I'm looking at bins in Tunerpro RT at $8D masks and noticed a variance in some of them. Some have zeros and some have eights.


I'm looking at "SETUP, Number of Cylinders" which obviously should be eight.

....But in the box where I would put "8" it asks for "cylinder code" instead of number of cylinders. ODD? Bad description? poor choice of word?

So am I looking for a hex code somewhere which might be actually be zero, or just the number "8" because that's the number of actual cylinders. Did someone creating the bin simply forget and not change a zero to an actual number (8) or is zero a valid "CODE" when you have a GM vehicle with eight cylinders?

 

For $8D masks

NUMBER OF CYLINDERS =
# = HEX Value
4 = $80
6 = $C0
8 = $00

 

What JP said. Note that this varies according to the mask. Some use the actual # of cylinders such as 4, 6 or 8.

While $8d (and others) use a code for the number of cylinders.

RBob.

 

So please correct me if I misunderstand, when I'm at that box, I should change whatever I'm seeing from "0" or "8" to read "$00" instead?

Would having a "0" or "8" there instead of "$00" have prevented my vehicle from starting for the past three years


I still have a no start condition, 46lbs pressure at the rail, 12.6 volts to the coil, a noid light flashing but, no fire in the hole. In fact the plugs seem dry.

 

Will it hit if you are spraying starting fluid or some other combustible down the intake?

I would pull the injectors and have them tested, they are working electrically but maybe not mechanically. Pintles stuck in the injectors come to mind.

Or maybe power an injector from a battery (full 12 volts), to see if it hits. After a try or 2, pull the plug and see if it is wet.

 

The $00 and 0 are the same. Just put a 0 in for the # of cylinders value.

Placing an 8 for that value will throw the spark timing way off. But it would at least kick, spit or sputter.

RBob.

 

Will try hitting it with a battery tonight or tommorrow. In past it's been dry plugs, even thogh noid light flashes

 

This may seem like an obvious question, but what is the fuel pressure at the rail?

I have a hard time believing that there is good fuel pressure at the rail, noid light flashing and all plugs are dry. I could see one or two, being failed injectors, but not all. The only other thing I could think of would be a blockage in the intake tract, like rags in the intake ports, or tape across the intake ports, no pushrods. Don't laugh, I've seen all of that and more.

 

1) 46-47 at rail, was lower at 42, but suggestion from local mechanic said raise it up, as he's seen times that the injector won't lift at 41-42 (Accel 32lb/hr) 46/47 should help blow them off the seat.

2) agreed on beliving all eight would not likely fail at the same time.somethigncontrolling them might. Shooting some starting fluid downit'd throat got it to bark a few times, That and dry plugs leads me to believe it'a fuel issue.

3) Previously had an engine that dropped lifters, unlikely I'd drop all sixteen, or even one from each cylinder so that nothing ever fires. If one or two cylinders were cold, that would be an area of concern.

4) I still question whther I've downloaded a good programbin into my Prominator Pro Seems like for such a small dowload it takes along time and I get a flurry of Verify Failure messages. Since it doesn't say Upload failure, I'm hoping I'm safe. noticed the "limp home " notes here on the forum when only verifying.

Having been throwing NO codes up to this point, particularly no Code 51= ECM failure. I have two 730 ECM's, and also burned chips from TPIchips and PCMforless. There is no combination of chips/ecm that ignites things.

Wondered about finding someone locally (Rochester, NY) with a 730 TPI system. and swapping out ECM packages with them.
A)Taking a known working combination from another car into mine
B) putting mine into a working car.
Either scenario helps supply to elimninate causes. I don't know anyone locally, thought I might approach someone at an auto show.


Wondered if aftermarket security system might be at fault. (Audiovox APS775) Local guys say if I have starter turning over (yes) and 12 volts at Coil (yes) then it's not the security system at fault. I realize that 730 has VATS. It was programmed out on Tunerpro in the "flags" section. with X taken out of VATS box.

At this point I'm not laughing. I'm somewhere between crying and throwing bagged kittens in the river.

 

The theory about higher pressure helping lift the seat in the injector depends on the style of injector. Some, the higher pressure may inhibit the ability for the injector to open.

It doesn't make sense that no combination of EPROMs and ECM, will get it to run. That to me suggests a problem not with the bin file, but something mechanical.

Do you have another set of injectors you can put in and try?

As a Remote starter and security installation tech I can tell you, what you have been told is correct. The "box stock" install for the 775 would be a simple starter kill. This would simply keep the engine from turning over. Now, ignition kills can be added, but would be rare that an installer would do such a thing without it being specifically requested. You are also seeing 12V at the coil, so I would suspect that an ignition kill is not the case either.

Can you hear the injectors clicking at all?

Could you get some video of the noid light? I've gone as far as manually grounding the injectors to make sure they do open, I've even "ran" the engine (poorly) this way in some desperate trouble shooting times.

 

8:20 am EST I'll head to the car shortly. I'll follow the suggestion of building up pressure at the rail, maually triggering an injector and check the plug for wetness.

( Sounds almost like what I used to do with the women I tried to start up)

 

LOL!

 

First off I aplogize for this becoming another notorious no start thread.

OK , got out to the car.


pulled coil off to prevent actual start
Checked plug #1 to make sure it was dry to begin with.
Brought cyl #1 around to have the intake valve open.
Hooked up fuel pressure gauge.
Turned on ignition a few times to bring fuel pressure up (46lbs)
Tapped injector #1 contacts directly from battery, could hear clicking and watched fuel gauge dump off to near zero.

Pulled plug, and it was dripping wet.

Pulled harness from all other injectors, and they all clicked when tapped from battery source, although not necessarily on the first tap. Cyl 2 & 5 took a few hits before clicking.

I'm wondering from that experiment if I have enough voltage to lift injectors during normal start up, or insufficient pulse width during crank to dump sufficient fuel into cylinder? Wondering about what might control this before it reaches rpm to engage the running fuel & spark tables. Came up with "Crank Pulse vs Coolant Temp" as likely pre-fire table of control. Anything else?

Any thoughts out there? it's been three years of frustration on this beast!

 

Does the fuel pump pressure stay as the engine is cranked? Observe the gauge as you crank to start. Need to do this with the injectors connected.

I would also try starting it now that the injectors have been exercised. Note that the Accel injectors do not have a good reputation for reliability.

Wouldn't hurt to put a DVM on one of the injector connectors hot sides and crank the engine. Just to be sure that the +12 volts remains. Leave all other injectors connected at this time.

I have seen stuff like this where power to the coil and/or injectors was pulled from an ACC fuse. During cranking the ACC feed goes cold. Power is there with key-on, but once in cranking the power goes away.

I would also go back to where fuel is added via the TB. Just to see if it will run for a while.

RBob.


{edit:} to add a little more, check for the SES blink at key-on, engine-off. That will verify if the ECM is running from the Prominator. At key-on, engine-off the SES should turn on, blink off, then turn on solid. No blink off, the ECM is in limp mode.

Also wouldn't hurt to check the resistance of the injectors. Should all be at or above 12 ohms.

 

Thanks for the input gentlemen.

It's Friday night 06/05 now, and will be working 12 hours on Saturday. Trying these points will be weather dependant on Sunday. Thank you for your continued support. I am truely appreciative of you sticking with me on this.

"I have seen stuff like this where power to the coil and/or injectors was pulled from an ACC fuse. During cranking the ACC feed goes cold. Power is there with key-on, but once in cranking the power goes away."

This car was one of Kicker Audio's demo cars, in the 90"s and has been rewired under the dash by past owners . Lord knows where people may have leached off power for one thing or another over the years.

Power to computer is direct from battery "+" connection via new "Painless" harness. So I would think power to injectors is essentisally from computer as source, but the coil wire (pink) goes from coil to junction block under passenger side of dash. (it's a Caprice wagon, not an F-body)

1) I will trace back to ignition key for suspected leached power points, shoddy crimps.

2)Might need to consider wire straight to coil from "key on".

3) Will check SES light. Saw it come on but paid little attention . I know it was still on solid later, but didn't check or pay attention for any initial blink,

4)In the past (last fall before I quit ) jumping ALDL gave no other code than "12" Haven't checked this time will do so, and report back.

"Wouldn't hurt to put a DVM on one of the injector connectors hot sides and crank the engine. Just to be sure that the +12 volts remains. Leave all other injectors connected at this time."

I've got a Radio Shack DVM with a MIN/MAX function (never used it before) It would seem handy to record what's there at the injector, if 12 volts is actually seen or not.

Dave Buchholz (lakeffect)

 

Got up early to check injector impedence and diagnostic codes


1) all injector impendence range between 13.6 and 14.5 ohm.

2 ) "Key on- in run" flashes as on - off - then maintains steady on

3) ALDl jumper on pins A and B, scanned all eight prominator banks

No programs in banks 0, 5,6,7 steady on recorded (as expected)

Programs in banks 1,2,3,4, flash "12", no other codes thrown
(bank 4 holds my S_AUJP V4 burn, and is the bank in current use)

 

OK after a lot of 12 hour work days and some rain, I'm back. I had to change the starter. Three years of grinding took it's toll on the pinion gear. Back to the problem

The only "leech" off the pink power wire to the distributor is to the security system, which is now disconnected.

Now I'll try to get voltage and pulse readings off of the Injectors, to make sure I have 12 volts to open the injectors, and what length fuel pulse is present while cranking. We know from last weeks test, that they will all manually fire from the battery, but from actual cranking I have dry plugs all around the block.


I'd like to make certain of a reference pulse from the distributor other than the fact that the noid light flashes (but not brightly) I'm using a new battery and keep it charged overnight.


Thanks for staying with me on this. Your thoughts?

 

The next test that I would do is to check the volts side of the injectors, that is take your volt meter and see if the 12 volts is right at the injector connector when cranking.

The next noid light I would use, is take an old tail light and check between battery plus and the injector connector ground side, when cranking. The light should be on dimly as the pulses will not fully brighten the lamp, then check across the connector pins with the tail light. Testing between plus injector connector and battery ground light should be on bright, even when cranking. This test is a load type test as the tail light will have more load then the noid light.

If your not opening the injectors with the ECM, then one side or the other is not carrying the power needed to fire the injector. You need 12 volts and some amps to run the injectors and also the ECM ground side needs to pull to ground, enough amps to cause current flow that will open the injectors like the straight battery test.

If you have the same conditions as the battery test, then the injectors should be opening and fuel drowning the plugs.

What you are looking for is a high resistant short, enough short to run the lights but not enough to run the starter. A poor connection comes to mind, a loose or corroded battery terminal is just one example.

I would also unhook all but one injector and see if the ECM can open (spray fuel) with just one hooked up. It won't run but should hit, sputter, or show some sign of fuel spray.

I would also try the battery test while cranking, start the cranking then hit the injector with battery power, you should get some kind of reaction before the spark plug gets wet.

I would also double check the spark (pull plug, ground to the engine) while cranking to be sure that the ignition is working, this will verify your distributor pulse. It may not be at the right time but it should be there.

Another test, remove the MAF, and spray some starting fluid into the TB while cranking, use just a little, as this stuff is really flammable, too much will wash the oil off the cylinder walls, and cause more trouble. If everything is ready but the fuel, you should get a rpm zoom, till the fumes are gone. Opening the TB a little will help and watch for a back fire, as it will be hard on the face hair.

Using a large screw driver to listen for clicking right at the injector may work too.

Let us know what works and what doesn't.

 

Pandin, thanks for the input. I' need a few minor expansions to make sure I'm doing the right thing. It sounds like you are describing three tests here

1)"The next noid light I would use, is take an old tail light and check between battery plus and the injector connector ground side, when cranking.The light should be on dimly as the pulses will not fully brighten the lamp."

Do you mean taking a lead from the actual battery (+) to the ground side of the injector?


2) then check across the connector pins with the tail light.

I would think I'd see them same thing as test #1 ???


3) Testing between plus injector connector and battery ground light should be on bright, even when cranking. This test is a load type test as the tail light will have more load then the noid light.


Bypass the injector going back to the connector and take it to a different ground point? By these three steps, I've checked both sides of the circuit individually and combined?


The screwdriver trick magnifies the sound or vibration to make it hearable or feelable?


As a correction, I'm on a speed density system so there is no MAF, just a filter. I bought some starting fluid and will give it a try.

 

My comments are in your quote.

The reason for all this checking is that, with the direct battery power and ground, the injectors sprayed fuel. This means that either the power is missing, or not strong enough to power all injectors, or the ECM grounding isn't.

The tests are check ECM grounding vs battery power, check normal power and ECM grounding, check normal power with a battery ground (unplused). Test spark with different fuel. One of these tests should spray fuel as did the full power battery test.

The different fuel source test the spark. The screw driver listening is to verify that the injectors are clicking at crank, this maybe hard to hear because of starter noise, but is a good test if you can get it to at least hit, sputter, or something.

The same goes for unpluging all but one injector this lowers the power draw and may get you some kind of action.

 

So far, I had a few minutes to verify part of the tests. I was able check both sides of the harness for B+ being available. Measured voltage to both sides as 12.6. This was from the pink and pink/black wires to ground.

SHOULD BE ABLE TO PERFORM OTHER PARTS OF TEST OVER WEEKEND AND WILL REPORT BACK THEN. THNAKS TO ALL FOR YOUR CONTINUED HELP!

 

Question...
What would prevent An ECM from grounding. I see several potential gound connections on the ECM pin out diagrams. Although I suspect there is an internal issue more thean external. I will make sure each Grounded wire has been pinned to the correct pin connection on teh ECM and ckeck continuity.

Last summer it accidently fired up, when I grounded the tach connection. Since the coil requires a collapse to trigger ignition, is it likely I don't have sufficient collapse, therefore insuffient pulse to ECM, poor pulse to injectors,

Why would it fire up with the tach accidently grounded to begin with? What causes, or what prevents a coil to collapse properly?


ALL NEW Parts TWICE in the ignition system, including wiring.

 

As I read your other thread asking for someone to test bench your ECM, it occured to me that this might be ignition/reference/spark related.

I skimmed this thread to see if I could see any verification of spark, I didn't see any confirmation of that.

Even if you do have spark, does the ECM see the reference pulse from the ICM? Plugging an ALDL cable in and watching RPM display on your favorite datalogging program will verify that.

 

Refer to the attached diagrams.

 

To build on my last post, could it be as simple as the 4 wire connector not being plugged into the ICM at the dizzy? You will still have spark, without this connector plugged in, but the 2 pin (pink and white wires) connector plugged in, just no timing control from the ECM, nor any injector activity, due to the ECM not knowing that the engine is actually turning over.

 

Look at B3, B5 and D4, D5.

B3 = 0 volts key on and engine run. This is a ground connection (not just 0 volts).
B5 = 0 volts key on and 1.3 volts engine run (that is above 400 rpm, not just cranking). This is the pickup units output, pulses at engine rpm.
D4 = 0 volts key on and 1.3 volts engine run (same as above). This is the ECM modified spark advance output (it is a pulsed ground connection). This should be about 20 degrees of spark advance. 0 volts (open wire ) is not the same as a ground.
D5 = 0 volts key on and 4.75 volts engine run (same as above) Disconnect D5 (tan/black wire) and the ignition modual is in base spark mode (like setting the base timing), that is D5 open (0 volts) = 6 degrees of base timing (stock setting). Other wise it should be 20 degrees or the ECM idle spark advance value.

Changing switch A-B (Tan/black open or connected) only engages the ECM control over the spark advance. The B5 1.3 volts is what tells the ECM that the distributer is turning, Ref pulses. Needed for injectors to fire.

 

Keep in mind, I'm on a speed density system using a 730 ECM. Although I appreciate your kindness for attaching diagrams and pinouts, they seem to be for a 2 plug or MAF system, while I'm on a three plug Speed Density unit.

 

There are just a few differences between a Maf and Map as to the pins (3-4), people repin Maf to Map all the time. Most of the other pins are the same, so there is a lot of useful info in the key on engine running volts.

The ignition pins, I believe are the same, somebody that has done the swap, help me out here. The biggest differences is the "big" coil on the distributor and the "small" remote coil distributor.

If this extra information is too confusing, let me know and I will stop trying to help. I don't want to muddy up the information water, any worse then it already is.

Try this thread:

Repinning TBI to Speed Density TPI
started by anesthes TGO Supporter/Moderator 12-29-2003, 02:23 PM

Or this one:

730 ECM pinout schematics 730 ECM pinouts.
ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/manuals/1227730/

 

Pandin, I'm using a "painless wiring" harness and a 730 ECM (a rebuilt one) so nothing was ever repinned, just gutted and replaced. No wory about confusion in additional info. You never know when it will be just the missing peice someone else has been searching for.

Odd part is... it was running once. I had a mismatch of intake vs head angles, that caused a spewing of oil, BUt it ran. After changing manifolds, it's never started up again. so "SOMETHING happened three years ago, but /*what?
Tonight I want to track power from battery and ECm grounds as they leave the ECM, along with other suggestions here and the other concurrent thread going around. I have three grounds on the engine itself, both heads and block but maybe I missed an ECM ground. I've had it about dozens of times in my unending quest.


The IAC seems to run continually as well. Maybe a clue? constant buzz from it. Can't run the motor to set it officially.

 

If you can identify the cross between the 165 and the 730, you can use the volts key on and engine run to check for bad readings.

Just go to the 730 pin out schematics and find the sensors, mark down the voltages. Then you can test and see if they are good. There are only 3-4 wires different from Maf to Map. The rest may go to a different pin but they are the same sensors, so the volts will be the same.

 

More clues in your last post....

Check the TPS, more specifically the ground. If the ground has been cut, or missing connecion, your car won't start. The TPS voltage goes "high" (5V), and the ECM goes into a "Clear flood mode", which pretty much shuts the injectors down, though I did notice, when I had this happen to me, that the "noid light" I was using (a test light), would flicker just a bit, which I thought meant that they were firing, they were not. I would also get the occasional sputter, since a little bit of fuel was injected every few revolutions, or seemed that way.

I discovered the TPS input high, when I back probed sensors at the ECM to try and sort out my no start condition. As soon as I discovered this, I unplugged the TPS and it fired right up.

Check that input or just unplug the TPS and try it. If it starts, you either have a bad TPS ground, a bad TPS or it is pinned backwards.

 

Ok here goes the reults... not what I was expecting.

1)tested Harness for all ECM pin to ground continuity, 730 pins BA12, BB5&6, BD1,6,7, 12 and GE15 , all show continuity registering 0.3oms on average.

2) Codes, jumper on ALDL, key on, ( not cranking) all prominator banks (0,1,2,3,4,7) with programs showed "12" no other codes present. In banks where no bin resides (,5,6,) a steady light came on.

3) I got EGR relay clicking and IAC buzzing on all bind but 5 & 6, IAC buzzing never stopped while key was on.

4) TPS voltage at 0.541

5) fuel pump relay key on but no cranking, pump runs, pressure builds to 47lbs. relay kicks out afterv 2-3 seconds. repeated key on-off cycles repeats same. If fast onoffonoffonoff, relay does not repond on. If two three seconds between key on, then relay can be heard to kick out as before.

6) cranking fuel pressure can be seen to pulse or ossilate, pressure stays up, relay can be heard to click about two seconda after cranking stops.

7) per JP instructions, key on voltage at ECM pin A11 (fuel pump) goes to 12.4 volts and drops to zero when relay clicks out. When cranking abit erratic, saw readings between 11to 13 on good ol' Radio Shack VOM.


8) pulled feed from "remote coil" output (not module) to Distributor cap center, got clean plug gapped at .040, and stuck it in wire from coil output. Placed against valve cover, and drew away while cranking. Had some spark that was able to be maintainedwhile pulling away 1/8-1/4" Can't say it looked like lightning from heaven though, or any Autolite or Champion ad I've seen.

7) Cleaned plug #1 prior to Cranking to initiate firing with coil reconnected, no hint or fire in the hole.. Sprayed starting fuid into Throttle body. GOT ZERO REACTION , no hint of firing repeated with more fluid, NADA


8) pulled plug, had signs of wetness (prostate problem in old age?) and plug was blackened and sooty.. Soot rubbed off easily.

9) static compression test gives me about 11.5:1 on a 406 block with AFR195 heads


Dirty plugs was the most interesting thing that showed up. I'll point out I've replaced all Ignition components at least twice, GM distributor twice, now an Accel system in place Coils, plugs wires.

I have an Accel digital system ready to be plugged in plug in, but what's the point without any firing up?


Your thoughts are most welcome. As always, my thanks to those kind enough to respond. Dave.

 

Do you have another vehicle that those plugs would fit in, I would swap and try. This is a good way to clean up the plugs, run in a known good engine. You can do 4 at a time as to stay away from messing with number eight.

 

OK, after all that being what it should...
Is there a rotor in the distributor? Pistons not in the motor ? I'm at a loss.

Anyway,
Fuel pump Relay output prime and run during crank... or is it?
You checked that the relay output was working correctly (as you should have) but you should now check that the power the relay is switching to the fuel pump is staying during cranking. Not sure if you did that at the same time, it wasn't noted so I brought it up.

I don't want to go backwards in the conversation but since you stated the distributor was changed, IIRC the LT-1 style has reversed wiring from the L98 on the 4 pin connector. Probably not a concern if you have checked it and are getting pulses. Confirming which pin is the ground on the 4 pin connector can guide you to confirm that is correctly done if you need to recheck it.
HTH

 

I'll start tonight by checking the items in Pandin'd list, aprticularly why the IAC and EGR are interacting, assuming that they should not be.
I plan on re-running the "B+" from the distribution block to the Key. I've checked FROM the key but not TO the key. Once again multiple owners, with how many power taps over the years? I have no clue. It only takes one tiny wire to show continuity.

Plugs could easily be fouled, and checking base timing has been limited to stabbing it in, and praying for divine guidance and intervention, (just my luck that the Lord was a carpenter and not an electrician) as it will not run to fire up a timing gun. Perhaps it's another sign of not enough "OOMPH" to the coil, that a simple spark checker will light up (orangish) but I haven't been able to get the gun to light up, only random and sporadic firings (last year)

 

I think may have attempted that pump on during cranking test last night. I'd found out that while cranking, I was seeing some 11-13 volts readings on the VOM while still connected to the ECM

You guys are starting to convince me of a short, mis-pinned connection or power distribution issue. I will try to duplicate the tach ground test to see if it fires up. I did that by accident once and it fired up with open headers. (requiring an immediate change of underwear) Wondering if the result can be repeated and it will happen again without the "immediate change " portion occurring.

 

ECM pin A11 (fuel pump) is the relay drive from the ECM. Since it is basically ignition feed power it will vary as the engine is being cranked.

You can also monitor pin E13 at the ECM. This is the actual voltage being feed to the fuel pump itself. That too will vary as the engine is cranked.

From your tests is seems to me that the ECM is getting DRP's. This is shown by having the fuel pump relay activated for 2 seconds by the ECM each time you crank it.

Have you put a scan tool on the ALDL and checked what the sensors are reporting to the ECM? That can tell if something isn't right.

Did you leave the jumper across pins A&B of the ALDL connector? If so that will cause the IAC to constantly step out (extend).

RBob.

 

The only "scan tool " i have is my volt-ohm meter. I have never datalogged, although in theory I own the equipment to do so. I have the ALDL adapter cables from Moates, and TunerRT software. Never hooked it up. Always thought getting it to actually run first would be nice.

You mentioned the jumper on the ALDL. Yes the Jumper was in place, during all tests. so that may explain the busy IAC. didn't know it would make a difference.

By the way, the repeat of the famed (or infamous) "underwear test" of grounding the tach lead did not fire up the motor. I pulled all the plugs to clean them, before cranking. Most were already (still) clean and shiny. Only two showed signs of light carbon, 1 & 6

 

NEVER, EVER run, or attempt to run an engine with a jumper between those two pins. That can cause no start conditions and poor running.

Getting the tuning equipment connected can help to diagnose what's going, by seeing start attempt conditions, with what each sensor is "telling" the ECM. This helps greatly in diagnostics.

 

SIX SHOOTER IS A GENIUS!

I pulled the jumper. It fired up.

 

Glad to hear you have it running now.

Now get familar with that tuning software and hardware.

 

It is the little things that really cause the biggest head aches.

 

in this case.. a three inch piece of wire.

I want to thank you al for staying with me on this, particularly to acknowledge..

JP86SS

RBob

Pandin

Six Shooter


Over the years, I've seen you all come to aid and rescue of many members on the forum. Thank you all for your combined wisdom, and willingness to share it. You make this forum a better place because of it.


I hope you all stayed tuned for "How Do I Datalog? chapter 406 "

 

Glad it is running.
Solving problems like this is great fun for the guys on the outside. I like to do it because it keeps my skills honed thinking it through.
I hope the kittens survived the ordeal

I'd like to look into that situation in more depth as to why the no start happens when in the diagnostic mode. I've always heard this causes problems but is the first documented case I know of.

 

Won't go so far as to say that yet... Only had it running long enough to have it catch and clear some carbon out. Went home at lunch today, to repeat things only got a few belchs and pops. I know the distributor was not locked down last night. No doubt it moved around, likely went way late. Fiddled with it for a few minutes, but couldn't get a repeat start out of it


Not sure yet if it's an honor to be the first documented case of ALDL ADHD on the forum. The psychiatrist said pretty much the same thing about the kittens on his forum as well. I told him it only causes problems if they scratch a lot on the way to the river.

 

I'm back to no signs of life again.


Fiddled with the distributor timing a bit, figuring it slipped around from being a bit loose. I could not get any sign of firing up again.

I've been trying to get at least a base line of where the timimg is, with my timing gun. Keep in mind this is only during cranking, the engine is not idling, it's not even running.

My Actron Inductance timing gun does not flash at all on this vehicle, either at the #1 spark plud wire, or from the coil output. yet I get some spark by holding a plug to the header

Is this a sign of a spark so weak in amperage that it won't trigger the inductor coil on the gun?. It works on other vehicles, so why not this one?

 

Thought I'd drop a line and bring you up to date.

I wasthinking of some comments here. and came up with the point that this vehicle had been modified on several occasions by previous owners, each hacknh into the power supply sdie an key on side on the B=. I counted 7 differnt splices for Alarms, Audio eqiupmwnt , tv screens , etc. I had continuity but no current.

I replaced the entire supply side wiring with heavier gauge wiring and eliminated any/all harness connections and couplings.

It started and stayed running, although roughly.

We were able to get a timing gun on it, minimum advance was way up to 24*. Popped the spark plug wires onto the next post over clockwise to retart the spark, swung the cap back and we had 8* on the money.

It was relatively rich and blowing smoke, but I haven't ventured into datalogging yet, so I know I' just guessing atthis point. I do have a prominator setup, and Tunerpro RT, so it was easy to pull out some fuel around 800 rpm and low load. that helped greatly. Still seems a bit rich, but better.

It ony has a few miles on it, and I've noticed it bogs and wants to break up, sounds kind of sputtery, if you load it up about half throttle arounf 2400-3000 rpm.

I'm wondering ( without data) if this is a sign of too little spark advance in that area.

Other than "Learn how to data log!", any thoughts on it?

 

To try to tune without a data log is like shutting your eyes and trying to drive.

Why risk all the damage by guessing, it just doesn't make sense. You have the hardest part the prominator. Get an old lap top,cable, and try to log, if you have issues ask and someone will help you.

Without the data log how is anyone suppose to know what is happening?????