MikeT 88IROC350

JP86, i was just wondering where you got these numbers? I am not really questioning, sorry, just asking. i have been using them for a few years now. Recently i got my LM1 box out, and hooked it up to my PC, for some updates and fun. In the analog out 1 section, i was able to program 7.35 for 0volts, but for the top end, could only get 22.08 for 5.0 volts. Think this would give off some error? Seems like it would just affect the slope of the linear curve, and be off more at the high end(leaner).
I have been using the exact conversion in my TP RT ADS file. I cannot recall trying to verify the numbers, but have to believe things. It works. should the equation in TP be changed slightly? I am trying to find a needle in a haystack?
Now that is winter and my ride is parked, can play around with some things.
good stuff!

happyhapka

So i have a question, i have a plx wide band and would like to do this it does have a analog wire, i sued it on my hptuners, but how would i build the table in tuner pro rt?
and what values should i use, i know engine speed vs what?

aseychell

I am also interested in using plx with this WB hack and I would assume that the Vout is the same as the Innovate so I dont see any issues with that. It is another problem that is worrying me and is the base of everything.... How are you guys managing to reliably connect to the 165 ECM with $6e via ALDL? Recently I thought i managed to find the secret recipe of cables, OS and laptop configurations but I was mistaken as soon as the connection dropped after 5 minutes of datalogging....

seems to be a common problem without solutions and if this isn’t solved I have to start looking at SD and 730 ECM. Not sure WB was implemented on 730.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Iirc the pin on the 730 for wb input is f14
you can use super aujp 5 or 6

aseychell

Cool as always Tuned you are a wealth of knowledge.

Will start saving for a 730 conversion then but first have to get the plx. It might uncover fueling problems which might necessitate fuel pump interventions or fuel pressure regulator...

aseychell

As I had success in datalogging with my spare 165 ECM, I am now exploring adding WB signal to the ECM so I can see it in the ALDL stream. Will hopefully get a Bluetooth PLX WB soon. Two questions please:
- Can someone explain how I can copy all my BIN settings to the ARAPWB bin in tunerpro?
- I need to source some crimp pins to connect to the D8 pin. Can someone point me to a supplier / link?

Thanks again

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

It's not possible to "copy" the $32 or $32B settings over to $6E as it is fundamentally different in it's architecture. It uses entirely different tables. Additionally $6E is setup to not use the cold start injector, and is setup for a different cam than the older LB9/L98 engines and so you really need to create your own $6E ROM by the usual datalogging and custom tuning methods. Ideally you put the car on a dyno and tune it properly for it's current configuration. And if you have other modifications such as exhaust, newer injectors (like the Bosch III's), etc then you really should be doing a proper dyno tune anyway. You will also need to swap some flags for NC/NO fan relay settings, disable the VATS system, etc.

ARAP has a much too aggressive timing curve for iron head engines also - you will need to use the timing curve from your old ROM. This should more or less copy over. It's the fueling that's totally different.

What is it you are trying to accomplish with the wideband exactly?

GD

aseychell

I am already on 6e. I just need to know how to move MY 6e config on to the ARAPWB as this bin is needed to enable the input for a WB to be able to datalog it via tunerpro.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

You pretty much have to copy and paste it all manually because the table and scalar offsets may be different with a modified ROM. You just highlight, copy, and paste in TunerPro. Because they are different ROM definition files you can't rely on the difference tools - it may really screw it up if you attempt it.

Side note though - the 165 doesn't data-log anywhere near fast enough to get any more than a rough idea. Rapid transients will easily be missed because the hardware is probably going to log at about 2-3 Hz. Nowhere near fast enough. Even the EBL @ 16 Hz doesn't catch quite everything when it comes to wideband transients like tip-in on rapid WOT openings, etc. My LINK logs at 100 Hz and that's a dream come true. I personally feel that streaming wideband data into a factory 80's ECU is largely a useless endeavor as you can derive just about as much information from simply watching the gauge while you drive/tune. Heck - about half the cars we tune just get tuned by the wideband on the Dyno that samples at the tail-pipe and graphs against RPM on the dyno.

GD

aseychell

I thought I saw 8-10 Hz on the 165 when connected via ALDL. I can see your point though. It all depends on what you want to achieve. On my side the engine is pretty stock and all I need to see is that I don’t have serious lean or rich spots. I have this intermittent lack of power at almost WOT that I would like to resolve.

As you said half of the tunes (probably even more than half) are done on the dyno WB which is not so accurate and still they get a decent result. Obviously going aftermarket is a different story. Easier to operate but also has its challenges in getting a stable end result due to having to start from a blank sheet. I did some installs using DTA E and S series, and also the overpriced Motec M800. They were all motorcycle applications but I understand where you are coming from.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I believe the logging rate depends on how many data streams you are asking it for because it has to round-robin through them and the bus speed is fixed. I find that I usually want quite a few data streams for fuel analysis though. AFR of course, all the various enrichment variables, RPM, TPS, delta TPS, BLM, INT, etc, etc. I don't know how fast the 165 is with all that being recorded. I know I frequently missed rapid transients in the AFR even with the EBL @ 16 Hz. At 50 Hz AFR I find that I'm seeing enough resolution to really get every transient - stuff I don't see at all with the dyno WB in the tailpipe. I can catch a rapid lean spike coming up against my converter with the AFR being captured at 50 Hz but the dyno doesn't see it and it doesn't even show up on the my dash gauge! Not that a transient this rapid really makes all that much difference but it's interesting to note and educational.

GD

Antimatter

I went through that a bit ago with 6E and as GD stated you need to cut and paste from your original bin into the wideband bin parameter by parameter (if it is different). Also as previously stated do not used the difference tool as you can get into trouble fast resulting in corruption.
TunerPro RT outputs all the parameters specified in the ADX file into the data log when it is logging and it will do that at the 8 to 10Hz rate with the 165 ECM.

aseychell

Probably the most practical way to go about this is to load the WB BIN as a compare BIN and copy / paste using the copy from compare function I guess...

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

No you can't use the compare BIN function either because you can't have multiple ADX files loaded. The offsets won't match and it will be all fubar.

GD

aseychell

Why would i load multiple adx?? Both the source and the destination are using the same definition which belongs to a 165 ECM with $6e code. Anyway I just completed the task with the complete bin function and I didn’t find any issues. I then loaded the WB ADS, converted to ADX, fixed the packet length as it always skews up when converting, added the pause command in the macro and rebuilt my dash view. On the BIN side, I practically copied everything except ignition timing where I kept my numbers from the original tune. Still not sure if i should keep the TCC related values as the ARAP has different gearing but will give it a try.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Sorry I meant XDF file..... but reading the PDF it looks like it's the same and you CAN load it as a compare BIN because the table addressing didn't change. So in the this case it's fine. That is not always the case with hacked ROM's.

GD

aseychell

Thanks for confirming this GD. I actually used the expanded 6E XDF so I had quite a lot of options to go through. I also calculated the conversion formula for the PLX as the AFR range is smaller than the Innovate WB and also the formula included in the ADX had an incorrect ADC maximum value as it was based on a 16 bit value (1024) not 8 bit (255).

If the connectors and AFR arrive till the end of this week, I might manage to get something up and running. For sure wont manage to weld on the bung but would like to see datalog coming in.

Will update everyone on here.

aseychell

Just wanted to let you know that I managed to install the PLX SM-AFR and connect its WB Analog output to the 165 ECM using pin D8 and ARAPWB.

The Delphi pin 12089660-L is the correct pin to fit connector D.

With regards to Tunerpro, loading the ARAPWB bin and loading your original BIN as a compare bin, copying all the modified parts to ARAPWB works like a charm. As the PLX has a smaller range than the Innovate, note that the formula in Tunerpro has to be X * 0.039215686 + 10.000000000 as the one included in the ARAPWB adx file is for Innovate which has a larger AFR range.

Now its time to start datalogging and see what is going on when the car feels lacking power.