anyone in NC willing to help?
Thread Starter
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From: Winston salem, NC
Car: 1987 1SICIROC.....1999 TransAm
Engine: 385 HSR.....LS1
Transmission: 700R4 with Midwest 3400 2.4str...M6
Axle/Gears: SLP Zexel Posi unit 3.42's...3.73's
anyone in NC willing to help?
hey guys! well I got my car running again and dont want to make the mistake of running it rich or having massive detonation that will pop another of my pistons to shreads. So is there anyone in the NC area or lower VA that will be willing to show me what there is to tuning? Im not begging but its alot easier for me to learn hands on than to read. Im better shown. Ive tried to read but I just dont understand what it is that I need to do or what to change. Theres just so much.
Anyone willing to help me out? I can drive to ya if its close to Winston Salem.
Mods! Im not prom begging or anything. Im just asking for hands on help here.
thanks!
Anyone willing to help me out? I can drive to ya if its close to Winston Salem.
Mods! Im not prom begging or anything. Im just asking for hands on help here.
thanks!
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,850
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From: Winston salem, NC
Car: 1987 1SICIROC.....1999 TransAm
Engine: 385 HSR.....LS1
Transmission: 700R4 with Midwest 3400 2.4str...M6
Axle/Gears: SLP Zexel Posi unit 3.42's...3.73's
Re: anyone in NC willing to help?
ok, well....can someone please have a look at this and tell me where to start? I datalogged but not with any long full throttle I just cruised on the highway and some light to light. THere is a spot where I hit about 3/4 throttle but its about halfway in the log.
WHat am I looking for and where do I start? why is my A/F so lean? if thats what it is....isnt the higher the leaner? is that noraml to be so lean when cruising?
I run 30lb SVO's and I looked for the injector setting but cant seem to see them, is it where it say injector pulse@40psi? If so shouldnt that be set to something like 31.62 and then set my fuel pressure to about 40psi?
Idle kinda sucks IDK if its normal for it to be hunting around with the RPM's due to the cam or not but its almost like its wants to smooth out but cant. and it feels kinda sluggish at part throttle. Maybe due to the cam also cause it want to run? IDK!..
Im trying to learn here but its to much to understand. I wish there was a step by step that shows where to begin and what to change..
here is my chip bin and the log.
thanks!
WHat am I looking for and where do I start? why is my A/F so lean? if thats what it is....isnt the higher the leaner? is that noraml to be so lean when cruising?
I run 30lb SVO's and I looked for the injector setting but cant seem to see them, is it where it say injector pulse@40psi? If so shouldnt that be set to something like 31.62 and then set my fuel pressure to about 40psi?
Idle kinda sucks IDK if its normal for it to be hunting around with the RPM's due to the cam or not but its almost like its wants to smooth out but cant. and it feels kinda sluggish at part throttle. Maybe due to the cam also cause it want to run? IDK!..
Im trying to learn here but its to much to understand. I wish there was a step by step that shows where to begin and what to change..
here is my chip bin and the log.
thanks!
Last edited by Wishmaster's87IROC; Dec 28, 2007 at 03:40 PM.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 1
From: California
Car: Z28
Engine: L98
Transmission: T56
Re: anyone in NC willing to help?
tuning is not really something that is "shown" in my opinion; it's something you have to think about and understand and that's often best conveyed in print.
You'd have better luck identifying a specific problem or problems with your setup, and posting about that.
For example, lets take a specific issue, it sounds like you've destroyed a piston already and you're worried about detonation; so you should post some details about your engine (as you have in your sig) AND post (in plain text) your timing table(s). That will get things started.
It's much easier for people to offer help and tips when they have specific things to comment on and help with, rather than a 'this combo doesn't work well, what should I do'.
While i'm at it, a few additional comments:
What fuel are you running? 10.7:1 static compression is definitely "getting up there" and 8.9:1 dynamic CR is quite high, this motor is going to be quite sensitive to timing, air intake temp, fuel quality, etc. I'd be nervous to run anything less than 95 octane on this engine, I'd do my best to insure a cold air intake, start with a very mild timing curve, and probably run some pretty cold plugs.
What's your quench height?
You'd have better luck identifying a specific problem or problems with your setup, and posting about that.
For example, lets take a specific issue, it sounds like you've destroyed a piston already and you're worried about detonation; so you should post some details about your engine (as you have in your sig) AND post (in plain text) your timing table(s). That will get things started.
It's much easier for people to offer help and tips when they have specific things to comment on and help with, rather than a 'this combo doesn't work well, what should I do'.
While i'm at it, a few additional comments:
What fuel are you running? 10.7:1 static compression is definitely "getting up there" and 8.9:1 dynamic CR is quite high, this motor is going to be quite sensitive to timing, air intake temp, fuel quality, etc. I'd be nervous to run anything less than 95 octane on this engine, I'd do my best to insure a cold air intake, start with a very mild timing curve, and probably run some pretty cold plugs.
What's your quench height?
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,850
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From: Winston salem, NC
Car: 1987 1SICIROC.....1999 TransAm
Engine: 385 HSR.....LS1
Transmission: 700R4 with Midwest 3400 2.4str...M6
Axle/Gears: SLP Zexel Posi unit 3.42's...3.73's
Re: anyone in NC willing to help?
my timing table should be in the LSR chip text that I posted. Its listed under "spark Advance" ,,right? when I try to list it here it just scrambles the numbers so much to where they are not readable.
Yeah Ive thought about the DC and SC when I posted at another site and some say that is way high to run on normal 93 so I may have screwed my self there and will always have to run 105,110 or even 115 which I can get all of them but at a cost of somewhere 5 to 6 bucks a gallon.
Detonation is knock, right? I dont see any when I did my run but like I said I didnt do WOT any. I did lastnight when I ran across a 5.0 but I didnt have it recording cause I forgot to turn it on.
My quench? um? Im using a felpro 1003 head gasket which is .041
let me know what anyone needs and I will do my best to post up.
Yeah Ive thought about the DC and SC when I posted at another site and some say that is way high to run on normal 93 so I may have screwed my self there and will always have to run 105,110 or even 115 which I can get all of them but at a cost of somewhere 5 to 6 bucks a gallon.
Detonation is knock, right? I dont see any when I did my run but like I said I didnt do WOT any. I did lastnight when I ran across a 5.0 but I didnt have it recording cause I forgot to turn it on.
My quench? um? Im using a felpro 1003 head gasket which is .041
let me know what anyone needs and I will do my best to post up.
Last edited by Wishmaster's87IROC; Dec 28, 2007 at 06:42 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 1
From: California
Car: Z28
Engine: L98
Transmission: T56
Re: anyone in NC willing to help?
To post a table without it getting scrambled, you can use the CODE tag (it's the # button in the editor):
Code:
Spark Advance Table
RPM LV8
32 48 64 80 96 112 128 144 160 176 192 208
4800 40.08 42.19 42.19 42.19 42.19 38.67 37.27 35.51 33.75 33.05 33.05 33.05
4400 40.08 42.19 42.19 42.19 42.19 37.62 35.86 34.81 33.75 33.05 33.05 33.05
4000 31.99 37.27 42.19 42.19 39.73 37.27 36.21 35.16 34.10 33.05 33.05 33.05
3600 31.99 36.21 40.08 40.08 38.67 36.91 35.86 35.16 33.75 33.05 33.05 33.05
3200 31.99 36.21 40.08 38.67 37.62 36.56 35.86 35.16 33.75 33.05 33.05 33.05
2800 31.99 36.21 40.08 38.32 37.62 36.21 35.51 35.16 33.75 33.05 31.99 31.99
2400 31.99 36.21 40.08 38.67 37.62 36.56 35.16 34.10 33.05 32.34 30.94 30.94
2200 31.99 36.21 40.08 38.67 37.27 36.21 34.45 33.40 31.64 30.59 29.88 29.88
2000 31.99 36.21 40.08 38.32 37.27 35.16 34.10 31.99 30.59 29.53 28.83 28.83
1800 30.23 35.51 39.02 37.27 35.86 34.10 31.99 30.23 29.18 28.13 28.13 28.13
1600 27.07 33.75 36.56 35.16 34.10 32.34 30.23 29.18 28.13 27.07 27.07 27.07
1400 25.31 27.42 33.40 33.40 32.70 30.94 29.18 27.77 26.72 26.02 26.02 26.02
1200 24.26 26.37 30.23 30.23 30.23 28.13 27.07 26.02 25.66 24.96 24.96 24.96
1000 22.15 24.26 24.26 24.26 24.26 24.26 24.26 24.26 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91
800 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91
600 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91
400 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 1
From: California
Car: Z28
Engine: L98
Transmission: T56
Re: anyone in NC willing to help?
To post a table without it getting scrambled, you can use the CODE tag (it's the # button in the editor):
Posting a table or two is usually easier for people to reply to than to post a .zip / archive / whatever, because that's extra steps that each person who reads the post has to take, vs. seeing the table(s) in question at a glance.
If your block was zero-decked to your piston/rod combo, (and assuming your pistons are flat top, or slightly domed) then you'd have 0.041" quench. If the pistons are 0.010" in the hole, then you'd have 0.051" quench. Quench helps prevent detonation/knock. You don't want to go any less than about 0.040, but you rapidly start losing the benefits of quench above 0.050.
You might consider a cam change to bring that DCR down some. have you re-ran the math to make sure your SCR/DCR calculations are correct? You do NOT want to decrease compression ratio with a thicker head gasket.
what initial advance is the distributor set at? You unplugged the advance wire to the distributor when you set the initial/base advance, yes?
If you've burned down/broken a piston and have not changed anything to prevent doing it again, that (in my opinion) should be your primary focus..determining why the piston failed and preventing it from happening again.
Code:
Spark Advance Table
RPM LV8
32 48 64 80 96 112 128 144 160 176 192 208
4800 40.08 42.19 42.19 42.19 42.19 38.67 37.27 35.51 33.75 33.05 33.05 33.05
4400 40.08 42.19 42.19 42.19 42.19 37.62 35.86 34.81 33.75 33.05 33.05 33.05
4000 31.99 37.27 42.19 42.19 39.73 37.27 36.21 35.16 34.10 33.05 33.05 33.05
3600 31.99 36.21 40.08 40.08 38.67 36.91 35.86 35.16 33.75 33.05 33.05 33.05
3200 31.99 36.21 40.08 38.67 37.62 36.56 35.86 35.16 33.75 33.05 33.05 33.05
2800 31.99 36.21 40.08 38.32 37.62 36.21 35.51 35.16 33.75 33.05 31.99 31.99
2400 31.99 36.21 40.08 38.67 37.62 36.56 35.16 34.10 33.05 32.34 30.94 30.94
2200 31.99 36.21 40.08 38.67 37.27 36.21 34.45 33.40 31.64 30.59 29.88 29.88
2000 31.99 36.21 40.08 38.32 37.27 35.16 34.10 31.99 30.59 29.53 28.83 28.83
1800 30.23 35.51 39.02 37.27 35.86 34.10 31.99 30.23 29.18 28.13 28.13 28.13
1600 27.07 33.75 36.56 35.16 34.10 32.34 30.23 29.18 28.13 27.07 27.07 27.07
1400 25.31 27.42 33.40 33.40 32.70 30.94 29.18 27.77 26.72 26.02 26.02 26.02
1200 24.26 26.37 30.23 30.23 30.23 28.13 27.07 26.02 25.66 24.96 24.96 24.96
1000 22.15 24.26 24.26 24.26 24.26 24.26 24.26 24.26 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91
800 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91
600 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91
400 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91 If your block was zero-decked to your piston/rod combo, (and assuming your pistons are flat top, or slightly domed) then you'd have 0.041" quench. If the pistons are 0.010" in the hole, then you'd have 0.051" quench. Quench helps prevent detonation/knock. You don't want to go any less than about 0.040, but you rapidly start losing the benefits of quench above 0.050.
You might consider a cam change to bring that DCR down some. have you re-ran the math to make sure your SCR/DCR calculations are correct? You do NOT want to decrease compression ratio with a thicker head gasket.
what initial advance is the distributor set at? You unplugged the advance wire to the distributor when you set the initial/base advance, yes?
If you've burned down/broken a piston and have not changed anything to prevent doing it again, that (in my opinion) should be your primary focus..determining why the piston failed and preventing it from happening again.
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,850
Likes: 0
From: Winston salem, NC
Car: 1987 1SICIROC.....1999 TransAm
Engine: 385 HSR.....LS1
Transmission: 700R4 with Midwest 3400 2.4str...M6
Axle/Gears: SLP Zexel Posi unit 3.42's...3.73's
Re: anyone in NC willing to help?
yeah Ive been thru the problem with my piston problem in the correct forum.it was more than likely due to ring gap and some detonation. THat should be fixed now.
My initial timing is set to base 6* like it says in the bin and thats what the guy who did my chip said to set it to....yes I unplugged the EST plug.
Ive re-ran the math for my SC and DC and according to the calculator on KB's site that is what I come up with.
Cylinder Head= 65
Piston=7cc flat tops
gaskets thickness=.041
gasket bore=4.166
cylinder bore=4.040 I come up with that cause my pistons are .040
deck=0
stroke=3.750
rod length=6
intake closing abdc@50=43.9 site says to add 15* so it would be 58.9
My initial timing is set to base 6* like it says in the bin and thats what the guy who did my chip said to set it to....yes I unplugged the EST plug.
Ive re-ran the math for my SC and DC and according to the calculator on KB's site that is what I come up with.
Cylinder Head= 65
Piston=7cc flat tops
gaskets thickness=.041
gasket bore=4.166
cylinder bore=4.040 I come up with that cause my pistons are .040
deck=0
stroke=3.750
rod length=6
intake closing abdc@50=43.9 site says to add 15* so it would be 58.9
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Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 1
From: California
Car: Z28
Engine: L98
Transmission: T56
Re: anyone in NC willing to help?
ok, well, with your DCR that high I would not be so quick to dismiss the piston killing problems. I checked some of your other threads and it seems you pulled the top of the piston off because the rings were under gapped and probably overheated (thus locking up in the bore and yanking the corner of the piston off). Increasing the ring gap might delay the onset of this, or even prevent this particular type of failure, but hypereutectic pistons are susceptible to other heat/chamber pressure related failures if you haven't actually solved those issues. I'm quite familiar with them as I run them in my 406.
But moving on to answer the original question re: where to start.
First, read the forum stickies, there is a ton of information in there, start learning what BLM's are and how to intrepret O2 sensor output.
Second, strong consider getting a WBO2. These are very useful tuning tools! Without one, you have no good way to know when or if you are going lean or why. Your engine combination is likely enough to be maxing out the MAF's ability to read airflow, so there is a good chance that your AFR is getting progressively leaner above 5000rpm or so - definitely NOT what you want with hypereutectic pistons, high DCR, etc.
Third, being this is a DIY forum, you need to go back to a stock calibration/prom and start doing the tuning yourself. Otherwise, you really don't know what you started with or what changes your chip burner made or why.
Fourth, pull some timing out of the thing until you have a really strong grasp on what's going on. A 10% reduction across the board probably wouldn't be a bad idea at least until you get a good grasp on what's going on.
DIY EFI / PROM tuning is not something that can be shown or learned in an hour, it takes time and understanding and learning. Even the forum experts (which I do NOT consider myself to be) are still learning things.
But moving on to answer the original question re: where to start.
First, read the forum stickies, there is a ton of information in there, start learning what BLM's are and how to intrepret O2 sensor output.
Second, strong consider getting a WBO2. These are very useful tuning tools! Without one, you have no good way to know when or if you are going lean or why. Your engine combination is likely enough to be maxing out the MAF's ability to read airflow, so there is a good chance that your AFR is getting progressively leaner above 5000rpm or so - definitely NOT what you want with hypereutectic pistons, high DCR, etc.
Third, being this is a DIY forum, you need to go back to a stock calibration/prom and start doing the tuning yourself. Otherwise, you really don't know what you started with or what changes your chip burner made or why.
Fourth, pull some timing out of the thing until you have a really strong grasp on what's going on. A 10% reduction across the board probably wouldn't be a bad idea at least until you get a good grasp on what's going on.
DIY EFI / PROM tuning is not something that can be shown or learned in an hour, it takes time and understanding and learning. Even the forum experts (which I do NOT consider myself to be) are still learning things.
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,850
Likes: 0
From: Winston salem, NC
Car: 1987 1SICIROC.....1999 TransAm
Engine: 385 HSR.....LS1
Transmission: 700R4 with Midwest 3400 2.4str...M6
Axle/Gears: SLP Zexel Posi unit 3.42's...3.73's
Re: anyone in NC willing to help?
well I did some data logging and went ahead and sent it to the guy who did my chip to begin with....I just cant seem to grasp what Im suppose to change ...how to change it and what to look for. I wish I could but its just to in depth for me to understand from reading it. I keep reading and reading but just cant grasp it. Im better shown. Books were never my good thing..or atleast learning from them...LOL I know it takes probably months and months to get it all in....Im just very impatient and wanna get it all in a day....MY fault I know.
He told me to look for this
128 +/- 8 BLM at idle when warmed up
900 MV o2 sensor at WOT
No Spark Knock in degrees
and with the logs I took I dont seem to have any of that.
He told me to look for this
128 +/- 8 BLM at idle when warmed up
900 MV o2 sensor at WOT
No Spark Knock in degrees
and with the logs I took I dont seem to have any of that.