slrvette

iTrader: (1)

The new cam I put in (XE268-H Flat Tappet) has a 114 LSA, so my idle is a bit choppy. Surges 600-800. You can hear it in the video below. What is the easiest way in tunerpro to adjust this? I've seen a couple of tables such as IAC idle but they are at 800 or 825. Can I just raise these up?
thanks

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Idle is set by IAC/Drive and IAC/Park-Neutral tables. Idle RPM controlled by IAC. There is also a table called Stall Saver. Surging may or may not be related to Stall Saver. If RPM drops to SS area it will open IAC and you will see in logs. I idle OL and that seems to help. Also I changed SA/idle compensation table to 1.0 deg to reduce its effect on idle. Before it was like 3.0d. Right now I am using the above tables. Last season I set idle low in tables and controlled idle with throttle stop screw. Not sure which way is better.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Many times surging is caused by a lean area. Check the data log and see of the WB is showing a lean area right before the surge. If so then increase the VE in the general area until it stops.

This is along with what Ronny posted.

Is there a video to go with the delivery of your birthday cake?

RBob.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

LOL... thats a private video!...

This is what I've done so far

Smoothed out my low VE table between Map 40-70 in the 600-1200 RPM range

Adjusted the Idle- drive and N/P tables up by 50.

Seems a bit smoother car is idling 800-900 while in N. Put in D or R and it drops to 6 or 700 RPM. Then I noticed that my volts drop to 11.4 and it stalls. So I'm gonna have to focus right now on my idling while in gear so my volts don't drop out.

When using the tables for RPM what does the left column mean in tunerpro?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Oh well... Just figured I'd ask

Which table in particular are you referring to?

RBob.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

Sorry about that. The IAC/ Drive and IAC/Park-Neutral. They have two columns one for RPM then the other is labeled as a 0 (with a line through it) and letter C. Is that Celsius?


I've been working on smoothing out my Low VE table as much as possible. Not sure it that will help with the low idle or not and the choppiness but figured I'd try.

Should I be removing fuel from that table rather than adding to it. Here's a screen shoot of idle in OL. Seems pigrich to me.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

> other is labeled as a 0 (with a line through it) and letter C.

Yes, degrees C. The 'o' with the line through it is from the use of different character sets within Windows. Note in the screen shot the degree symbol shows up correctly.

> will help with the low idle or not and the choppiness but figured I'd try.

The engine is still cold, about 80 F. How does it idle when up to temperature? Get that correct first. As it will affect the cold running idle.

Then once the warm engine is running OK work on the cold running.

I agree that is is rich. If it is still that way, or if the warm running is OK, then reduce the fuel in the "Open Loop - AFR Multiplier vs CTS" table in the areas of concern. Reducing fuel means a less negative value. Such as seen as the table reaches operating temperature.

Also note that the screen shot shows the engine has been running for about two and a half minutes. So the choke (after start) fuel is completely or close to completely decayed out.

RBob.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

Thats what I thought.. thank you

I looked at the OL-AFR Multiplier vs CTS... yeah ok.. you don't want me touching that one!.. , I don't have a clue.

I put in the orginal Low VE table from the TPI .bin I got with the ebl. Idle seemed to be better. HOWEVER....(you knew that was comin..lol)

I go from this


To this.... and thats when I start having idle issues. Is this cam gonna be that tough to dial in?



And each one gets choppier- and when I flashed in the .bin above and below as soon as I put it in gear it stalls out. Then I've got to go back to the beginning and start all over.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

SLR.... Are those last two "Learned" ? If so you may not be gettng sufficient hits around the learned cells. Might need some manual smoothing.

[QUOTE]Many times surging is caused by a lean area. Check the data log and see of the WB is showing a lean area right before the surge. If so then increase the VE in the general area until it stops. [QUOTE]

May need to add fuel in VE at cell(s) that you idle in when fully warmed as RBob stated.

On cold start I believe I am at 12.0/1 on WB as coolant temps rise.

I dont understand why your RPMs and IAC steps are that low on rather cool engine?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

What you are seeing happen to the VE table is normal. Your set up is very different then a stock TPI setup. What the VE learn is showing is lower VE at idle. Then building more VE in the off idle range.

As for the engine stalling now when put into gear, did you increase both the park/neut and drive idle RPM tables by the same amount? It should idle higher in prk/neut. What are the IAC counts in prk/neut on a warm engine? They may be too high which means the idle stop screw needs to be adjusted.

There is also the IAC in drive adder steps. This adds to the IAC when the transmission is shifted into drive to help prevent stalling.

Has the torque converter been swapped out for one with a higher stall speed. A stock converter with a higher idle speed will load the engine more.

Don't keep starting over with new VE tables. Unless your O2 sensor is silicone poisoned let it do it's thing. There are multiple areas that need to be worked on to get a modified engine tuned.

The other thing is that the low RPM, low load area of the VE table can be hand flattened. This can also contribute to stalling and running issues. Recall that the engine rarely runs in that area, so it won't learn in. The introduction to tuning part 2 shows an example of flattening this area.

RBob.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

[quote=Ronny;4534261]SLR.... Are those last two "Learned" ? If so you may not be gettng sufficient hits around the learned cells. Might need some manual smoothing.

[quote]Many times surging is caused by a lean area. Check the data log and see of the WB is showing a lean area right before the surge. If so then increase the VE in the general area until it stops. Ron, yes those are learned .bins. Each drive was approx. 15 min's. So the engine should have warmed up quite a bit. Engine temp is running at 190-200 while doing the learns

The last VE learn I did, I did a datalog as well. What happens is my WB reads about 11 to 12 at idle.. on acceleration it leans out then as I let off the gas its gets rich again.... go figure

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

The tq has been swapped to a 2500 stall

Engine warm in Park IAC counts are 1
IAC counts in R or D are 4 and 5

Left is IAC-Drive Right is IAC Park/Neutral

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Should not lean out on accel. Do you see AE light lit in WU or in analysis see the Y in column? Might need a bit more AE? Drivability OK?

Lifting the pedal will cause vacuum and that might explain enleanment. But you are MPFI and I am TBI so not sure if that enleanment you see on WB is lessened as manifold is not as wet as TBI.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure either. When I accel I thought my WB would drop (rich) like it did when I was TBI. Right now its the opposite. Maybe my tune is backwards...

Its seems as though drivability is better. I have to stay away from WB learns though. I'm back to doing BLM learns. I did flatten out my VE low table as the instructions suggest but as soon as I do a learn its all over the place again. I can see this cam is gonna be tough.

Whats my easiest way to tell the tune to add more fuel at acceleration?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Took a look at the data log, and checked with Comp on the cam specs. Basic specs are:

part #: 12-242-2
Dur @ 50: 224/230
Lift: .477/.480
LSA: 110

This is a moderately ratty cam. To see what the VE tables will be like see the calibration for the 5.4l (331 ci) engine. Similar cam but with a narrower 108 LSA.

The data log shows a rough fluctuating idle. Going to need more SA at idle and smoothed to match into off-idle. See the 5.4l cal again for idle & off-idle SA.

Idle is too rich. Continue to allow the VE to be lowered. Is the FPR vacuum referenced?

It would be better if the IAT sensor reported closer to what the intake temperature is. Not the manifold temperature.

The IAC counts at idle should be higher. Although until the tune gets better closing the TB's may make things worse. This is something that you need to try and see how it works out.

The idle speed in park/neutral needs to be 25 to 50 RPM higher then the in-drive table at operating temperatures. Although it can be lower at cold temperatures to prevent 'slamming' of the drive train. Because cold idle speeds are already high.

RBob.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

When I tuned AE I did so starting out lean with the lean pop in manifold as proof lean. Then I added in AE fuel in TPS and MAP tables in equal amounts. Right now I have equal AE in TPS and MAP. However I removed about 5 scaled to 20% (negative % in table)from 2600 up to 6000 RPMs as it was unnecessary and excessive. Also I was told that excessive AE shows up as a drop in INT(maybe BLM as well) as excess is pulled out with 02 feedback. Dont overlook the TPS and MAP AE filters for fine tuning AE. Explained in RBobs EBL instructions nicely. Those filters allowed my AE to come in immedately vs a bog/delay I experienced. I believe tuning AE for your setup will be easier than TBI. We are running similar cam by the way just your LSA is much narrower(harder to tune) as well as similar specs on heads. I just see RBob responded.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

Thats not my cam..12-268-4... well close by LSA is 114
And I use 1.6rr's so lift is .508/.512


Yes vac reference FPR- using the Kirban
IAT is located in the plenum of the HSR
Where do I find the 5.4l cal? Can I do something as easy as copy and paste?


Thank you for looking and gathering information. Its much appreciated!

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

OK that cam is my cam. I think you swapped a while ago? Should not be all that difficult to tune due to LSA.

I think that .bin came on CD along with EBL.bin...

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

No it just went in this past week. Broke it in this past Sunday. I'm looking through the CD and don't see it. I'll check again though

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Seems Comp likes to use the same lobe/cam grind designation for multiple cams. Check it out:

http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/Ca...x?csid=86&sb=2
http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/Ca...x?csid=93&sb=2

Appears the only difference is the LSA.

Which, with the wider LSA, there will be less overlap, a wider power band, with less peak in the power.

The 5.4l calibration is included on the EBL Flash CD. In the BINs folder.

RBob.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

Must be a popular grind.
Right now I'm only seeing three .bins TBI,TPI and the .xdf file. I'll keep looking though.. thanks

RBob

iTrader: (1)

OK, I just emailed the BIN library of the EBL Flash v2.0 release to you. With what you found you have an early release of the EBL Flash which only contained the two BINs.

RBob.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

Your the man!... thank you.
I've been going between both BLM and WB learns and is becoming more drivable I think. I feel one of my biggest problems is I always find myself starring at the WB and start questioning why its all over the place. I'm just gonna cover it for now so I don't look.
thanks again for the .bin library.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

Ron you might be onto something there. I've noticed that all my IAC counts seem low. I did a bit of research today and found out some intersting info about the counts. Naturally they should be higher and have been told how to adjust that. I'm gonna make that adjustment and see what happens.
thanks

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

Been playing with the IAC.
I have voltage to it.
Counts aren't up to where they should be. I've been told that I can adjust the butterflies of the TB a bit and it will raise my IAC counts. Doesn't seem to be working.

The TB is a 90 corvette TPI.
Could the IAC be bad?
or is there another way it can be adjusted?

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

IAC control the idle RPM. RPM is balanced with air both flowing past butterf as well as through IAC. Opening butterf reduces counts and vice versa. Open butterfly considerably and IAC will drop to zero and RPM will increase over what is commanded. At that point IAC cannot contol idle. That is how my idle was set last season. Today I have 10 counts. Are you certain your IAC is wired correctly? I had issues getting mine to function with 1984 harness. I finally was able to fiqure it out.

Visually inspect its movement. I think you can short pins in ALDL to extend it. Likewise it will retract when you crank engine.

slrvette

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Ron, I did check the wiring. i did adjust my TB throttle screw and know my IAC counts are about 40 at idle, CL. This should help with some of this tuning.

So open butterfly (WOT) my counts are zero. So its safe to say that as the car accel's the counts will go down?

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

WOT IAC = zero? I honestly never really looked at IAC at WOT. I suspect IAC will show some counts. Someone once posted it should be max at WOT to provide more flow. So there is a a table somewhere for that?

Are you using the crossfire harness? I will guess my wiring to my IAC(1994) will be same as yours. I had some difficulty geting it right. I posted my sucessfull diagram I will say a year ago. I believe RBob pointed me in right direction on that.

I show max IAC at 200. On cold start IAC is 200 and stays there until about 140F deg then starts to drop.