I am currently taking care of 3 Formula 3000 holden's racing vintage in the US and am in need of 2 ECM's programed that will work in these cars....one of the ECM's was destroyed so that car is done until I find a replacement....the original ECM's were the austrailian 1227808 of which I have located 2 recondition units....the problem is the with programming of the memcal....I have ordered all the hardware and adapters to program the memcals and when that arrives I am going to get the tunercat software so I am able to program the units myself with changes so I am not stuck running the original parts as some of them are not available anymore (cams)....is it possible to copy one of the original good memcals so I can get one more to install in third ECM to get this car back running?.....I have been in the racing business for 29 years but this is my first attempt at the electronic side so my learning curve is going to be steep to start......any help in getting me going in the right direction will be greatly appreciated.....Thanks B-lou

 

A while back, I beleive people were running the '808 SD code on the '165 MAF ECM from 86-89 F-bodies & Vettes (plus some other cars like late 80s S-10s with the 2.5 4-cyl.

Do a search on "808" on the DIY Prom Board and look for a post that talks about running 808 SD code on a 165 ECM. Then you can investigate the possibility of converting to a 165 ECM. There will be some "wiring changes" needed, but that shouldn't be too hard to figure out either.

Just throwing out a "North American" ECM solution for you.

 

GR....thanks for the reply.....one of the things that I have to try to do is keep these cars and ecm's original....there is about 12 of these cars currently running in the states and working ECM's are becoming a problem so if I can find a way to program the memcal that come in the 808's that I have located then all the issues would be solved.....the only issue that I am worried about is that I can find the proper definition file to program the memcal.......some of the cars have been forced to go with the motec unit and while it is a fine product it is very expensive to buy and install......hopefully when the programmer arrives someone can help me find the correct files to program the original memcals that come in the 808....Thanks B-lou

 

Might try the folks at KalMaker. They're an Aussie company.

The 165, and 808 are the same ecm, for all practical purposes. I beleive there is a one chip difference internally.

 

If you currently have a memcal for your 808, then just copy the bin and you'll never lose it. If you don't have a memcal, post the details of your car and maybe someone can tell you the BCC of your car.

Again, do a search on "808" on the DIY Prom Board, and you will find a lot of info - maybe even a bin.

 

You guys on this board really know your stuff and I am in the first stages of learning so you are gonna have to bear with me a little bit....GR yes I do have a original working memcal that I can copy....(I was not sure that I could copy it)..........I am in the process of searching this board for more info of which I am finding all kinds.......Also I have already been contacted by a guy via PM about the exact ecm with documentation......best thing that I have done was sign up for this forum....again Thanks for all the responses

 

Welcome to TGO. It's is a pretty good place. I also think DIY Prom is one of the best places for information on tuning OBD 1 GM ECMs (regardless of platform). We have some of the most knowledgeable people (like Bruce/Grumpy) that frequent here.

Don't get intimidated by the information. There's an initial learning curve due to amount of material you initally need to read. And, sometimes, you need to read it a couple of times before it even makes sense. But eventually it will all come together, and realize it's a lot easier than you ever imagined.

The toughest part is the "technical vocabulary" for some people. Or, sometimes, you just need some extra clarification. Sometimes a simple "search" on the DIY Prom may get you your answer. If not, just post your question and someone will jump in and try and help.

 

Here is a link to many of the 808 ($5D) .bin files. Reading the label of the original ecm or the silver sticker inside the memcal on the prom chip will tell which one to use

ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/bin_...27808%20%205D/

 

I have found out more info in one evening by posting a question here than I have in 2 weeks elsewhere.......What I have found is this.....these cars use a stock 1227808 ecm with a reprogramed memcal using the $5d file......should not be a problem copying the original file of a good memcal onto another memcal giving me another complete working ecm. So if I continue to learn about all this eventually I will be able to reprogram the proms myself to suit any changes made internally in the engines...I am looking forward to the challange.......Thanks B-lou

 

B-lou,
although the code in the Formula Holden is very similar to the $5d used in production cars it's definately not the same.
The FH had an external mixture adjustment trimpots/resistors, a soft rev limiter and different ALDL stream. There are also a few extra calibration locations that relate to these differences.
Cheers,
Adrian

 

I have got a good start on figuring out these Holden ECM's but one thing that I will have to do in the future is figure out a way to datalog....the problem is the wiring harness has no provision for a aldl connector.....I am sure a wiring adapter can be made I just have to figure out how...any ideas??.....Thanks B-lou

 

B-lou,
these cars did have a diagnostic connector and was required my CAMS (Australian motor sport authority) as was mentioned in the CAMS manual.

(iv) the ECM Diagnostic Connector must be mounted on the left-hand side of the car at the base of the roll over bar and must be readily accessible for use by scrutineers.

The connector probably doesn't look like an ALDL connector to you as GM in Australia used a different style 6 pin plug on the VN & VP Commodore.



If you look on the Techedge site where this image came from it has some good information relating to your application

The problem you'll run into is tht these ECMs have a data rate of 160baud so you'll only get about 1 sample every second, you really need some external type of data acquisition device to log the sensor outputs.

Cheers,
Adrian

 

Just shows how little I know about these cars but learning fast.......at least I now know what that 6 pin connector is for now.......Thanks B-lou

 

How much so you want to spend?.

One answer is just piggy backing a later ecm, and sharing inputs (other then temp senders).
Tech trivia, temp sensors change pull-up resistor values, to expand their range. So you probably will run into issues trying to share those senders between ecms.

If however you want to use a Wide Band, for tuning, then the Innovative LM-1 allows for 5 channels of data logging.

 

Maybe combined logging of temp from the slow data stream and rapidly changing parameters like MAP and RPM directly might do the job.

 

First thing I have to do is get the memcals copied and and couple extra 808's....I am confident that is now accomplished.....next is I have to come up with a AU 6pin to usb aldl cable so I can plug in my laptop while car is running just to make sure all senders sensors etc are operating properly.....then I think if I can come up with a 1227165 ECM (faster data stream) and install it along with the proper memcal then I can do the data logging off of it and when done just replace it back with the 808.....The 7165 would be mine and used just for datalogging.....of course this will only work if the pinouts on the 2 ecm's are the same.....The next issue I will face is what do I use to install in the car to log the data?....Having a laptop with me sitting on the sidepod of a formula race car logging data AINT gonna happen....So I have to find something to record the data while running then load the data to my laptop then read it.....this is stuff that I want to do down the road and am only going to take one step at a time so I do not get overwhelmed....Thanks for all the ideas so far .....B-lou

 

There are always '808's on ebay.com.au and they're not expensive (always under AUD100). The '808 and '165 have the same plugs, but the pinouts are governed by the code on the memcal. If you want faster ALDL, and you only want the same size ECM, you need a 16183082, which has got the U2 chip that Grumpy noted was missing in the '808 and so will do 8192 baud.

The 16183082 is pretty rare though, but they have the more reliable board and they do bring much more money. For a racecar, I'd be putting one of these in and using EFI Live to scan it.

If you use an '808, there's Winaldl to scan it, but the 160 baud issue as you can see above.

John

 

Adrian, you must have spent a long time fishing around in the dumpster outside Fisherman's Bend .

John

 

Try looking under the driver's knees.
There's no real need to get too fancy, since your just going to be datalogging for set-ups, and not while racing. IMO, you don't want to preoccupy the driver with thinking about anything other then racing.

 

The Formula Holden class did use the 808 ECU, however it was not with $5D code (I seem to recall $FB or similar).
The 808 is identical to the 165 except for the lack of 8192 baud UART chip. The 165's PCB's will fit in your 808 case fine, and function exactly the same as the 808 it replaces.

I would love to get hold of the code from one of these, as I lost mine a couple of years ago when my laptop died

I will see what information I still have on these things.

Cheers
Wafer

 

The Formula Holden used modified $5D code and if you look at the binaries they still have $5D in the mask ID field. As it was never released with a production vehicle I figure they didn't bother putting it through the GM system.
Adrian