Tank91RS

Ok so i have a 91 Camaro Rs
305. v8 standard.

Its currently in the Chevy Dealership getting my electrical mess worked out. Charging problem has been fixed and is running like a champ.

Minus the check engine light being on.
I was told i need a new Prom. Well the one for my year
i guess was discontinued, but the part # i was given is #16161123.

What could i use as a replacement or even upgrade if im swaping it out already.

Tank91RS

Been looking around since ive posted this,
found this Prom Intro link.
https://www.thirdgen.org/promintro

And it lead me to the Prom that fits my car.
http://www.futurlec.com/cgi-bin/search/search.cgi
Now my new question is, will this chip have to be programmed?

And since there both the same price, Which one would be better? the 200ns?

uraijit

That link is no good. But I would imagine it's a blank chip, that would still need to be programmed.

As far as which speed would be better, "ns" stands for "nanoseconds" which is the read speed of the chip, so the lower the number, the faster the chip.

How are your soldering skills? If you are able/willing/comfortable soldering in a header to your ECM, I'll burn you a chip with whatever PROM file you want, you just pay my cost for the chip, and the cost of shipping. I use the SST 27sf512 chip, which is a 70ns chip.

If you're not comfortable soldering, you can also modify your factory chip holder to work with the 27sf512, but you might as well go with the socket. That way, if you decide to do any custom tuning in the future, you can swap chips easily...

If you just want to modify the factory holder, you can follow the directions here http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/s...hlight=27sf512

I can even do the soldering part for you.

Tank91RS

Engine Code Engine Production Broadcast Code ECM Number Service Controller Number PROM Code

E 5.0 TBI ANTR, APTY, AXKW 16161123 1228746 8016ANTR, 2254APTY, 1124AXKW

Was the Prom code information. And yea if you could i would pay you for it.

wrenchmonkey

I'd be happy burn one for you. The only thing I ask is that you locate the .BIN file yourself, and send it to me in an email. I don't want to be responsible for problems, if I end up getting the wrong .bin or something.

If you do have any problems though, I can re-burn it for you as many times as you want to send it back, but just would feel more comfortable not touching the .bin except to put it directly on the chip. I believe you should be able to find that bin here: https://www.moates.net/files.php

Sorry, I know that seems weird, I'm not a tuner, and I don't claim to be. Just a guy who happens to have access to a burner, and a few extra chips lying around. Who sees an opportunity to help another guy out.

I'll PM you my email address, and you can send me the .bin file, and your mailing address, and I'll get the chip burned and on its way!

884+3

If your interested, i can get you a brand new from the dealer memcal for your car NIB for $125 plus shipping. PM me if your interested.

uraijit

I don't believe the 8746 ECM uses a memcal.

Tank91RS

What header would i have to solder into my ECM?
Soldering isnt to hard, think i could figure it out

Tank91RS

Here the link to a thread where i posted a picture of my New ECM
i just went back to it because i thought it had a PROM chip on it.
and it looks like there is one but i could be wrong.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/dfi-...-ecm-prom.html

Post #13.

uraijit

Yeah, it looks like you're ready to plug and play. The pics are pretty fuzzy, but since there's no EPROM holder in there, it looks like the header is already there.

If not, you can pick one of these up at radio shack for $0.99, and cut it down to 24-pin, and solder it in. http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062605 That's what I ended up doing with mine.

Tank91RS

Plug and play? So i already have the header, so just purchase that 40-pin, cut it down, and solder it where exactly?

uraijit

No soldering should be necessary. It appears it was already done by somebody else.

If it DOES need a header put in, you just cut the 40-pin socket down to a 24-pin socket, and solder it in. Or you can find a 24 pin socket elsewhere, and save the hassle...

Shouldn't need it though, as it appears from the picture, that it's already got the socketted header installed.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

That's the stock PROM socket in that ECM, in post #13 of the linked thread.

There is no PROM installed, which I'm sure you've figured out by now.

You will still need to remove the stock PROM socket and install one more suitable for accepting an EPROM. The stock PROM socket is design to be used with the `cage`that the PROM itself was installed into.

A couple options are to get a 24 pin DIP socket and install it in place of the original PROM socket, another would be to get a G2 from Moates and solder that in, though I prefer to use a socket only directly to the dughter board, then add what ever accessories or PROMs as needed.
I would also recommend getting a socket that has "machined" pins, instead of the formed contacts that is most commonly available. The reason I say that is because I have had the formed type EPROM sockets lose thier "grip" for lack of a better description and can cause the EPROM or adaptors to fall out, or lose contact.

Either way you do it, to use the newer, more commonly available, and more reliable 28 pin EPROMs, you will need a Moates G2 or similar adaptor socket so that the ECM uses the proper EPROM addressing. Alternativily, you can use the Socket Booster from Moates as the adaptor, this part would be needed if you ever planned to do any tuning with an emulator. If you don`t, then I wouldn`t worry too much about getting the Socket Booster, even though I have experianced more reliable connectivity when using the Socket Booster, even with an EEPROM (SST27SF512) over using something similar to the G2, though I would try the less expensive route first.

wrenchmonkey

No G2 Adapter required. All the adapter does is tie several pins together. I've already physically tied those pins together, so it will work without any adapters.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

That would fall under the "something similar" catagory.

I usually use a socket and tie the pins together, myself. But not everyone has the soldering equipment or skills to do that, hense why I suggested the off the shelf item.

When it comes to things that need soldering, I usually suggest the off the shelf approach, since I have seen plenty of very poor soldering examples over the years from a first time DIYer, in electronics, and general electrical, such as installing a radio in a car, not pretty what I've seen.

wrenchmonkey

No worries, I personally have tied those pins on my ZIF socket as well, for my personal stuff. But since I burned this chip for the OP, I went ahead and tied the pins on the chip, so he can just plug it in and go.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

He'll still need to swap the original PROM socket for a normal DIP socket. The original PROM socket doesn't hold just an EPROM very well.

wrenchmonkey

Agreed. I advised him of the same in a PM.

Tank91RS

Off to radio shack now to get a DIP socket. When i pop out the one it comes with should the new one; once cut, fit onto it? or will it need to be soldered?


editt: Just answered my own question. It does need to be Soldered. Now i just need to find the tools. Dont want to purchse something im going to use once...

wrenchmonkey

Need to solder it. You'll have to desolder the old socket, and solder in the new one. If you're not comfortable doing it, you can mail it to me, and I'll do it for you, and mail it back.

Tank91RS

Wow, so De-soldering is serious stuff.
Been working on taking out the old PROM holder, to replace it with a new 24 Pin connector. Hard part in this, getting the solder out of the holes in the ECU so the new connector can slide in.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

One of these makes things VERY easy:



Solder vacuum, solder pump, solder sucker, are names it goes by.

wrenchmonkey

Get a solder sucker, and/or desoldering braid. It can be tricky, but it's doable with practice.

wrenchmonkey

Six_Shooter beat me to it...

Tank91RS

I have the braid, but that takes some skill and patience.
Got it the holder in. But a quick question, if some of the pins dont go out as far as other, but are still through, are they ok?

wrenchmonkey

Should be ok. As long as they all get a solder connection, it doesn't matter how far they stick through. I usually like to solder two pins on opposite corners to hold the piece in place, and then go back through, and solder all of the legs.

Some people like to apply a piece of tape to hold it down from the top side while soldering from the bottom. I don't usually do that, but I've been soldering for many many years, and it's more of a waste of time to me.

It can free up another hand though, so if you're new to this, it might be helpful.

Tank91RS

ok getting to that right now, had to take a food break.
Thanks for the chip!

Should the 1 pin hang off the front of the new connector?

wrenchmonkey

Yes, there will be 4 pins total that do not fit into a socket. Install it with the notch in the chip facing toward the inside of the ECU (toward the smaller chip that's on the board) with the pins over-hanging on that same side.

I bent the pins up out of the way, so it should fit fine in the socket, even with the over-hang.

Tank91RS

First soldering/de-soldering attempt.
Hows it look?

Just went to install my new and improved ECU into my car,
and nothing... nothing at all, no electronics turned on.
Just dead?

Hooked battery up to a charger, now just waiting; hope this is the solution.
But question for you anyway, Lets say solder dripped somewhere on the chip or i scratched part of it, could that cause my car to not run correctly?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Looks, like you have at least one bridged pair of pins, and one pin completly missing.

I'd say you'll have to re-work that, probably start with a new socket.

What are you using to solder? Get yourself a desoldering tool it's worth it. You can get cheap ones for like $5 if you don't think you'll ever use it again.

Tank91RS

Well, now for the part where i get irritated.

Looked at my chip after you said they cant be bridged together,
well... i have two pins from the holder sticking out the side, that never made it through.

Now, i was about to go buy a de-soldering kit to make life easier, but i also will need as new holder. Unless i can bend those to fit (have not tried yet but will)
Fun part about all this, i bought Radio Shacks last 2 40-Pin connectors yesterday...

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

40 pin connectors? for what?

wrenchmonkey

Yup, that soldering job won't do. Not bad for a first attempt, but there's way too much solder on there.

It's probably salvageable. Probably don't need to do a new socket, but you need to remove some of that excess solder, make sure ALL of the pins are soldered, and make sure the solder doesn't bridge connections between pins.

The bottom row looks pretty good, but it looks like the pin might not have made it through the hole.

If you can get the top row looking more like the bottom row, you'll probably have much better luck. Take your time, and triple check your work.

Also check the main board for any possible solder drips, that might short something out...

EDIT TO ADD: Sorry, I had this typed up and didn't click save. After I came back and clicked save, I saw that there were already other replies.

wrenchmonkey

Radio Shack doesn't carry 24 pin dip sockets. They carry 40-pin sockets, which can be cut down to 24-pin.

My offer still stands. If you want to mail it all to me, I'll be more than happy to do the socket install for you. It can be a little bit tricky, if you're not experienced at soldering.

Tank91RS

Hmm, i might send it to you. Im considering it, If i just leave what i have soldered on and with the chip in, and send it to you will that be fine?

wrenchmonkey

Yeah, that's fine. Just be sure to include the return shipping with it. And if you can throw in a buck for me to buy a new dip socket, that'd be sweet too.

The ECM will fit perfectly in a flat-rate priority mail envelope...

Tank91RS

Ok, my bro convienced me to try one more time.
if i doesnt work. Its coming your way.

wrenchmonkey

Sounds good. Like I said, take your time. You can probably get it done.

Tank91RS

ok just finished
heres photos of what it came out looking like the 2nd round.

oh and this right here helps ALOT! Advise everyone to get one if they plan on de-soldering anything.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062731

My soldering skills got better pretty fast.

Tank91RS

My bad that one picture is so small.

But chip installed, ECM reconnected.

Engine turned on so i started set the idle.
Not sure if this is the right way but was how i was told to do it before,
but..

I turned the engine on, let it run for about 30 -45 secs.
Turned it off.
Turned back on let idle out, then was about to drive but hood latch thing slid down so i had to pull it back up and bolt that back down. In the process turned the car off.
Got the hood closed, cranked it and drove away. Drove for a little maybe 15.

While driving car began to try and stall out and shake in 3rd. So i would shift down to 2nd.
2nd held better but i still couldnt speed up past 35. So just did that the rest of the way home.

wrenchmonkey

It's possible you are in limp-home mode. You may still have some bad connections on that board.

I'm hoping that the 1st pic is a pic of things after desoldering, and not after resoldering. If that's after resoldering, you need to go back in and add some solder back.

Did you get a check engine light at all while driving it? Flashing, anything like that?

Also, did you double check that the ECM is plugged in nice and tight?

Tank91RS

Check engine light didnt go off. Was thinking it would go off after a little driving with the new idle system.

And the 1st pic was just the holder through the chip. BEFORE solder.

I also didnt put the panel on for the underdash if that could make a difference?
But yea ill double check wires and plugs.

wrenchmonkey

Unplug all of the connectors for the ECM for about 15 seconds. Plug them back in. This will clear out any stored codes.

Then start the engine. If the Check engine light comes on, use a paper clip to pull the code, and see what's going on.

It shouldn't matter whether you put the panel back on or not. I've seen people leave their ECM dangling in the floorboard, with no issues. The ECM in my boat is just sitting on the deck under one of the side covers, next to the engine.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

If the CEL just turned on, with no flash at key on, you are in LHM, and either the socket install isn't correct, or the EPROM has the wrong offset, or the addressing pins are not shorted correctly.

If the CEL turned on, flashed, then turned off at engine start to only turn on a short time later, you have set a code and can pull it by shorting pins A and B of the ALDL connector, with the key on, but not started.

That reminds me, I need to program another EEPROM for my boss' '62 Suburban to keep the VSS code from showing up.... until we get a VSS for it...

Tank91RS

Ahh.. just pulled the CEL code. Still have code 51.
:/ any ideas?


Thinking about running th ecm back up to Auto Zone
get a new one, or atleast one ordered.

Buy a new connector for a buck.
and Start this all over again, for the grand cost of $1.00

wrenchmonkey

Well, I'm not certain that Autozone will take it back, after being modified that way. I guess you can give it a shot.

Double check and make sure you didn't lift/burn any traces on the board.

I'm 95% certain that I addressed the chip correctly.

You didn't solder the header in with the chip installed, did you?

If so, check to make sure that the little wire that connects those 5 pins is still in place, on all 5 pins. Make sure that the wire that goes from one side to the other hasn't broken either.

If it still doesn't work, I can re-burn it, but the chip read fine. When addressed that way, and wired that way, it read in my burner just like a 2732 chip.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, code 51 is a PROM failure, you`re definatly in LHM.

You should be able to use the ECM you have. If you have lifted any traces, they can be repaired, in a few different ways.

Tank91RS

Ok i hope i just found the problem.
When i went to check the mod connection you did, i noticed a orange wire hanging off from the bundle of wires going into one of the plugs. Not sure what it goes to, but will fix it tommarow when i have more light.

If its not the answer... then back to where i started.






Oh. Btw the 5 pins were still connected.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

A disconnected wire to the ECM will not give you a code 51.

You still have a problem with the EPROM or socket.

wrenchmonkey

Six Shooter is right. Error code 51 is pretty clear. Something's not right with the EEPROM. Either the socket, or the chip itself.