Hi!

Got some questions to you guys about my logfile.
Was driving for around 1 hours and logged the hole time.
BLM is staying around 120 - 135 but sometimes goes down to 100 and sometimes up to 155.. What do you think of that ?
I got Bosch III 22lbs/hr injectors in her, the car runs pretty good, shall I be worried about BLM going down to 100 and up to 150+ sometimes ?
How will this affect the MPG ?..
I had Ford 19lbs injectors before, Got good MPG and Ive changed to Bosch III because the fords didnt like pressure over 39PSI.. The car idles much smoother with the Bosch III injectors.. Just want it to run well and dont screw something up. So please could you look at the logfiles and tell me what you think ?

TTS Datamaster file (.rar to save place on my homepage) : http://theking.joakimweb.se/z28/tech...08-ANYH-27.rar
Password : irocztts

Im running this BIN file : http://theking.joakimweb.se/z28/rep/bin/ANYH_27.bin

and also for you guys that dont have Datamaster, I converted it to Excel file.. But its much better to read it in TTS Datamaster, its free to use when you just reading logfiles. : http://www.alandsbrodata.ymex.net/scan-8august.xls
Filesize of the excel file : ~13.5MB

Shall I do some tuning with the maf tables to make it closer to 128, sometimes its spot on, and sometimes it goes down/up....

Any ideas ? and in the datamaster file you will see a RPM spike with 6000+ rpm, thats when I try to start her warm/running temp, then the RPM needle jumps from 0 to 7000rpm while cranking then its starts and goes down to the right rpm... what can cause that ? changed ignition module and pickupcoil and its still there... checked al sparkplugwires and cables fron coil to dist, they are all good... any ideas of that one ?

 

I would give her a little more fuel "all over" and then maybe tweak the MAF tables some, maybe not necessary...................

idle solved?

/N.

 

The idle is much much much more smoother now, I will rise the idle RPM in the prom I saw that ARAP got sligtly higer Hot idle ~50rpm more, will try that and see if it helps even more.

So you think I shall richen it upp a little?

maybe just change to inj. constant like 0.15 and see where that take me. or is that to much "all over" you looked thru the logfile ? maybe Im to conserned with this ? will do some more logging to and see if it gets any better when it learned some more..

 

10 Augusti 2008 - ANYH_28_A - Long log, crusing, some higher throttle and city driving. Alot of knock retard in this log, only change in prom is IDLE RPM is rised 50rpm when around 92 to 104 celius, wouldnt affect spark and knock... I also checked my timing today, was on 4, resett it to 6 Deg BTDC and runned, maybe that 2+ timing made it knock ? or what do you think about that ? Fired right up when EST was disconnected, had to crank some and the rpm needle jump when EST is connected.. maybe something with the ECM that makes it hard to start when the EST is connected and engine is warm?
Password for the logfile is : irocztts


10 Augusti 2008 - ANYH_28_B - Short log , just fired it up and moved it from the road. Then shutdown. And then went inside to a friend and talked for some hours.
Password for the logfile is : irocztts


10 Augusti 2008 - ANYH_28_C - Engine was little hard to start at beginning (no log on that) had to crank her over for 3 secs and then started low like 300rpm and went up to ~750 and then the RPM needle jumped from 1500 to 5000rpm up and down fast and then went to being steady... Strange.... what can cause that problem ? Same here alot of Knock Retard, and im not pulling any crazy timing on her.
Maybe its because shes lean ?
Password for the logfile is : irocztts


Strange that sometimes the RPM needle jumps around from 0 - 7000 when its around 92 deg celcius, ive changed the pickup and ignition module 3 times, and Ive checked all wires and they are good, sparkplug wires are routed away from signal cables and so on..

The hard starting is really enoying, the car runs really good when its running, sometimes it kinda wanna shake when idling with gear in at stoplights but its MUCH better then before..

Now its the hard starting I want to fix.. could it be fuelling ?
And what can cause the timing to change, havent touched the dizzy exept for changing the pickup and ignition module, is it possible to change the timing if those parts arent placed exactly the same ?

Need to adjust the fuelling little,seems to lean...
Any input on the new logs would be nice

This BIN file is the one from these 3 logs : http://theking.joakimweb.se/z28/rep/bin/ANYH_28.bin

 

Higher idle rpm (mostly) smooth out the idle.

Diffrent tuners tune diffrent ways, I would give her more fuel to get the blm's down some and then maybe tweak the MAF tables some and then start to optimize the tune for the engine.

did you have the tach problem with the old dizzy?

hard to start- the fuel? my car is extreme sensitive to too much fuel when "hot start", but then again it isnt exactly stock try lower/raise the fuel some and see.

Timing- yes if they didnt come exactly as before, otherwise you have to tighten the dizzy more....

 

The idle is around 575/600 rpm when in gear on idle, that as it shoudl be, in PArk its spot on 750 and the needle are stable so thats good..

I dont think I had the tech problem with the old dizzy. So The problem has comed with the MSD 8366 dizzy... Why is the car really easy to start without EST connected ? and with it connected PITA ?.. thats strange... what can cause that problem..? the rpm needle is stable with the EST disconnected and starting her up...

oki then its changed because of the change of pickup.. its back to 6 deg now.. will check 1 more time just to check.....

Jon at FIC told me to rise the fuelpressure some PSI and see how it turns out.
But I think I need to adjust the prom, maybe ill change the injector constant, because it seems like it need fuelling almost everywhere, on idle its 128 (+/-3) in BLM and INT...

Its strange that it runs lean with 22lbs injectors and correct inj. constant..

 

Check what timing you have while cranking it with EST connected. Or change it (lower it)

 

I dont have any scan while cranking, but look at your DRP,rpm, BPW, SA.......
Do a scan whithout EST plugged and compare.

Ps dizzy at 4* will make the timing 2deg LESS not more..........

Will log my car next time I crank it.

/N.

 

This logfile is cranking in the beginning, as you see the RPM is like 6000rpm + at start : http://theking.joakimweb.se/z28/tech...-ANYH-28-A.rar
Thats so strange, and the RPM needle is jumping from 0 to 7000 and sometimes get stuck at 7000rpm, then I need to rew it and it goes back down...

And this one also got Cranking: http://theking.joakimweb.se/z28/tech...08-ANYH-27.rar you see where the RPM is very high and its in open loop almost in the middle thats a restart of the car, and the rpm goes to 6000rpm +.... strange.. also cranking in the beginning of the file..

and this one also got cranking in the log : http://theking.joakimweb.se/z28/tech...08-ANYH-27.rar

as before its where the rpm is like 6000+...

password for all files is : irocztts

 

Also I got this today in the mail. Maybe ill try 20.5 or 21 first, I think 20 will be to much or what do you think ?

And then let it idle with the ECM resetted for ~15 mins and then take her for a spin and log some.. hopefully the weather holds up on wednesday So I can do this. not so fun while its pooring outside ...

 

But if the delay time is less shoudnt they open faster and close faster and therefor they will be open more of the "BPW" tima and flow more

Tune it your way.

I wonder what the ECM sets the crank timing at when its at 6000rpm and 4gr/s?? (and your bin has a lot of crank timing compared to other bins)

/N.

 

Yeah but its my stock bin with these changes, I havent touched the Spark Adv. :
All the RED lines there you find the changes against stock PROM... Been told to do this changes and the problem has been better (been running with these numbers for a while, the totally stock crankfuel isnt good at all.. strange thou... and the % enrich and power mode spark, will cause knock.. maybe ill try adding that power mode spark again with the Bosch III injectors ?

Crank Fuel PW Multiplier vs. Ref. Pulse

Crank Fuel PW vs. Coolant Temp changed

Injector Constant (single/double changed)

Power Enrichment Mode Spark Advance

Power Enrichment vs. RPM (% enrich)

Idle RPM vs. Coolant


With the 6000rpm + it gives 40.1 in timing.. as you also see in the logfiles then dips down to 30 then 20 then back up
to ~34 (now the car is runnig....)

 

Crank: alot of changes for a stock engine with other injectors...But maybe the stock 305TPi has starting issues?.......I think you should verify your injectors fireing and what SA you get while cranking, but hard to tell without hear the engine. But something is wrong with the dizzy signal, I cant remember I even seen spikes like that before while cranking.....

PE changes: dont see a gain here but there are more things envolved and there are many ways to tune the SA and Fuel.......

Good luck.

 

The Injectors are fireing, thats for sure, sometimes it starts good but mostly bad , The problem came with the new dizzy and the 2,0 kW hitatchi starter...

PE changes is because it was WAY rich over there, maybe ill try resetting it to stock again, the PE changes is from the accel injector time...

The RPM spikes are very wierd I think thats my problem.. any suggestions of that, checked signal wires and so and seperated them as good as I can, even changed the wire from coil to dizzy just to me 100% sure of good wire, no change.. maybe ill open the dizzy and check the clearence between the paddlewheel and pickup again, it should be between .025 and .035..

Ill try reburning a stock ANYH with maybe 21 in Injector constant.. instead of 22 and.

Also will try setting PE % enrich back to normal and see where it takes me..

For the Crank I think i leave it there, because they are bigger injectors. a friend told me to change the cranink part, it got much better with those changes...

Never had any starting problems before everything.. It came with the Dizzy change and 2.0 kW hitatchi and new injectors...

 

If you are sure the Inj fire then its a spark problem due to the dizzy or the amount of fuel is wrong. But if the ECM doesnt get DRP it wont fire the injectors.

PE- normally stock cal is a bit rich but take away PE SA Adder and remove some fuel?

Change the crank vs ref pulse are mostly needed on ARAP?
Crank PW you should change due to inj size but that much?

I have only tuned 4cars with 305TPI and 6E so maybe the crank parameters can be better I dont know............

just my

 

What PROM you think I shall run then ?
Ive tested my stock prom with the Accels, the cranking wasnt good then..
Therefore im using the changed crank ref. pulse.
Never had the starting problem with my stock injectors and stock dizzy.. then they broke and I changed and then I got starting problems instead :/....

I will try a totally stock prom tomorrow exept the Inj. Constant. I will try that at 21 and see where that takes me.

Any other things you think I should try ? Thanks for your input and help

 

Look at my post below for more info about the new proms..

 

UPDATED 13 August 16:35 (Swedish time)

PASSWORD TO THE LOGFILES IS : irocztts

And I disconnected the + terminal of the battery between the change of PROMS. and let it resett,
(left the lights on so it would drain the last mV out of the system.
Let the + terminal be disconnected for 2 minutes each time..














Please, help me out.
The car is running good when driving but its no fun when it dosent start like it shoud.. Dont like the sound it making while cranking either.. sometimes (not often) it starts good. But mostly bad , with that BAD RPM signal...

Ive changed the Ignition module and Pickupcoil 3 times and still its the same problem.
What can cause this problem ? Please help me... and why is the starter slowing down that fast and when I turn the key again it works ?!

Ive changed the ignition lock cylinder, and ignition switch, and checked the wires 5 times and they are all good... it couldnt be a bad starter again ? or what do you think ?!

 

Do the Code42 flowchart ....

The RPM signal is'nt right and the starter stops probably because the timing is way of....... then again why only when cranking? and 3 PU modules bad? sounds weird

And yes the vacuum gets lower due to the SA change.

 

Oki , thanks, will follow this chart and see where it takes me.


But its so strange, the car is running pretty good. Its the starting thats bad..
So theres nothing wrong with the starter , its completly normal that it just stops when the timing is way off ?

Oki so 15 in vacuum with EST disconnected is OK, but is it normal that it dips in the timing like that (in the logfile) and then dies ?..

yeah 3 pickups and 3 ignition modules is changed... still the same problem, the problem I think got worse when I put the paddelwheel closer to the pickup.. they said 025 was best, I think its working worse now... maybe ill put it at 030 and take it from there...

Any other ideas ? the Code 42 only came on 1 time... strange....

 

Your mention of setting the paddle wheel gap peaked my interest (was wondering what you were doing, thinking GM distributor). Then I noticed the MSD distributor in your sig. Do you have a stock GM unit around that you can drop in for testing?

I also listened to some of the startup mp3's. Note that the ARAP calibration holds off the cranking fuel pulses for a while (almost 2 engine revolutions). The calibration you are using may be doing something along the same lines.

Could also try cranking to start with the BYPASS connector open. See if that changes how the tach jumps and the starter slow down.

RBob.

 

Yes I have a MSD 8366 Dizzy, MSDTECH told me to set the paddlewheel distance to 025 - 035 they said that the lowerpart (025 is the best) I set almost set it to that yesterday its like 025/028. It got worse with that.
and No I dont have any GM dizzy, the old one is busted.. thats why I bought a new one.

I dont have ARAP I use ANYH, and if you look at the .bin files I linked I changed so it give pW from start, no change in starting, tried 4 proms yesterday, its almost the same, I think ANYH_New worked best when starting (could be a coinsidence) Im at a loss here. changed alot of things and now the hard starting part... could it be a bad ECM ? the ECM gets little hot, not as hot so you burn yourself but I can feel some heat on the shell... should it be cold when used for ~2,5 hours or little warm or what ?

What BYPASS connector ? The Tach didnt jump anything yesterday, that worked yesterday but the hadstarting was present as you may see in the files and heared.. strange that its just sometimes the needle jumps around. It never got stuck or anything yesterday (what I can remember). But as you may see in the logfiles the bad RPM signal is present for atleast the ECM.

Thanks for your response

 

It may be an ECM problem, the '165 is known to be troublesome. It is normal for the case to get warm. It is the heat sink for the drivers, regulators and such.

The BYPASS connector is the one that gets opened to set the base timing.

With it open the ECM even if bad can not control the timing. In this case if the tach still jumps along with the ECM RPM value, then there is something wrong in either the distributor, coil, cap/rotor plug wires, or plugs.

Basically, with the BYPASS open it eliminates the ECM from being the issue.

RBob.

 

aah okie the EST connector by the passengerside..
Well its sad that I havent any other ECM to try just to exclude it from this.

Could it be a bad coil ? the wires and sparkplugs are new, as with the dizzy..
I got a MSD Blaster coil (changed ~1,5 years ago.)..

Will disconnect the EST and try starting again. The strange thing is that it runs really bad with the EST disconnected, the timing tips sometimes as you may see in the ANYH_28 logfile. and when it dips the rpm went low and the car kinda "slowed" down and the the rpm rised little and got better, then the dip came again and the RPM went down.. the timing should be steady when the EST is disconnected right ? it shall not change a bit or shall it ?

the ANYH_28 is without the EST connected. (I resett the timing in the begging of the logfile to 6deg BTDC) but as you may see it dips and moves at the end of the logfile... I didnt do anything when that happened I just was standing infront of it listening to the engine. also the VAcuum was at ~15 with the EST disconnected.. was it only running on 7 cans ? it wasnt shaking so it couldnt be right ? but it did "shoke up, hassitate by itself when the timing went down.....

hard to explain how it sounded and went, Only got the logfile from that..
any ideas of that one ?

EDIT : Found a short soundclip from the EST disconnected part. directly when the soundfile start you hear the RPM go really low and then up, and then it goes down again and dies. thats what happens if I keep running her with the EST connector disconnected for a longer time (idle in the garage) the timing starts dipping and going up and down then she starts to go up and down with the rpm and then dies.. strange...

soundfile : http://theking.joakimweb.se/problems...sconnected.mp3

youu heard it go down in RPM right ? it will keep doing that radmonly if the car keeps running for 10+ mins with the EST disconnected.. strange, it should hold steady rpm and timing right ? you see the logfile you get a spike/dip on the timing pretty often in the ANYH_28_logfile

 

With the BYPASS open what the ECM shows for timing doesn't mean anything. The timing at the crank should hold steady at the base. Once the engine RPM increases over 1400-1600 RPM there should be a jump in timing (again at the crank). Need to use a timing light to see this.

The jump in timing is limp mode SA. Between cranking RPM and until the SA jumps the timing should hold steady. If it doesn't then the module is bad.

Also, once the BYPASS is re-connected and the ignition is key-off for more then 5 seconds, restart the engine and with the timing light make sure that the timing advances. The mark on the damper should move toward the passenger side (US side) of the car.

A bad coil can take out the module.

RBob.

 

Did you listen to the last soundfile ? where the RPM drops ?
What do you think causing that one ? its a soundfile where the EST is disconnected and the engine running on basetiming..

The car should not do that . it only happens when the engine goes warn/running temp, then it starts to sound like that.. strange..

Will have my friend look at the timing while im cranking,
we also check the timing when reaching 1500rpm (without EST connected)..

will have him check the timing once the EST is connected again will have him look at the timing while cranking and when the cars running...

well is there a way of testing the coil ? with a VOM or something ?
dont want to buy something if it isnt broken...

 

Looking at ANYH 28.

Have no other log from 6E car with EST disconnected but

- 1'st time it died there is a big jump in engine run time (3902-3903)
- Every once in a while the BPW goes to 0, I know $58 report som odd BPW through ALDL stream but 6E ? (3125,3210,3774 and so on...)
- 2 time it died you get 0 ign.volts before engine died ?(5367) or did you turn it off?

/N.

 

Engine died and I had to go inside and restart her

Yeah I never noticed that before, It doesent happen when the EST is connected thou.. maybe thats why it "slowed down/ dropped RPM) once in a while (as you heared in the soundclip)

At the end 5367 It did turn of the key. because it was running uneven.

as you see in the5331 (rpm spike) and 5344 (rpm drop)
the rpm dropped pretty good. and I didnt like how it was running, shut her down and reconnected the EST and resett the ECM...

 

Soundclip from today (ANYH_New is the PROM im using here)
No logfiles, only soundclips. was driving just for fun tonight.

Soundfile 1 : http://theking.joakimweb.se/problems/16aug1.mp3 (Cold start as you heard the starter stopped at first, then started.)

Soundfile 2 : http://theking.joakimweb.se/problems/16aug2.mp3 (hot start after 30 mins driving, let her sit for 5 mins then tried to start her, really really hard to start as you may hear...)

Soundfile 3 : http://theking.joakimweb.se/problems/16aug4.mp3 (been sitting for ~1½ hours outside, really hard to start, slowly start at low rpm then rise at the end of the logfile...

What do you guys think of this ?! any other ideas ?

 

To tell the truth, you need to get away from the data logs and start troubleshooting. What is the voltage at the starter when it stalls on crank. What is the timing doing (at the crank) when the engine is idling and the RPMs dip. What is the vehicle voltage at this time. Peel back the connections at the starter, are they and the fusible links OK.

Rap on the ECM, move the harness connection wires around, anything change? Wiggle the ignition key, move the steering wheel around while the engine is running, anything change.

Listening to sounds files doesn't tell me a lot. Yes, I can hear that the starter is stalling, but it doesn't tell me why. Same with the RPM dips, yes, it dipped, but can't say why.

An item that you can try during a hot start, starter stall condition: disconnect the coil to distributor connector. This disables the igntion, now crank it. Does the starter still stall? If so then it isn't that the SA timing is too advanced, because there is no spark.

If the engine now cranks fast, then you have a SA issue.

RBob.

 

The datalog is just to make sure it isnt running WAY rich or WAY lean. Now I know its not doing that so therefore i didnt take the computer with me yesterday. The voltage is ~10.2V while cranking (as it should be) Pretty new Exide Maxxima (same as optima batteri)

Have to talk to my friend and let him help me check the timing at the crank (should I check it with or without the EST connected?) The connectors at the starter are fine I changed the starter 3 month ago Checked all wires then.

Havent tried to shake/move it around yet. (ECM)

But Ive tried to move the steering wheel (last night) there was no change in the rpm or anything. The ignition key is the same, brand new and steady and no change..

The RPM dips is pretty much gone, the only problem I can say I have now is the starting point, it dosent sound so good.. Dont like the sound of it..

So it OK to remove the short cable from dizzy to coil and then crank ? there no chance of spark jumping around the engine compartment ? So if that turns over my engine fast without disengange and sound awful then its SA. if it does the same. the ignition is fine ? Or did I get it wrong ?

 

For the cranking voltage check need to put the DVM leads at the starter. The read (+) lead on the large bolt to the solenoid (has heavy cable from battery on it) and the black (-) lead on the starter body or engine block.

To kill the spark disconnect the two-wire plug to the coil, or the 2-wire plug between the coil and ignition module (pink & white wires) at the distributor.

I find it easiest to disconnect the 2-wire plug at the distributor. This is the one that comes from the coil. With this disconnected the ignition module is powered off. No spark and no injector pulses will occur.

RBob.

 

Will disconnect that 2 wire connector and try turning the engine over, will also record the sound of it so you guys also can hear it.
If it turns over good and keeps turning without any problems,
then its the timing thats wrong right ? either, dizzy, coil or ECM ?

 

Hi again!

Have been away for a week now, and I havent got the time to test anything yet, just wanted to see if someone has more ideas on this problem. Just want to know that so if someone got more things to test I can do it in one day

Thanks for all inputs so far, hopefuly we can fix the hard starting part..
I think I will change the paddlewheel distance back to 035 because I think it got worse when I changed it to 025/028.... just to see if it make any difference..