What benefits would I get by diabling VATS?


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89Iroc, 305 TPI, WC T5, 3.08 Posi, Flowtech Headers, 3 inch over the axle, Flowmaster 80, Aluminium Driveshaft, Ported Plenum, Air Foil, K&N, AFPR, Smog/AC/Cat Delete, 3300lbs, All free mods

 

I 'think' that most of us that are disabling VATS are people who are using newer Code...aka...89 code...in our older cars...like my 87. I 'have' to disable VATS for the binfile to work with my car. If I already had VATS on my IROC and it was working fine...I wouldn't mess with it personally.



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GregF
87 IROC

 

It could be that people are putting newer computers in there car (even though I put a speed density computer in my car and retrofited the PassKey system, it wasn't that hard) but I see alot more people do it because they don't want to pay somebody to fix it, so they take the easy way out.

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If you live in Southeastern US, check us out!
South East Thirdgen

1987 Trans Am 305
14.88 @ 92.81

 

The less code you run the less likely for it to get fubar'd.
Simplicity is the key to design.

 

+

*werd*

~BB~

 

Vats is junk. It malfunctions more than it helps you.

I've recovered stolen vehicles with vats (I'm a reserve police officer). The car was hotwired, and vats went into some limp mode or something. In any event, it did not prevent the car from being stolen.

Yet, I hear from people all the time whos car won't start anymore cuz vats messed up.



-- Joe

 

Well hook me up with whoever is stealing these cars cause I just want mine to work.

~BB~

 

My car is 15 years old. VATS all the way, with not a single hiccup.

My car has been broken into 3 separate times in the 10 years I've owned it - steering column smashed all three times. Never been stolen.

Hotwiring doesn't get around the fact that the injectors don't fire. (even if they did, my car, as with every $6E and $8D I've had experiance with, in limp home mode *barely* runs - I can hit 25 MPH if I'm lucky.)

I wouldn't *ever* say VATS is junk.

And if you recovered VATS cars - there's about 90% chance that VATS was...

...disabled! (bypassed one way or another by the owner)

If you have VATS, keep it.

Cheers

 

THere is a malfunction mode for VATS (not limp home mode!!!). It will malfunction, and allow the car to be started and driven without any power loss.

I have a factory service manual at my house, I will scan in the page explaining it. From my observation, it appears vats fails in the normal operation of the owner, then a thief comes along and gets lucky.

I'm sure your vats works fine Mark, theres a million people with working vats systems. I just don't think its reliable for my car since its garaged.

-- Joe

 

it only happens if VATS fails WHILE THE CAR IS RUNNING..



but in anycase... VATS works.. plain and simple.



it is a EXTREMELY SIMPLE design.. its just that some people would rather remain ignorant and turn it off then learn how it works and fix it.


think about this. some VATS cars are 17 years old. the greater majority of them on the road still work with VATS. if it fails, you simply fix what broke (usually only some contacts) and then you can rely on it for the next 17 years.


its simple. but extremely effective. and if you dont have it, i can steal your car in under a min. same with any GM car with that column (100,000,000+ since the 70s)


Grumpy:
once VATS codes are set in the ECM, whats so hard about leaving them set?
every PROM you burn, you just dont change them..... what could be simipler then that!?

it has no effect unless the resistor (pellet in the key) isnt there.. so basicly, as long as the starter turns, the car will run the same with and without it..... how could it possibly fug with your code?!

 

I also have the factory service manual and have just gone through it reading the sections on VATS. I don't know which one anesthes has, but my manual mades no reference to a malfunction mode being available in the system. It does make a reference to the fact that the VATS will lock the system up if it reads the wrong code and will reset itself after a period of three to four minutes. This is not a malfunction mode, it is the normal operation of the system to prevent someone from stealing the car. There is a limp home mode built into the ECM, but it does not pertain to the VATS.

 

Yeah it goes in that mode if the car is running while it fails, and sometimes won't pull back out for 6 weeks. I've heard a ton of reports of it happening.

I used to (still do a little) buy 20-25 fbody's a year, strip 'em, and sell the parts. I've heard all kinds of stories of vats failures. Most of them leaving people stuck in the middle of nowhere.

But like I said, while working as an officer i've recovered a bunch of vats cars. It malfunctions..

BTW - professional car thiefs can get around passkey very quickly.
After hot wiring the ignition, the additional step is uplugging the passkey box, and plugging the bypass module in they brought with them:

Parts:
555 timer
16 pin DIP IC PC board
two 0.1 µF ceramic capacitors
1 µF electrolytic capacitor
3.9 K resistor
22 K resistor
100 Ohm resistor
14 Volt Zener diode
Plastic enclosure

How does this make you feel?

The mode is "fail enable", not "tamper".


-- Joe

 

GREAT! its fuggin AWSOME isnt it!?




i mean, before you only needed a hammer and pliers, or a screwdriver, pry off the left side of the column, yank the gear out and start her up..

now you need some electrical knowlage..... and the wires to connect it are tucked under the dash.

i didnt say it made it impossible to steal.. that would be ignorant.. besides, you left out the much more common method.. back a tow truck up to it and haul it off.




thing is 99% of the theves wont know how to do that. and wont take the time and effort to do that. so you dont get your car stolen... they may bust your column, but not start the car.



as for your personal experiance with it stuck off... well, luckily me and 1000s of other VATS owners dont have that problem... so we've eliminated 90% of the theves out there...

helps a hell of alot more then a car alarm.

 

btw, in what part of the country are truly professional theves stealing 15-17 year old fbodys?

 

I *have* to disable it. I don't have that functionality in my '82 Corvette..

Of course, I guess I could rig something up...

 

change out your lock cyl for one that has the two contacts for the VATS key

mount the box under the dash

wire the contacts, power and output to ECM.





not really a rig, more of a retrofit..... to rig somthing implys that you're halfassdoing it..... if you're neat about it, you could make it look factory

 

Hello Joe,

My manual doesn't make a reference to a VATS "FAIL" or "TAMPER" mode. Could you send me that information from your manual please. Also considering the location of the VATS module on our cars, it would seem to be a little time consuming for a theft to unplug it and plug his own module in. BTW, my manual is for the 89 models in case yours is a more updated book. Also, the VATS is only activated when the car is starting, it serves no purpose while the car is running. Therefore, if the car goes into the "limp home or fail enable" mode, it is not caused by VATS.

 

It makes me feel no different. Three times my car has seen attempted theft. Three times they have failed.

Seems to me that VATS has reduced the odds to my satisfaction.

Nothing is fool, tamper, or hack proof. Making it hard is the point. If my car is sitting next to a 1989 civic, the '89 civic will get broken into first, if only because its *easier* to steal.

If my car didn't have vats but had a "club" sitting on the wheel and was sitting next to the same car without a club... the car without the club is more likely to get stolen. Its one less step in the process.

The global question is "why disable VATS" to which there is only one or two simple replies:

1) if you're using new code on an old (non-VATS) car.
2) you're *actively* having problems with it (in which case I'd say fix it the right way).

 

To answer the question earlier about who steals 15-17 year old cars.. Not really anyone anymore, so it may be pointless either way. Looking at the average hotsheet, we're talking about 100 honda civics, a toyota or two. Hardly ever see GM's these days.

Keep in mind this system was run until '02 on the fbody's though..
My '98 truck however has the better passkey system. weird.

Mark, I have some questions off topic about your aldl code, how it works, etc.. When you get some time lemme know.


-- Joe

 

Exactly!

If they are smart enough to know how to get around VATS they are going to steal a car they can make more money off parts with. I see the only treat of someone trying to steal my car is some uneducated punks trying to have a fun joy ride and they won’t have a clue how to bypass vats.

Another why a car theft could bypass VATS is if they brought there own programmed memcal.

 

no.

takes too long to pull the ECM out.


with 2 people


one cracking the column the standard GM way, the 2nd person could pull the plastic bottom dash piece and break it off.... but i dont see them getting the ECM out and switching memcals... perhaps swapping ECMs, but even then, thats a b!tch




no.... niether of thoes are viable solutions... just take too long.

 

He would have to know precisely which mem-cal to have since each model has their own particular code to make them run properly. Gear ratio, TPI, TBI, 5.0, 5.7, 2.8. The time to pull the computer and change chips. He would have to be very determined.

 

Hey, MRDUDE_1,

A little O/T here, you going to make the classic car show at the beach this weekend? I've seen some really nice ones there today.

 

VIN would give you all that info.

myrtle beach?

nope... i just finished the T56 swap and put the 4.11 posi in..

this sat im going with the SCFYB lowcountry group to cooper dragway, and on sunday im going to finish cleaning out my garage... (expect to see some car stuff for sale. )

 

When most of the people you know with thirdgens have vats crap out on them every so often I think that goes beyond an isolated problem. The pellet and the contacts wear out. Ive lost track of how many times ive seen buddies of mine get in their thirdgen, turn the key and nothing happens. Wait 5 mins and try again and start up or sometimes still not start.

Off hand I can think of 4 seperate cars and I dont know much more than that many thirdgen owners in person.

just my 2 cents

 

i suppose that its a matter of perspective...

for example... if i have a waterpump fail, i go replace it the same day, takes me about 45mins and im done... i dont think anything of it

but a person new to the cooling system (n00b)might spend a weekend or longer doing it and have a major hassle.



so to me, the water pump and cooling system issues are no big deal, and to the n00b, its a huge ordeal.



if i get a problem with the VATS system, i go off fix it before i get stranded, and move on. no big deal to me.
i could understand though, to someone that doesnt understand how VATS works or how to troubleshoot a electrical system, this could be a issue...

matter of fact, someplace in my car, i keep a non VATS key hidden, and in another place, a specific resistor.

if i ever get a VATS issue, lets say the most common, improper resistance because of key or contacts, i can just jumper with the resistor and start..
or if i forget my key, i can grab my spare..... but it wont work if a theif finds it, unless he gets the resistor too, and knows where to put it.

 

Well, I guess as long as everyone is a mechanic, and keeps some parts hidden in their car to bypass it when it fails then all is well!

-- Joe

 

you dont have to be a mechanic.. you just have to know what to do.


and if you dont know how to fix somthing, then you have no grounds to stand on as far as complaining about how hard it is to fix... its only "hard" because you dont know.


as for keeping the parts hidden, they're there because im too lazy to get a real VATS backup key.. they're just there incase i lose my keys.
athough the resistor would work in a VATS pinch.....

 

do what i do... put a moates bin switcher in the car and keep a position or two empty (no calibration). in "shady" areas, switch to an empty bin.

i would say given all the things a thief has to look for, none (not even one of you) would probably think to look for that. And no, I don't mount the switch in an obvious location. ;-)


Joe - email me your questions (or put them on my message board).

 

Yeah, with 16 programs available to me, it'd be easy to have a "safe" mode... Then, if somebody breaks in, they not only have vats to overcome, but if they somehow manage that, the computer won't run the car!

 

I used to pull the whole memcal out and stick it in my pocket, or hide it somewhere when I used the car.. (like actually drove it places..)

Nowadays, I use it hardly ever, mainly just work and back on really nice days. And I don't swet parking it, cuz of the police sticker on the window.

-- Joe

 

There is no great amount of vats failures. If it was my car I would disable it though. One less thing to go wrong.

two reasons to disable vats,

1. running newer code in older car(duh)
2. have the ability to make cheap copies of your key/no need for costly vats key.