Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

alright guys, im brand spanking new to tuning and have been reading up for quite a while before deciding to take the leap into DIY tuning

ill have many qustions on tuning as i go so i figured id just start my thread and keep it running instead of jumping onto other's treads

my setup is an 89 Camaro RS L03, and ive already got my computer set up to accept the 28 pin chips(will be programming a 27SF512)

my first huge question:

yestereday i threw my stock chip in my computer and plugged it in just to make sure i didnt screw anything up while soldering or anything and the car ran just as flawless as before with no trouble codes

today i went back to show my uncle how my car sounds with the new exhaust and noticed my check engine light was on and the exhaust smelt rich

i tried to pull codes but not even 12 would flash, so i looked down and noticed that i had left the computer uncovered on the floor with the stock chip exposed to direct sunlight, my understanding is the stock chip is UV eraseable.

so if the sun did erase my chip would that cause the codes to not flash? or should i be looking deeper

ill be checking the stock chip when i get home to see if it is erased or not, but i am 100 miles away from my tuning equipment right now

dan0617

Not sure if a day of direct sunlight would erase the chip or not. Sounds more like you aren't making a good connection in the aldl port to pull codes. I would think a 12 would flash even with the chip erased, but again, I'm not sure.

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for the reply,

unfortunately i am now 100 miles away from the car so no investigating further unless when i pull out my programmer tonight i check and find out the chip was erased.

The not making a good connection theory is a good one, but what leaves me scratching my head is ive pulled codes many times using the same "gm code key" i picked up at autozone, its a little key shaped tool that has two prongs at the end to jump A and B,but i will look further into that next time im with the car(most likely next weekend)

thanks again, ill keep updating

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

another question for anybody to answer, what is the name of the stock chip(305 TBI A4 ANTT), ive already read my stock chip once, but i cannot find the thread i found that told me what chip to choose from the list so that it reads correctly, im trying to see if my stock chip got erased, but i really doubt it did now(my programmer is telling me its not earsed but i also dont have the correct chip selected)

my next venture will be to reset my computer and see if the problem is still there, hopefully i will get to my car this weekend if not next

thanks again

J_D_

I had my ECM on the floor for 2 months because I was tweaking the tune so often. One day it starts running bad. It took a few minutes to see the main ECM harness partly unplugged. It can happen with the ECM just hanging there. Something to look at anyway.

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

ill look into that as well,

i also just read on another thread that with the moates G2 adapter you cannot run the stock chip, if thats true that might explain why i cant read codes and my SES light stays lit constantly,

ill keep reading and when i get to my car i will check all possibilities

**EDIT**

for some reason i can't get my PP2 to read my 27sf512 chip, i have it selected from the list and when i click move device it tells me the device is not in the socket properly, then i try to just erase the chip and it tells me the same thing

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

Let me also add that my ses light is solid on even when trying to pull codes, i brought my ecm home last time i was with my car, and i realized i soldered my G2 adapter directly to my board, so i desoldered the adapter and soldered in the 24 pin dip socket so that way when i plug my stock chip in it will just be 24 to 24 instead of a 24 pin chip in a 28 pin zif

now i took my ecm back to my dads and plugged it in, to my understanding the notch on the chip should point toward the inside of the ecm, so thats how i had my chip, turned my key to on and the ses flashed rapidly, i turned the chip around with the notch pointed out and turned the key on and the ses turned on solid

something else i noticed was my dash speakers are not working along with my ses staying solid with no codes, maybe i have a wiring issue or some blown fuses, i will have to check next time im there

thanks for any help guys, i know this isnt directly related to tuning but im trying to get it there

RBob

iTrader: (1)

As long as the window had a good cover the sun won't erase the chip. If the window was uncovered the chip could easily have had some bits flipped.


Plugging a PROM in backwards easily destroys them.

RBob.

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

alright RBob, thanks for some info and now that i have the attention of one of the greats to DIY tuning let me see if you can set me straight

by window you mean the window on the chip? if so then the window was covered with the sticker that has the bin name on it

im pretty sure i fried my first 27sf512 as i cannot get it to read or erase in my PPII, it just tells me the device is not socketed properly

and as i understand it the notch should point towards the center or "inside" of the ECM correct?, i have my 24 pin dip soldered in with the notch facing inside but when i plug my stock chip into that(notch the same way) and turn the ignition on the SES flashes rapidly, if i turn the stock chip around and face the notch to the outside of the ecm the SES stays lit letting me know that it is communicating properly with the chip

RBob

iTrader: (1)

On that ECM ('8746) the notch goes toward the inside. The rapidly flashing SES means that the main CPU is running and there is a checksum error in the PROM. So it will stay in limp mode.

To verify that the ECM is truly running from the EPROM, look for the SES blink at key-on, engine-off. When I used to tune via PROMs I did this every time I keyed-on.

At key-on, engine-off, the SES will light up briefly, blink off, then light up solid. If it doesn't blink off, the ECM isn't running from the PROM, it is in limp mode.

Can repeat the test after at least 5 seconds of key-off.

The reason that the SES lights up solid with the PROM in backwards is that it is tying up the address & data buses. By doing that the CPU can't run the on-board ROM, so no rapidly flashing SES takes place. And no SES blink at key-on.

RBob.

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

Thanks alot RBob, guess i need to order some more chips and see if i cant get it straight so i can datalog

mgilorma

I am having the same exact problem. With the ECU out of the car, I checkeded the G2 adapter pins for connectivity between each other and found a bunch that were connected, pretty sure this is a bad thing. I had someone at my work who builds boards for a living install the adapter, so maybe it is a prob with my ECU. Any way here are the pins that were connected.

VSS-VPP
A15-A12
A15-VDD
A15-A14
A15-A13

I got these pin names from the st27sf512 data sheet

ace_012

I believe if your looking at the "front/top" of the adapter the two on the left of the notch and 3 on the right are supposed to be connected. Pin 1, 2, 26, 27, 28 need to all be connected.

mgilorma

yup they are, the only other thing is pins 14 and 22 are tied to ground

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

If you're checking across pins of the G2, while mounted to teh daughter board, you may be getting that connection from the circuits on the daughter card. As long as the solder connections aren't bridged I wouldn't worry too much about the pins showing connection across the socket. I would check the actual connection to the daughter board though, to make sure that the board is completly soldered in correctly. Also check to make sure that it was sodlering in in the correct orientation.

mgilorma

everything looks like its in the correct orientation, pin 1 towards the middle of the board. Looking at the pinouts for the 27sf512 and 2732 chips, it looks like I should be able to plug my factory prom into the G2, correct? It would be put in the G2 so that pins 1,2,27,28 would be empty. Has anybody done this?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Yes, you can do that.

mgilorma

I checked this out on my lunch break and the ses light goes off then starts blinking rapidly. It does this with my 27sf512 chip installed or with no chip installed. I haven't tried putting the original chip in yet, wanted to get clarification on that before I went ahead with it.

I've read back the entire chip after I programmed it to make sure that my 4k bin was at the end and it looks good. I've attached it if anybody wants take a look at it.

I managed to fry my first chip by putting it in backwards, could this have messed up my ECU?

Are there any schematics / pinouts for the 8746 ECU on this board so I could debug my ECU? I guess I could start by checking that 5 volts and ground are good on the chip socket when the ECU is in the car and ignition is turned on.

ace_012

If your bin is offset right, and chip is right and the adapter is soldered in right I would go ahead and download a different bin off moates real quick, burn that and then plug it in and see if it is still in limp home mode just to make for sure it isn't the bin, or open up the bin you are trying to use with one of the stock bins for the 8746 and check to make sure the prom checksum are the same? I would assume they are the same at least, someone else could verify that.

mgilorma

I plugged in my original prom, and it works fine, so that proves that the ECM is good. I was doing some reading on here and saw that setting the Mask Id to 0xAA tells the ECU to ignore the checksum, so I am going to take the stock bin and change the mask id and see if that will allow the ECU to read my new prom.

mgilorma

Turns out that my original bin was bad. When I first started to try reading and burning I was using an older version of the chipmax software and that was why I couldn't burn any chips. Apparently that is also why my original bin that I put on a new chip wasn't working. I re-read the original bin with the new software and put that on a chip and everything worked. So I was able to modify my VE tables a little and the car is running slightly better.

I am actually a software engineer by day so I am thinking about writing up a little program to automatically update my VE tables in my bin based off the BLM datalogs that I have. I know that there was some old perl script that did this floating around. I'm probably just going to write it in c++ and put it up here for other guys with the 8746 who are trying to get started.

Thanks for the help guys!

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

wow i never got an update that all this happened, anyways its helping me out as well, and the program you are thinking of writing would definitely help us beginners to understand the comnection between blm's and the ve tables

ace_012

Good deal dude! Hey if you do make that program do you think you could share the source code? I actually started college this year and one of my first classes is a C++ class (although im majoring in computer engineering ) and wouldn't mind trying to also modify it to work with 7747's to learn a thing or two in the process Been having trouble tuning mine lately and I think that could definitely help.

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

lol, well guys i ordered some chips from Xenocron(they distribute for Moates and are great for import tuning) got a deal on their chips from ebay 5 for $15, they also have a 10 for $25 deal

anyways they showed up today and i burned a new stock chip

first thing i noticed was my offset was way off, so i fixed that and i will be going to my parents house tomorrow evening, so i will be able to test and see if that fixed my problem

wish me luck

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

ok, i didn't have any luck, so i brought my computer home with me and i checked my solder job, then i read my chips to see why i wasn't getting a good burn(constant flashing ses)

***EDIT*** for anyone who read the email notice, i figured it out, playing with it today it has 5 digits not 4 and i reread the Transtronics FAQ page so i got the understanding now, so im re reading all of what i read to get started to make sure i understand again



when i read my chips that i had burned to try, i put them in Tuner pro with the $61 xdf so i could check them over, and both of them had their checksum and mask id set to F's, i took this as not good so i erased those chips and reburned an ANTT bin and an AXKT bin, then i read those 2 chips and the checksums were fine just as they are in the bin file from the computer

im going to bring my entire burning setup to my parents house this friday so that when i get back from the track saturday morning i can actually burn and try chips within seconds

im really hoping to get this working so i can actually datalog my car

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

just got home from my parents house with good news, i burned an ANTT chip and tried it, with the flashing SES as a result, so i decided i would try an AXKT bin i downloaded off a thread here, and it worked flawlessly, so i guess it was just my bin this whole time

thanks for all the help, now that im set with my car running on a 27sf512 this thread should get more interesting as i will start to datalog

mgilorma

Check it out:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...ml#post4684472

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

Can't wait to get that running on my new Laptop, Thanks for your work!