Having a hard time getting this right at WOT
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
From: Vineland, NJ
Car: 1987 IROC-Z
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Having a hard time getting this right at WOT
My setup is as follows: 87 350 TPI, ported plenum, descreened MAF, 24# SVO injectors, LT4 Hotcam, Vortec heads, stock ignition (5 degrees advanced), hooker 1 5/8 headers, 3" cutout pre-cat, hooker catback. 3000 stall, 3.42 gears.
I have TunerProRT, and originally used ARAP as a starting bin. Driveability/Startup seem to be fine, its WOT where I am having trouble. At WOT my MAF never maxes out, it reads roughly 200-220 gm/s tops, mainly falling under that. Does this have to do with my scalar tables and such? I haven't touched them ever.
I've run 13.80 @ 100 mph before, but I personally believe it was too fat (not that I have a wideband to prove it), or it didnt have enough timing, it was at 32 degrees total. I tried 34 degrees and got detonation. I added more fuel, it still detonated so I am currently backing the timing down, I haven't done a full pass, this was detonation around the 3800+ region at WOT on the street.
My current PE values are as follows:
PE vs Temp = at 133 degrees on, 22.6%
PE vs RPM = at 3200 on, 10.93%
Open Loop AFR as follows:
Open Loop AFR vs temp = 154 degrees on, 10.55%
Open Loop AFR vs LV8 = 160 LV8 on, 8.98%
My commanded AFR as per my datalog was 11.5:1.
Does anyone have any ideas as to what I could try? I'm stuck.
Do you need more information? if so, what?
I have TunerProRT, and originally used ARAP as a starting bin. Driveability/Startup seem to be fine, its WOT where I am having trouble. At WOT my MAF never maxes out, it reads roughly 200-220 gm/s tops, mainly falling under that. Does this have to do with my scalar tables and such? I haven't touched them ever.
I've run 13.80 @ 100 mph before, but I personally believe it was too fat (not that I have a wideband to prove it), or it didnt have enough timing, it was at 32 degrees total. I tried 34 degrees and got detonation. I added more fuel, it still detonated so I am currently backing the timing down, I haven't done a full pass, this was detonation around the 3800+ region at WOT on the street.
My current PE values are as follows:
PE vs Temp = at 133 degrees on, 22.6%
PE vs RPM = at 3200 on, 10.93%
Open Loop AFR as follows:
Open Loop AFR vs temp = 154 degrees on, 10.55%
Open Loop AFR vs LV8 = 160 LV8 on, 8.98%
My commanded AFR as per my datalog was 11.5:1.
Does anyone have any ideas as to what I could try? I'm stuck.
Do you need more information? if so, what?
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 10,907
Likes: 5
From: The Bone Yard
Car: Death Mobile
Engine: 666 c.i.
Re: Having a hard time getting this right at WOT
Sounds about right for a 350 TPI engine. TPI limits the amount of air flow at the top end and until you swap the intake, you will find the HP "flat-lined" after 5,000 rpm.
Bigger heads & cam just "stretch" the rpm range of the "flat-line" before it drops off. But, due to the limits of TPI and the displacement, your MAF scalar tables will probably never go much above 220 gm/sec.
Swap your intake to a HSR, and you will get very close. Increase the displacement and then you will max it.
BTW, unless you are tuning with a WB, your tuning efforts will never be right. "Commanded" AF ratio with the stock O2 sensor just doesn't work properly. The stock O2 sensor was never designed for "tuning" - it was designed to maintain "stoich" for part-throttle closed-loop.
Bigger heads & cam just "stretch" the rpm range of the "flat-line" before it drops off. But, due to the limits of TPI and the displacement, your MAF scalar tables will probably never go much above 220 gm/sec.
Swap your intake to a HSR, and you will get very close. Increase the displacement and then you will max it.
BTW, unless you are tuning with a WB, your tuning efforts will never be right. "Commanded" AF ratio with the stock O2 sensor just doesn't work properly. The stock O2 sensor was never designed for "tuning" - it was designed to maintain "stoich" for part-throttle closed-loop.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
From: Vineland, NJ
Car: 1987 IROC-Z
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Re: Having a hard time getting this right at WOT
I appreciate the response. I spent the weekend doing research and RBob helped me out quite a bit. I just ordered my wideband last night, I decided it probably wasn't a good idea to keep guessing the way I was doing it, not to mention the fact that I believe my fuel pump is breaking up at around 4k, which again was making my tuning efforts all for not. For now, to get in the neighborhood of "right" I don't think it will be hard, just potentially very time consuming.
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 10,907
Likes: 5
From: The Bone Yard
Car: Death Mobile
Engine: 666 c.i.
Re: Having a hard time getting this right at WOT
The Wideband greatly helps in tuning. I don't know if you are using the $6E calibration but many prefer it for MAF cars. I found it very easy to tune ($6E) even when the engine was making lots of HP (500+). The toughest part to tuning MAF cars is the idle - and that is usually fixed with an re-adjustment of the IAC (per the FAQ section) but using a higher base RPM (say 700-750) instead of the stock 450 rpm used when adjusting the IAC.
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