to both ECMs you could put a P.S. at the bottom of the P730 post that says:
"Also applys to the P165 ECM"
Dave

 

I eagerly await the first edition..