I am having some issues with using an AT29C256 EEPROM with a Pocket Programmer and I am hoping I can get some help with. I am using Winbin at this point for editing my ARAP-based bins for my 1987 GTA, MAF, TPI system. I have an old ADS memcal that I have removed the ADS EPROM from, and installed an AT29C256 in its place. I also have made the adapter so I can just plug the Memcal onto the adapter that stays in the Pocket Programmer. So that is the background on what I am working with.

What happens is this: I will go into Win_PP2 and select the AT29C256, then install the Memcal into the above mentioned adapter in the Pocket Programmer, then I will erase it by filling the Buffer with FFs, I verify that it is blank and it always verifies as blank. I then load my bin into the buffer. At this point I am all set to go right? So my issue is with the start and end addresses I think. I know that my bin is designed to go onto a 128k chip and I am using a 256k chip, but this is nothing new and I know lots of people do this without issue. I was told to set the start address to 04000 and the end to 07FFF and it should burn successfully. I was able to burn a couple iterations of the ARAP-based code with that method, and that was it. I have not been able to successfully burn a chip for a few weeks now - with the old Pocket Programmer software and with the new stuff. I have tried setting the start to 04000 and the end to 07FFF but that doesn't work. I have tried setting the start to 00000 and the end to 04000 and also leaving it with the start as 00000 and the end as 07FFF and neither of those methods work either. No matter what I set the start and end address to, the EEPROM will verify that it has burned properly in Win_PP2 and the data on the EEPROM matches the buffer. But when I install the EEPROM into the ECM, the car either won't start or it starts, runs like a$$ and has a steady SES light. I also cannot communicate with the ECM if I have one of the EEPROMs I burned in the ECM. I have a spare EPROM that is a known good one and it works fine as far as Scantool communication and the car actually starting and running decently without an SES light. The problem is that I have made some pretty drastic changes to my setup that are basically requiring me to make more modifications to my bin and I have some driveability issues that I have found here and there. I am just kind of confused as to what the problem is and I am hoping that someone has a rock solid procedure that they follow when they burn an MAF 16k bin onto an AT29C256 that I can adopt and/or try.

Thanks ahead of time everyone

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1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

I'm not positive about the type of EPROM you are working with, but does that one have the little "UV window" on it.

On my 2732 EPROM's you gotta peel the sticker back and erase it with UV light.

I not sure tho, hopefully some of the others will chime in.

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'92 Astro 350 TBI Edelbrock intake, MSD 6AL, 3.42's, 2.5" exhaust, Flowmaster 40 2 chamber, B&M 2nd stage shift kit, 255 60 R15 tires on AR-727's, Polished & Bored TBI, Custom EPROM in progress

 

AT29C256s are electronically eraseable (thus the EE in EEPROM - Electronically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory) so they are erased via software.... but thanks for tryin to help..

 

Whenever you go to do a re-burn you should erase the FLASH PROM first. Do this by filling the buffer with HEX FFs, and do the whole PROM from 00000 to 07FFF

When working with the addresses, it is the start of the DEVICE that you need to change, NOT the start of the buffer. Set the start of the DEVICE to 04000 and the end to 07FFF, leave the buffer ALONE. When you load your bin into the buffer it will only take up the first half of the buffer from 00000 to 04000, so if you start the buffer at 04000, things start to get messed up when it comes time to program. When you go to program the device with the start of device set to 04000 the computer will burn the beginning of the buffer to 04000 and go from there. This works flawlessly in my experiance.
Make sure you have selected the AT29C256 FLASH PROM in the type of device. If all else fails, try a different flash prom.
And before you load your BIN file into the buffer, fill the buffer with 00s.
Good luck - and let us know how it goes.

 

Here's what I do for burning a 128 BIN onto a 256 chip: Take your stock BIN, modify it (I use TunerCat), then name it (say) test1.bin. Copy it, and rename the copy test2.bin. Note that they will be exactly the same. Now go to a DOS prompt, and type -

copy /b test1.bin+test2.bin test.bin

The resulting test.bin will be 32kb (as opposed to the identical two which are 16kb).

Use this BIN to load into your 29C256 EPROM. Use the default 256 addresses.

It works; I'm driving mine. I should also say that I have to burn my 29C256 chips from the DOS program in Pocket Programmer (I think it's up to 3.70 now). Probably just my laptop; a Compaq w/diagnostic partition which may interfere with the Win PP program.

Piggy-backing the code like this does no harm and is a good way to make sure you don't have the problem of the ECU trying to read a blank address.

 

Thanks for the insight guys (and/or girls). I am going to give that double copy method a try since I have played with the addresses a bunch and still can't get it to work that way. I'll keep ya'll posted.....

Thanks again
Laterzzzz

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1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

Karl, now that Xtronics has a newer version of the Windows PP program; I find it works flawlessly and I no longer have to do the Hex FF trick.

I found I really had to use the Hex FF for the DOS version (FILEPROM) which for awhile was the only version that I could get to work with my computer.

 

None of the Win versions (up to 1.30 now) work with AT29C256 Flash EPROMs on my laptop; however the 27C128 will program with them. It's only the 29C256's I have to use the DOS (up to 3.70 now) program for.

 

Sarkee, have you talked to Xtronics? Seems there were a some Programmers where the AT29C256 would not work properly. When they got a new Programmer, they worked fine.

Xtronics is very good with their warranty and even did this on Programmers where the expiry date was passed. Send Karl or Norma an e-mail, I am SURE they will take care of you.

 

Well the 'double up on the code' method did not work for me either. The EEPROM burns successfully like usual, but the car won't start with it and I cannot communicate with the ECM. I also tried a brand new AT29C256 EEPROM with both methods (address manipulation and doubling the code) and neither one of them worked with the new chip. Could this be a problem with Winbin? As I am only having problems with getting the car running and not the actual burning of the EEPROM. I have modified bins successfully in the past with Winbin???????........... I might have to just step up and spend the money on TunerCat...... I was hoping I could get away with not having to spend the money on it as I am a poor student right now...........

My other idea is that my voltages could be off in my programmer. It is practically brand new as I purchased it this past summer (not sure of the exact date). How can I check the output voltages? I know I have seen someone post about this, but I am going to be lazy and ask someone to post it again for me.... .

Thanks for the help guys....
Laterzzzzzzzz

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1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

[This message has been edited by Matt87GTA (edited October 11, 2001).]

 

In FILEPROM, hit "88" and it will give you some diagnostic info.

Some people have found that the "double up" method does not seem to work. Filling the bottom half with "Hex 00s" seems to work flawlessly IF the PP is working fine.

I will e-mail you a "routine" that will convert a 16K BIN to a 32K BIN with Hex 00s filled on the bottom. If that method does not work, then I would suspect your PP.

 

Glenn could you e-mail me that routine as well? I have also been trying to program the 29c256 as well with no luck.
Thans Tom (tomab@qwest.net)

 

Karl has answered my emails...to suggest that the latest version(s) have improved port drivers...I've emailed him again today about this...

[This message has been edited by Sarkee (edited October 11, 2001).]

I'm editing out any criticism of Xtronics from earlier; my apologies. (Yes, I'm annoyed). I *can* program AT29C256 chips in DOS with Fileprom.exe; it's only the Windows program(s) (ie, Win_PP2.exe) that *won't* program AT29C256's; they *do* program 27C128's in Windows. Fileprom.exe also programs the 27C128's, so that's what I use.

My computer is a Compaq laptop, with a non-editable BIOS. What it has is what I'm stuck with.

My advice is still: if you can't get Win_PP2.exe to work, use Fileprom.exe from DOS.

..."Not every problem has a solution"...

[This message has been edited by Sarkee (edited October 11, 2001).]

 

Sounds like it is worth a try to me. I will await this routine from you. I haven't checked my voltages yet but I'll let ya'll know if they are OK.

Thanks for the help Glenn, you continue to be the man.......

Also, if the program is too big for hotmail, you can send it to my other address:
pontiacgta@mediaone.net

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1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

[This message has been edited by Matt87GTA (edited October 11, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Matt87GTA (edited October 11, 2001).]

 

I ran my MAF vette with the 29C's loaded in the top half just fine. Using the DOS based version of Fileprom, I had to load a 32K FF bin in first and then load the 16K MAF bin in startign at 04000 to 07FFFF

I think that was already mentioned though.
Those chips can be a bear.

Jason

 

The silly thing is, I tried this method, and two 16k files combined to make a 3k file. Not 32k, but 3k. So I changed the start of the device to 4000 and it programmed and worked perfectly. *shrug*


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1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
317 RWHP, 418 RWTQ
13.23 @ 107.62 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Member: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

Very strange...Not WinME, was it? Also, no spaces between first file, + sign, and second file; then a space between second file and end file...

 

I'm still working on this problem but I tried to check my voltages and whatnot in FILEPROM by hitting '88' but nothing happened...... I have version 3.70..... Anyone know what's up with this?

Thanks,
Matt

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

Good news!! I have succesfully burned a few EEPROMS (again)! I ended up using Glenn's method of copying with a 00 bin (thanks again, Glenn ). I used a 00 16K bin for the front end and my ARAP-based 16k bin for the other end. I also decided that maybe something was wrong with the actual bin I was using before so I took a standard ARAP bin, loaded it into WinBin, and made all of the changes to it that I had on my previous one plus the new changes for the 30lb injectors. It worked perfectly. The car really likes having the right information about the injector size.... hehe..... runs a lot smoother..... Well, anyways, I am still working on some tweaks so I will update again if I have more problems.....

Thanks again to everyone who helped.....

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

Oh - I still haven't figured out the problem with the FILEPROM diagnostic information deal....... Anyone?

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

I haven't tried version 3.70 of FILEPROM. Option "88" was suppose to show you the voltage that you are using to burn. Worked on older versions of FILEPROM; maybe that option has been disabled.

I would talk to Xtronics to see if they can get the Windows Version to work on your computer. Initially, I could ONLY do things in FILEPROM but around Version 1.16 of the Windows Version, I could get that one to work.

I haven't tried version 1.30 of the Windows Version as version 1.21 (which I am using) works so well. My feeling, if it working fine, why mess with it.

I too had a Compaq and tried EVERY setting in the BIOS regarding power management and the parallel port as suggested by Xtronics. Only when version 1.16 came out could I get the Windows version to work. So I suspect it is a definite software problem.

PS: Matt, glad to see that you are now realizing how each eprom must be "custom suited" to your particular engine. It's amazing how 2 identical engines will behave differently with the identical BIN. This is why you HAVE to "tweak it" to your particular engine. You are going to be amazed with the results once you start "playing more". Spark Advance is a lot of fun and I probably have burnt more eproms optimizing Spark and the Knock Sensor than for ANYTHING else for my SD car. Once optimized, you'll be amazed on how well your engine performs. On my car, 2* of spark advance can be the difference between a "dog" and "knocking like crazy". There is a definite sweet spot with small chambered SBC heads. They don't like too much and they don't perform well with not enough. Again, every engine is different and needs to be optimized. I found around 28* with no knock retard was the best for my engine...just like Grumpy always said.

 

I ordered a pocket programmer2 today and was debating whether to order the eraser. Since I'm just jumping into this I have no idea how quickly I'll come up to speed. Should I just go ahead and order some flash proms and try to make it work with my '87 MAF? After reading this thread it makes me feel like I should start with the erasable 128K's and maybe have a better chance of stepping through it right the first time.

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'87 Formula WS6 - ZZ4 Crate TPI, SDPC ported heads, LT4 hot cam, 1.6RR, Accel runners, Accel lower, ported plenum, Edelbrock 58mm TB, Crane Fireball ignition, SLP cold air, SLP headers, !cat, Summit exhaust cutout, Walbro 255, Koni yellows, aftermarket panhard & LCA's.

 

There are a couple of stumbling blocks that make it a bit tricky to use the AT29C256 FLASH PROMS on the MAF cars, but I feel that it is well worth a little extra initial effort.

Once you figure out the proper method it is easy from there - in my experience. The FLASH PROMs are quicker to work with, as you don't have to erase for 15 minutes, and they will last for many many more re-burns than a standard EPROM. After about 15-20 re-burns on a standard EPROM it gets a bit lazy and requires longer and longer erase times. The FLASH PROMs can literally be re-burned thousands of times with no side effects.

As it has been described earlier in this thread - yes it can be a bit tricky sometimes, but this can also happen with standard EPROMs as well.

Also remember that the EPROM that is already in your car is erasable - so if you want to try a standard EPROM then you can use that one - but as for me I did not even bother to buy an eraser, so whenever I do a PROM, I just go straight to the FLASH PROM.
Just my $.02 worth.

------------------
Karl Hunter
Hunter Motorsports
Vancouver, B.C. CANADA

 

I am using Win_PP2 version 1.30 successfully with my Win98SE machine. I haven't tried it with my WinME machine.... These are my desktops that I am talking about. I never tried burning with my laptop.

Speaking of laptop; my old Toshiba laptop had a little.... uh-hmm..... 'accident' in the garage the other day. I was checking out a fresh iteration of my ARAP-based code and I had my laptop on the work bench with my ALDL interface cable running in through the open window of the car, while it was idleing, from the Com port to the ALDL, and, well........ lets just say that that is a recipe for tripping on the cable and sending the laptop flying...... and LCDs don't like being slammed into the ground.... So I am laptopless. **sigh** Once again, I am in need a cheap laptop to use for scantool duties. Unfortunately I am $$$$-less..... Just when I am getting going on my tuning too......

My tribulations continue.........

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1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club