where did my thread go...it was not breaking any rules

 

Sorry, but DIY Prom is for people who want to learn & do eproms themselves. It is NOT for you to gather a bunch of info to give to a custom eprom tuner. If he's good, he doesn't need our help.

Bye.

 

But to show you that I am not being unfair, I am adding a poll to let the members vote on this issue. The poll will run for one week and expire April 22/2007

If the majority of the members (50+%) vote YES to the allowing posts that benefit custom eprom writers to exist on DIY Prom, I'll resurrect your post AND all future posts that are for the benefit of custom eprom writers will then be permitted.

However, if the majority vote NO; then your post will remain deleted and all posts that are for the benefit of custom eprom writers will continue to not be permitted on DIY Prom.

I will not vote on this poll except to cast a final vote in the unlikely event of a tie.

Let democracy reign supreme and we'll see what the members say over the next 7 days.

 

No!

They dont contribute 99% of the time and the work people put out here isnt for profit so I do not think it should be allowed.

later
Jeremy

 

I am with Jeremy.

FWIW,

I will also add that I don't enjoy people profiting off of DIY'rs research, ideas, and tuning.

I don't mind helping DIY guys at all though.

 

I voted NO also.

jms

 

Sorry, But i voted "no" as well...Just wanted to say i have just started to "burn" my own Proms, it is not very hard at all, tho i must say it can look very "over the top " to someone who is just starting out and there are a lot of people here who will help you out, there is a ton of info here just search get the equip and help is just a few key strokes away. I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but it is my 2C.....GTA

 

I'm on the fence about this.

I have a problem with mail order bins (pcmforless) for example, that claim they can tune a car from 3,000 miles away, and brainwash enough people into actually sticking up for them.

But I feel a little differently about the local guy who owns a shop. Most of those small time local guys started out as a hobby, and the dream was to one day own a shop and make enough money to get by doing what they love.


I think the information in this board should have the GPL applied to it. Basically saying, 'you can use anything you want here, as long as if you modify and redistribute it, you make a copy available for all to see'.

I also have some moral objections to the way posts are locked on this site a s a whole. It seems every time I search for something good, and find a post asking it or discussing it, it's locked before someone could answer.



I dunno.. I'm going to have to vote yes.

-- Joe

 

If it even in the least results in a disincentive for our resident experts to help the rest of tune our cars (and Lord knows I've learned A LOT on this site) then I'm against people attempting to profit off this site.

 

well you know you guys...i am not doing this for someone else to make movie...i am doing this so my car will get better gas mileage and run correctly...the sooner i get more info the better the car will run...without help i am sure the motor will get ****ed up and end up as trash,....to me atm this sort of an emergency to get this issue fixed..the more i can help this guy understand things about this type of set up the more he can also help others out there in my area with cars like thirdgens that need tuning....you dont wanna help me...thats fine...i am not going to be butt hurt over it but just remember down the road you turned down a person who loves to learn and would be a possible asset info wise...if i recall i remember this website was for learning and helping......i've been on this site for over 8 yrs and have helped alot of people with questions they asked...and so you know...i am not getting software and equipment for no reason...i do actually wanna learn more about this stuff





and i bet when you sell parts on this site you sell it for EXACTLY what its worth and dont try to make a few bucks...no one is making a profit off of this site...i went to this guy for help so i could get this car fixed...i was going to tear the whole motor down and put it back to stock....why if i can get it tuned to work better than the car's original program?

 

i learned what i know about chip tuning from this site. i am a firm believer in trying to give something back here.
you can't stop people who tune for money from coming here & reading the stickies & asking questions, but i feel its not right they make a profit from the work others have done for free.
i vote NO.

 

you know...its not about making someone some money...i am trying to get a guy to help me learn this stuff in real time so i can try to save a neglected car ...pretty much the only money he is getting from me is dyno time and parts...i AM GOING TO BE DOING THE DATA LOGGING AND WORK on the car...i need him to go over what i did , help me understand more about things and burn me the chip...this guy is extremely busy considering he is the only person with a awd dyno and he does alot of expensive cars and high powered cars...whats wrong with that?...he isnt the type of person that is out for money...he is a car guy like us.....he is working on a 2000 camaro with a built 428 w/ a 118mm turbo....i've never worked with efi before this car and if i can get help from a guy that can tune cars like a ford gtx1....if you dont know what that is is a ford gt with a hopped up already motor and a tap cut off...they are built in green bay wi...i have never received so my **** on this site ever...i am willing to bet you would take all of your time to ride around with me and burn a chip for my car and not expect something in return...

 

I'm on the fence, too.

If it's a small guy who doesn't take mail order stuff, and doesn't sell a DIY derived product in any mass quantity, I'm OK with him or her learning some here, and discussing problems and CONTRIBUTING as well. As long as they don't advertise their stuff to more than just a local crowd.

If it's a "brand" named company, or taking mail order stuff publicly, or is producing something without freely offering the schematic and software to this board, they shouldn't try to solve their problems here. They can feel free to offer solutions, hints, or explanations to problems all they want though.

I'm not very strongly opinionated on this topic though.

 

its a small shop run by my friend...him and his brother....and this would be for local f body/vette/firebird people that wanted to mod their cars and dont like mail order crap...i have stayed away from these cars because no one around me knew anything about these computers...so i stayed carb....its not big deal to me really...it would take me 2 hours to convert this car to run a carb on it and sell the tpi on here and make a "profit"

 

The DIY board is what they are referring to. Not thirdgen.org. Profit all you want on the classifieds as long as you're not a business (or whatever the rules say), although you won't find many customers willing to pay more than what a used part is worth. Most people, including myself, look for real bargains only on that board.

 

i am not here to make a buck or make my friend a buck...i am here to help my friend to better understand my car and help me learn how to use my software and get it running better...

 

Uhhh.... I don't sell parts on this site.

 

I'm not actually referring to you, Black84. I think it's fine for you to ask questions on the site as you learn this EFI stuff. I'm not a moderator, so I don't care who is asking the questions. I'm not one of the original DIY guys either, so I don't have a lot of personal original research in GM efi. I like to help when I can. I like to learn even more.

 

yay?



well you know....the car will run better with this sites help or not...if i dont get help i will be more than happy to point that out to any new person i meet with a third gen...i think this poll is sort of childish actually...mine as well close it...people are acting like i am trying to steal some top secret info or something

 

Uh, maybe the name of this section isn't clear. It's a board for a hobby - playing with car computers.

People on the board generally both take and contribute info to further that hobby. It's something
they do because it amuses them. When it's no longer amusing, they'll cease posting here. Helping
a commercial shop that's too lazy to do the work themselves doesn't strike me as a very amusing
way to spend my personal time, but that's just me.

And while I'm on the subject, as I see it:

Repairing a 20+ year-old-car isn't an 'emergency'. Learning about 20+ year old computers isn't an
'emergency' either. Someone who gets paid to fix your old car isn't doing it as a hobby.


The people who can answer questions here do it because they enjoy the hobby. You aren't in a position
to force them to help fix your car, and whining about how 'unfair' life is doesn't really help. They used
their time to learn the subject matter - you didn't.

If you want to learn, nobody will hinder you. Try doing more reading and less complaining.

As a general observation, using the words 'Please' and 'Thanks' will generate more helpful info than
having a public hissy-fit. Using punctuation and spell-check never harmed anyone's case either.

Have fun.

 

wow...hey thanks man...well here is the deal...i was laid off while i was trying to get this car running right...i go to work tomorrow and i do drive 80 miles round trip...so guess what...yes its an emergency...to me at least...


as for the guy fixing my car is more of a hobbyist car guy than you'd ever be...he has built and helped more people with their cars than you'd know...he has a 700+whp eagle talon and have done more awesome **** then you'd know or understand...he is a good friend and thats why i am trying to make it easier on both of us to learn about this to get it corrected the first time...i guess thats too hard to comprehend...


and just for some info i've been on this site for over 8 yrs giving other people help and never really asked for anything back...so i guess i was wanting my turn to get some help and take what i did give...but its people like you that have to toss up the "*******" forum **** and act like a ****...thats fine....dont get your ****** in an uproar..



grimreaper...go ahead and close this thread...i dont need your people's help....i will figure this out for myself...**** this site

 

I'm glad you posted this, because this is what I do. I got involved in prom burning after putting an LT4 HOT cam in my engine in 2001 and discovering it would idle extremely rich. Eyes burning rich. I took it to a guy who charges $500 to tune it, and since he was a friend of my dad's, he showed us how to do it ourselves. We purchased the equipment (prom burner, flash chips, TunerCat, Ostrich, wide band O2) and have been tuning other SoCal club member's cars ever since. My dad is a mechanic and I do chip tuning on Saturdays at his place for a little side money. I dont do any mail-order as I too dont see how anyone can tune a car correctly across the internet.
I wish I had more info to contribute to this forum, but I'm only able to read it once a day in the evenings after work. I'm also on the West Coast. By that time, everyone else with knowledge has posted the answer. If not, I'll help out where I can.

 

black84z28-4spd, i think you misunderstand me or i didn't word it right.
my understanding of the poll is for a company to come here asking for help.

like Grim said, if the guy your going to does chip tuning on other cars, then doing a thirdgen shouldn't be too big a deal outside of the software.
i have no problem with someone trying to get their car running right.
i have no problem with you posting up a log & asking for help with what to do to the tune.
what Kevin91Z is doing i think is ok.
i feel the dyno is for WOT tuning, not part throttle.
you can data log part throttle with a 5~10 mile drive & make changes you think it needs & do another log. a wideband is best to use, but you can get it close with a good narrow band O2.
there are plenty of people here willing to help you get your car running right, look the the thread by Blazin4x4, he doesn't even have a thirdgen & is getting help with his tune.

that said, i work on cars everyday for a living. i have never asked for help on a customers car on this site.

if you lived down here & asked me for help with your tune, i would do what i could on a weekend im free, i would maybe expect lunch & a coke or 2 if it was an all day job.
i have helped one of the local guys here with some chip work, it was about a 40 mile drive one way for me. i removed VATS from the chip & then helped him get the car running

 

people like you would be cool if you lived near me....i dont know of many people that have efi powered third gens....thanks

 

I don't feel you have the right or the ability to judge what is an 'emergency' that effects another person.

I also don't think he is having a public hissy fit. The moderator locked his thread, then had second thoughts and decided to post a poll for the members to vote. The original poster is stating his side of the story. And like every other thread around here, people (you) are starting to attack.

-- Joe

 

I don't see a problem with Black84 asking for help here to pass along to the guy helping him with his tune. I do not think that is exploiting this forum for profit.

Many of the best resources on this site are involve with working on cars professionally or are selling tuning equipment to help the rest of us tune our cars. As long as they are not using this forum to advertise their equipment or services, I have no problem with it and would hate to lose their expertise.

Al

 

If anyone thinks there is a whole lot of secret info on this site they are sadly mistaken. That mess of stickies is just that a mess. It is full of contradictory and outdated info. There is not a large market for tunning these outdated ECM's.

No one is forced to answer any questions so no one is giving away their secrets if they don't want to. My opinion is, let anyone who wants info on these 25 year old systems, should be allowed to ask. If you don't want to answer, don't. What is the harm in asking?

 

I can judge anything I care to. And in my judgment:

If you've modified your only car without having any clear idea of how to
make it work, it's not an emergency - it's a lack of planning. I can't see where
that responsibility falls on this board at all. Waving the B.S. flag at the board
isn't the way to ask for a favor in any case, if you did forget something.

These computers have been around for 20 years - waiting until the day before
you need one only to discover you don't know anything about them - seems like
a poor use of your time. And, this board has been running for 6 years that I
can remember - if you didn't read it in all that time, it's not the board's job to
provide an overnight crash course.

If you are paying someone to fix your car that specializes in Talons (and you
don't drive a Talon)- that just seems like another unfortunate decision.


There was a reason commercial tuners are excluded from the DIY board -
that reason is, commercial tuners don't share their code work in return. If you
want an example, look at the Tuning boards at CF, they've had no restrictions
from day one. By all means report back with all the threads you find that give
specific code hacks.


In my opinion, the people who do the heavy code lifting here don't do it to
support commercial shops without receiving anything in return. You can be
as democratic as you like, and dismiss the work that has gone into the board,
but when the code people and controls engineers stop posting - who do you
plan to ask for help? Remember the part about planning ahead...

That is my judgment. YMMV

Bye, and good luck.

 

well well...well here is my judgement of you...you're rather ignorant...


i bought this car knowing it was modded....tuning the car was in the plans but we ran into a few issues of not having the correct parts to tune the car or it would have been started on/finished...the car has been already put on a dyno to see what its doing for power and to see where the a/f mixture is...the tuner has never touched a 7730 nor any other ob1 ecm from these cars...i thought it would have been helpful to get him some updated info to better understand and help him get the car don faster...he has a chip burner and emulating parts...so saying i modified the car myself is a complete failure to be an ******* to me...so pretty much you didn't read anything in posted in my posts...try doing that so you dont look like an ***...



as for the "talon" comment....well you know what....here are some cars he has tuned/built...a ford gtx1.....know what that is?....i bet not...a 550rwhp 20b powered 95 rx7,a 2000 camaro with a goodwin performance built 427/118mm garret turbo,helped get my friends 2000 z28 to trap 128mph with a cam, stock ported heads and nitrous,his car alone being a 2 liter that traps 137mph....there is a sti in his shop that is being built to hit 9s...lot of fast ****....plus being he is aem certified...they dont hand that out to anyone....so tell me....what have you done?????..so saying that was just another stupid example of ignorance on your behalf....


i am sure my friend would be more than happy to share codes and even show people how to do things...he has done it in the past and will continue to be a very good person in the car field itself....he also has some things designed for the sbc we all love...


he is not a commercial tuner...he does not sell mail order tunes...everything is done in shop and thats where my car will be
----------
no...he doesn't because he doesn't even know the whole truth about what is going on with the car and how i aquired the car...i never did any of the work on the car...i was talked out of carbing it from my friends because i was going to either do that or stock cam it

 

As far as i'm concerned, my mind was made up when I asked a simple question that could have been responded to by any number of dyno shops that haunt the board.

simply... What is a good sequence to use on a dyno when setting up a tune?
The response was a resounding NOTHING, not 1 response.

Therefore my answer is NO.

If you want to do it yourself on the dyno, I'll help you if I can.
Will I willingly help the dyno shop tune your car, NO.
When information begins to go both ways I'll rethink my position.
Sorry to be so blunt but this seems to be a one way street.
Jp

 

yes, we all have dynometers ...i'll just carb the car...problem solved like i said...i own a thirdgen, i come to a thirdgen site to get some help and ideas and get turned down....oh well...my life will go on...

 

I only wish this was as black and white as some people would like to think. I am a co-owner of a local shop. My goal has been and continues to be to turn a hobby into a career and provide a helpful service to others who love cars.

We own a steady state dyno that allows us to tune both part throttle and WOT in a safe environment. We offer to rent the dyno to anyone at a very reasonable rate so they can tune their own car. In the sprit of DYI EFI, we love to help and really enjoy the tuning experience with our customers and friends. If I could do if for “free” I would. But we have big $$$ overhead to pay for every month to provide this service and in many cases I end up loosing money anyway.

Just because some people have taken a risk to turn a hobby into a way of life, don’t beat them all up for it. Are their crooks out there??? YES. Are they really getting rich off this site…I don't think so.

If I did not love it, I would not waste my free time on these sites, because it is not making me any money to be here. This is a public internet forum and people are posting their knowledge under free will. Not all the knowledge is accurate or correct but there are some really good people on here that know what they are doing.

As far as modified EFI cars, don’t discount the tuning accuracy, safety and overall benefits of an accurate load cell chassis dyno. If you don’t believe me, then look up a local EFI101 class and attend. I only can hope you all can find a good local dyno shop willing to work with you to get your ride up to speed when needed.

JPSS86,
Sorry no one got back to you on the dyno tuning question. I would be glad to start a post to outline how we tune using our dyno as long as people don’t attack me for thinking I am trying to “sell my local services on an internet forum”
Thanks,
NT

 

I think I understand the intent and theory of the concept being discussed here, but I'd like to see some proposals of exactly how a "professional" tuner is going to be kept from reading the threads, archives, and FAQs and how those tuners are going to be prevented from taking that knowledge away from here.

If you really want to pick nits, shouldn't we ALL be paying royalties to GM Powertrain Division every time we use a basic GM program and modify it to suit out needs? After all, it WAS their work originally. Just exactly who is taking from whom in this case?

If someone posts that they are working on a customer's program and wants help, members can simply choose to ignore the thread. Who is really to say that any of us are not doing this for some personal gain, whether monetary or not?

Somewhere out there behind all those trees is a big forest.

As for the vote, it's good to be living in a republic instead of a plain democracy.

 

my $.02? i think the 'nose out of jointedness' of this whole conversation has to do with the 'give me the info and i'll give it to this other guy' thing. your tuner wants to learn about tuning our cars? sure thing.

step 1 - read the stickies! the info freely given on this and one or two other boards on this site are what justify my putting up with the signal to noise ratio on most of the rest of it! there's a master's thesis worth of info there if you just go find it!

step 2 - got a specific question?

step 3 - still haven't found your answer? give some background and ask a serious and informed question. crap, i've even been able to help answer a couple of questions here and i'm still a total newbie!

so i voted no. not because i don't think that people shouldn't be able to apply the knowledge that they gain here for their own use, but because this request and a number of other recent ones add nothing to what is already here.

 

well...i guess all crs and troubles are the same so i guess my report back on what i did with the car would never be anything of a value with learning about how this stuff works...i am glad we are all close minded

 

'84 - Attitude will not help your cause. Even if you were to post again, I doubt many people (after reading this) would feel like dealing with yours.

You could apologize for it. I know I won't post anything else in your direction without one. I'm thinking a lot of the other experienced guys feel about the same.

 

apologize?......i came onto a thirdgen site to fix my thirdgen thinking other thirdgen owners would help me out like i did in the past...you know what...for the people giving me ****.....**** them....i hope they get the same treatment down the road from somone else to see where i am coming from...oh well...no one wants to give me a hand on something i am very new too....i'll live....ill just carb the car and enjoy it having more power

 

I think the request '84 made for help was fine. I even voted yes. However his continous bad attitude and bashing should probably get him

 

lol...ban me....its not like there isn't other places online to get info....you guys act like i owe you for something which i do not because for the last how many yrs i have been on this site i helped numerous people with issues and never asked for one damn thing...if they are going to ban me...they will ban me but word of mouth is always always something i live by...i have asked the mod to close this because i dont care about who can help me anymore...i'll carb the damn car and you guys can keep your info...i dont need it....kthanxbye

 

CGTMS, Thank you for having the guts to post a reply .
I'm sure your offer to help is genuine but I just have a bad taste from no responses. I'm sure someone in all the views could have offered some help.
I will probably bring that post back to life after I rebuild my tranny this spring.
I wouldn't mind helping shops if there was something in it for us normal guys trying to save a buck by just renting the dyno time. It would probably make more money for you when I come back ten times and pay for more time on the rack rather than paying $500 once and then having you spend the next 6 month listening to me talk about drivability issues. Not sure if that's the common case or not. Just guessing.

Black 'Z,
You haven't even stated what is not right with your current tune or situation. Just asking for better milage and running from a stock setup is just a tune up question and checking sensor conditions.
People here are expecting to be informed of some particulars when asked about specific applications.
84 Z28 is it?
auto manual ?
stock motor?
ECM # ?
mask id ?
modified bin already?
overall condition of the system?

People here are looking for VE/MAF table correction issues, injector/compression change, cam change, intake/exhast changes. These things require more involved tuning and "reading" what is happening with the drivetrain.
I don't know what to tell you even if I tried to help. Redngold is correct about throwing an attitude at this point. It's not helping you.

If you want to go carb that's your choice, don't blame anyone here. (make sure you buy some jets, power valves, pump cams, and some good reusable gaskets, lots of plugs and hand cleaner too)
Jp

 

its a 91 z28 305 tpi 5spd car with a unknown cam...i would have gotten a mail order tune but i also got in my head it would be fun to learn how to tune these cars too....what a lot of people dont understand is i wanted some ideas on this obd1 set up for this car...it wasn't so bad and not an emergency but i was called back to work and 80 miles round trip in a car that isn't running ok sorta blows...plus she is a gas pig from a car that should get 26mph when running correct...some of these people think i am just looking for answers so i can have someone learn from it so my car can get tuned...i actually do wanna learn more about tuning seeing as i did by tuning software and its installed on my laptop and i have parts to run an emulator on my ecm...right away people wanna jump my case thinking i am trying to make someone money off others...the only info on the cam is it has a noticeable lope at idle and she runs rich and only triggers the ses light on the highway...other wise it runs ok while at operating temp


i never had trouble getting a car to run good with a carb....never fouled out the plugs either...always went great for me...




i only give attitude when given to me...

 

The ECM is the 7730, the code is 8D, and there are several possible broadcast codes (calibrations or Bins).

The lumpiness when the car is cold is due to the fact the VE tables are overly rich at idle due to the increased MAP reading due to the cam.

The timing is almost surely retarded at idle with a larger cam as well, due to the fact the MAP reading is higher.

You need to get a nice good log of what is going on, before anyone can help you with the problems you are experiencing.

I am a service advisor by profession. If the problem is unknown, I can not help fix it.

 

i was setting up my tuning software and i know about the ecm and which one i have...i know about the 8d code...its the broadcast code i can't find ....


th cam is lopey as hell at idle too when its at opertaing temp...it is starting to pop at idle now...the car extremely hate 93 octane gas...runs worse...base timing should be 6degrees i believe...on these newer cars is there a wire to disconnect to get base timing so the computer is not playing in the equation...

i am waiting to get some cables so i can data log the car...just have to wait for payday

 

the broadcast code should be on the stock chip, once you have the code you should be able to find the bin here,

ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/bin_...%205.0%205.7s/

i have read here that sometimes people use the bin for a 350 TPI & just correct the motor & injector size to use it on a 305 & go from there. if you want to try that, you need the AUJP bin.

 

vern mentioned a bin from that site and i downloaded the current 305tpi one

 

Being a standard transmission, he does not want to use AUJP. The IAC calibrations are for an automatic trans.

 

This post was made to take a poll on the subject of allowing posts that benefit eprom tuners (who will never post on DIY Prom). Please keep the post "on topic". All further "off topic" posts will be removed.

 

This site is a gold mine that has attracted a lot of highly skilled and knowledgeable people that feel very strongly about their cars, but it's a nerve-wrecking experience to post any questions here. Step ever so slightly outside of the narrow path and you are forever doomed.. So make sure you have a nice car with nice mod's and can spell correctly. I'm at a loss of words to describe the pettiness I see around here.. Now, who is to judge who will be of help to the community.. I can think of one or two people on this board that seemed to start out quite blank, gathered knowledge, made it a business, but continue to contribute. I don't mind sharing my own hard earned knowledge to anyone who could use it, professionally or not. If there's a market for it then fine, but the info will also be for free on the boards for whoever is able to understand it and make use of it. Ttt.
I think the reactions to the original poster is a storm in a glass of water or however the saying goes, & I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm ever so slightly wrong on anything.

 

Everyone on here is opinionated, like it or not.

We wouldnt be here or wasting our time tuning if good enough works for you. This board is for people who like to do it right the first time, or learn how to do it.

People with bad attitudes are neither welcome or wanted.

There are many contributors who do side work here and a couple like Moates or Rbob, both deal in some type of tuning systems and services.

I DO NOT have a problem with anyone who contributes, but there are quite a few tuners who basically came from this board and are no where near the "geniuses" people make them out to believe. The old timers or folks here who have a lot of industry type connections know this. Also several copyrighted ideas have been outright stolen from people who contribute here as well.

We try to keep that to a minimum because this site was made, created and promoted and is the best information for obd1 GM ecm's on the net, bar none.

Right in the board link, it says this board is not for profit, prom begging, etc. If u do not show the will to learn on your own, most people here will not waste their time with you.

Furthermore, asking for bins and years used, etc or what are my choices for the stock broadcast code is more than covered in our "antiquated" stickies. As are most of the basic questions.

If there is a site on the net you could get all this information from, I would strongly suggest that u go there instead. Also I would seriously love to see a few links, since any other obd1 tuning board links to us and recommends our site.

I am not the "tech" mod here, that is Rbob's realm and to a lesser extent Grim Reaper, I organize most of the information and help out others members where I can. I can do codework and follow a hac to find what I need. Anyone who PM's me or posts that has seemed to try and find the answer, I help each and every time that I can.

Without "CONTRIBUTING" members we wont find new info or make code changes etc. To me that says we need to follow and use the majority rules method to continue our growth and further the board. If someone doesnt like that, its a free world, u dont have to be here.

Post replies that have multiple ****** and #$%^#**** in them shows how one truly is and why should they deserve our help? Everyone has bad days, but consistent use is sure to put u on a long and lonely path.

I have made many friends on this board and made just as many connections thru it. When I have issues, its a really good feeling when I can pick up the phone and call someone I met thru here. It took me quite awhile and alot of time to get where I am now. I have untold hours on the phone with people explaning how to read code with me or how to do a certain type patch, etc.

I thank them profusely for this as it has allowed me to accomplish more and faster.

As a bonus, whenever stuff like this comes up, people who contribute little or next to nothing(or none)at all are always more than welcome to contribute now. Its a consistent pattern.

later
Jeremy

 

wow this was all handled just wrong.. if the original original poster had just gone to the small shop, that, from my understanding, allready tunes cars, gotten a rough tune to get started he would be in the same boat as any other person who refers to this board for info and help, however it turned into a "corporate" issue in that the free time and progress made on this board would have been used by someone who would reap the benefits of said progress without a contribution back to the community. they say tact is the ability to make a point without making an enemy, im going to attempt to use some tact here.
regardless of individual members situations or feelings, we are either a free and open forum that offers information to any who ask for it reasonably, or we are a private organization that has the right to keep our work our own, the problem being that the idea of a forum is a free resource and place to share ideas on the subject.

most of us and especially myself, have taken more then we have given on these boards, i'd say 80% of us feed off of the other 20% to get everything done around here. think about it, we all know which members on each board are the guru's, rbob, fast355,apeirion,madmax,etc etc, they are the pioneers that graciously share their own progress with us.

i vote yes let em do what they want, members don't have to reply if they don't want to, and everything else on this board has been open to anyone who wanted to look at it anyways, registered or not so it should'nt be an issue. if anybody has an problem with their work being used for someone else's profit, they ought to copyright their work.