Hi all
I am starting fresh with the SAUJP 1026a file, I have only changed the Injector
# to #24 from the start point of 22. The car fires right up but it is on the edge of too much fuel. I also have a WB that is set to the F14 pin but it is frozen on 10-1 what the heck is going on? Am i missing something in the bin that will allow me to access my WB data? Also are there many members using the SAUJP 1026a file as a start point? warm idle and rev up sound great thanks for any and all replies, GTA.....
I am starting fresh with the SAUJP 1026a file, I have only changed the Injector
# to #24 from the start point of 22. The car fires right up but it is on the edge of too much fuel. I also have a WB that is set to the F14 pin but it is frozen on 10-1 what the heck is going on? Am i missing something in the bin that will allow me to access my WB data? Also are there many members using the SAUJP 1026a file as a start point? warm idle and rev up sound great thanks for any and all replies, GTA.....

Ok, an update,
The car is very rich upon start up and requires me to Open the throttle just a bit for it to fire then it idles very uneven for a short time 10-20 seconds then settles into a more even idle....my question is do i just lower the VE tables in the idle areas? or should i lower the entire VE table by 5-10% to start?
The table currently is very smooth and i am not sure if i just lower the idle areas i will create a "valley" in the middle of this nice VE table.
1. Is it important to create a nice linear VE table vrs a table with peaks and valleys?
Thanks GTA.....
The car is very rich upon start up and requires me to Open the throttle just a bit for it to fire then it idles very uneven for a short time 10-20 seconds then settles into a more even idle....my question is do i just lower the VE tables in the idle areas? or should i lower the entire VE table by 5-10% to start?
The table currently is very smooth and i am not sure if i just lower the idle areas i will create a "valley" in the middle of this nice VE table.
1. Is it important to create a nice linear VE table vrs a table with peaks and valleys?
Thanks GTA.....
ok, after some reading today i "think the tables that i need to lower are the
OL Para ,AFR%change Vrs Coolant
OL Para %change Vrs MAP
can any one confirm this or am i looking in the wrong place thx GTA....
OL Para ,AFR%change Vrs Coolant
OL Para %change Vrs MAP
can any one confirm this or am i looking in the wrong place thx GTA....
Member
The xdf that comes with saujpv4 has a error in the "crank pulsewidth vs coolant temp" table. I doubt this is your problem, but you may want to edit the xdf so that a couple of temperature values are in the negative rather than the positive. I found a couple other weird things in the xdf and the bin that I believe were errors, but I forgot which ones they were.
Thx,
I too found some things that i am unsure of.....in the table
`PE % change to AFR vrs RPM some of the values are negative ... why would that be so i copied replacements from a stock AUJP in there instead, oh well back out to the garage to try again......GTA
I too found some things that i am unsure of.....in the table
`PE % change to AFR vrs RPM some of the values are negative ... why would that be so i copied replacements from a stock AUJP in there instead, oh well back out to the garage to try again......GTA
JP86SS
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https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...-released.html
This thread is where I post all the needed fixes if they are known.
If anybody finds something wrong... PLEASE POST IT!
GTA has my files (with fixes listed) so he's OK on them.
Did you get the WB reading ?
Select the bit for the RAW and use the ADS scaling I had setup for the 0-5 volt output of full scale. That's how you had run it before.
You are looking at the right table for OL idle as well as the main VE in the idle areas.
Also may help to reduce the O2 constants at idle for CL as well
(in O2 catergory of the XDF)
Lower them all (3 places IIRC) by 40 and see if that helps for CL idle.
Worked good for my 224/230 @ 112 cam with HSR.
There is a thread about idle settings and big cams in the Guide book.
Make a sig with your mods too. Guys offer suggestions thinking it is a reletively stock setup. Miniram and heads/cam throws a bit of complexity into it at idle.
This thread is where I post all the needed fixes if they are known.
If anybody finds something wrong... PLEASE POST IT!

GTA has my files (with fixes listed) so he's OK on them.
Did you get the WB reading ?
Select the bit for the RAW and use the ADS scaling I had setup for the 0-5 volt output of full scale. That's how you had run it before.
You are looking at the right table for OL idle as well as the main VE in the idle areas.
Also may help to reduce the O2 constants at idle for CL as well
(in O2 catergory of the XDF)
Lower them all (3 places IIRC) by 40 and see if that helps for CL idle.
Worked good for my 224/230 @ 112 cam with HSR.
There is a thread about idle settings and big cams in the Guide book.
Make a sig with your mods too. Guys offer suggestions thinking it is a reletively stock setup. Miniram and heads/cam throws a bit of complexity into it at idle.

Jp, hi
Thx for the reply, i sent you a few e-mails with bins to look at as i'm starting to pull out my hair with this...and yes a sig may be a good idea...
Thx for the reply, i sent you a few e-mails with bins to look at as i'm starting to pull out my hair with this...and yes a sig may be a good idea...
Hi Again...
well i am STILL having a cold no start condition. Here is more info on what is going on. I currently am running a Modded version of AUJP. I want to try to use the SAUJP V4 1026 to replace it. I have copied all the spark and fuel tables from my original to the 1026 version. When the car has the original AUJP bin installed it will fire instantly and run normal. When i upload the 1026 into the car it will NOT fire unless i touch the gas....then in a cloud of rich black smoke it will shake
sputter and keep running (barely) WB indicated a rich 10to 1 at inital start and will slowly lean out when it reaches closed loop ....perfect 14.7 is reached the idle is great! Now when i install the Modded version of AUJP the car will fire instantly settle into a great idle. Why the heck am i having so much trouble?
Has any one else had so much trouble getting SAUJP to start cold? If i could overcome this cold start issue i would love to run it....help? GTA....
well i am STILL having a cold no start condition. Here is more info on what is going on. I currently am running a Modded version of AUJP. I want to try to use the SAUJP V4 1026 to replace it. I have copied all the spark and fuel tables from my original to the 1026 version. When the car has the original AUJP bin installed it will fire instantly and run normal. When i upload the 1026 into the car it will NOT fire unless i touch the gas....then in a cloud of rich black smoke it will shake
sputter and keep running (barely) WB indicated a rich 10to 1 at inital start and will slowly lean out when it reaches closed loop ....perfect 14.7 is reached the idle is great! Now when i install the Modded version of AUJP the car will fire instantly settle into a great idle. Why the heck am i having so much trouble?
Has any one else had so much trouble getting SAUJP to start cold? If i could overcome this cold start issue i would love to run it....help? GTA....
Ok, back to basics here... I am maybe missing something, I am running TP/RT V5 build #5.00.4532.00 Along with XDF-FILE 8D_SAUJP_V4_0932007.xdf
Is this correct? My old AUJP will upload into the car and run no problem, But when i try to upload SAUJP V4 i get a cold no start condition ( very rich ) Have to hold gas to get it to fire. Am i using the correct things or am i missing something?? Help?...GTA
Is this correct? My old AUJP will upload into the car and run no problem, But when i try to upload SAUJP V4 i get a cold no start condition ( very rich ) Have to hold gas to get it to fire. Am i using the correct things or am i missing something?? Help?...GTA
Moderator
When using SAUJP V4 (the troublesome one), what does the BLM do once warmed up and in closed loop? That will show whether the VE table(s) and the injector flow values in the calibration are OK or off.
During cranking the IAC position is important. So be sure to check it via the scan tool between the two code versions.
During cranking the fueling is all PW based. It doesn't use the VE or SD calculations at all. There is a scalar value at $83AD that defines the injector flow rate. Then a series of tables based on CTS, TPS, BARO and which DRP (a counter) to calculate the desired PW.
Once running the open loop percent change versus CTS is used for the commanded AFR. It is a change from the stoich value in the calibration.
There is also an after start choke AFR that makes the commanded AFR even richer. This gets decayed out over time. Can be as long as 2 - 3 minutes on a 32* F CTS at cranking.
This is where I would start to get the cranking & open loop fueling in line.
RBob.
During cranking the IAC position is important. So be sure to check it via the scan tool between the two code versions.
During cranking the fueling is all PW based. It doesn't use the VE or SD calculations at all. There is a scalar value at $83AD that defines the injector flow rate. Then a series of tables based on CTS, TPS, BARO and which DRP (a counter) to calculate the desired PW.
Once running the open loop percent change versus CTS is used for the commanded AFR. It is a change from the stoich value in the calibration.
There is also an after start choke AFR that makes the commanded AFR even richer. This gets decayed out over time. Can be as long as 2 - 3 minutes on a 32* F CTS at cranking.
This is where I would start to get the cranking & open loop fueling in line.
RBob.
JP86SS
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Quote:
Get the latest version of TP from the site.Originally Posted by GTA
Ok, back to basics here... I am maybe missing something, I am running TP/RT V5 build #5.00.4532.00 Along with XDF-FILE 8D_SAUJP_V4_0932007.xdf Where did you get that XDF? (Not my numbering)
I sent you the updated files I use now. All are updated and the dash has multiple views.
Both bins have many changes that I do not undesrtand why they are at the values set,
best to start with the "BASE" file and try to figure what is causing the hard start.
The rest is ok once started?
Be selective in what you transfer from your old bin (use the files I sent or use the one from the 1026 package and update the couple of items listed in the thread above)
To copy values:
Code:
Load up your current bin in TP. Go to the "Compare" item on the menu Click "Load Compare bin" Select each of the files (4 total)Once they are loaded, go back and drop down the "compare" menu item again and select the bin who's VALUES YOU WANT TO COPY FROM (Check mark next to it) This is the file that the "compare" value is displayed when you open an item for editing.Now that they are loaded, go to the TOOLS menu item. Select "Difference Tool" (Now the fun part)The first box will default to your current loaded bin, Select the second bin you wish to see the differences from (Best to select the one you check marked earlier) editing is easier if you keep the selected files the same.Click "Search" and all the differences will be displayed. You can double click in the difference box and the item will open in the editor. (also showing the "selected" file value.)If you want to transfer the value from the compare bin just highlight the item (if its a table value) and click "Copy from Compare"Do that for all the values and you can easily transfer your old bin values and tables to the new one.Don't forget to save your bin before exiting TP.
JP, hi
would having the wrong XDF cause me grief when i try to upload the 1026 bin to my car? I went back to the file you sent me and now have XDF 8D_SAUJP_V4a.XDF . I'm going to try again to make a new data log today and see what will happen....GTA
would having the wrong XDF cause me grief when i try to upload the 1026 bin to my car? I went back to the file you sent me and now have XDF 8D_SAUJP_V4a.XDF . I'm going to try again to make a new data log today and see what will happen....GTA
JP86SS
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Quote:
Yes, there have been some updates to TP that could cause issues with an XDF if modified/saved in previous versions. (per Magnus's disclaimer, things can happen)Originally Posted by GTA
...now have XDF 8D_SAUJP_V4a.XDF The file "V4a" is the one that is packaged with the S_AUJP 1026.
Take a minute and go to the thread above and make the couple of corrections. doesn't take long to make the edits.
JP hi
I am unclear as to what you mean... i found the changes that you described but i dont know if i trust myself to do this correctly, And i also tried the update via the TP help screen and it does not get me the newer version must i go directly to the site to get it?? thx GTA....
I am unclear as to what you mean... i found the changes that you described but i dont know if i trust myself to do this correctly, And i also tried the update via the TP help screen and it does not get me the newer version must i go directly to the site to get it?? thx GTA....

Hi again,
well i'm still stuck on this 1026 file, i do however have some new info as per my data log with it. I trans fered my Lower VE table to it and tried to run as is. The Injector PW at cold start is in the 7.5 -8.0 range!!!! why the heck is it so high?
This very same VE table is in my original AUJP and the car lights right off with the same Injector PW of around 2.0 or so at cold start?!
any suggestions as to what table to check that directly controls the cold injector PW?
Also JP why does my original AUJP bin not show the WB data nor does the 1026 file? BUT the version that you sent me does? I checked via the difference tool and the are set the same??? thanks GTA....
well i'm still stuck on this 1026 file, i do however have some new info as per my data log with it. I trans fered my Lower VE table to it and tried to run as is. The Injector PW at cold start is in the 7.5 -8.0 range!!!! why the heck is it so high?
This very same VE table is in my original AUJP and the car lights right off with the same Injector PW of around 2.0 or so at cold start?!
any suggestions as to what table to check that directly controls the cold injector PW?
Also JP why does my original AUJP bin not show the WB data nor does the 1026 file? BUT the version that you sent me does? I checked via the difference tool and the are set the same??? thanks GTA....
JP86SS
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Quote:
The original AUJP does not have the code to read the input, scale it and send it to the ALDL data stream.Originally Posted by GTA
Also JP why does my original AUJP bin not show the WB data nor does the 1026 file? BUT the version that you sent me does? I checked via the difference tool and the are set the same??? thanks GTA.... The 1026 file you have must be FUBAR if the one I sent works and yours doesn't. No good answer for that.
You have mail with clean definitions for editing and logging.
Let me know if that helps starting fresh.
JP hi,
well i got the new clean version ...and i still have a real hard start problem, i lowered the entire VE table (lower) down 5 points across the board, when warmed up it sits right at 128 +/- 2-3 , this is driving me crazy. Maybe i shall give some info about the set up, it is a Super Ram / AFR headed 350. Running 1/58 slp headers dual cat car. I have a very mild cam as well. I like the SAUJP version but this crappy starting is driving me crazy, Has any one else had issues with the SAUJP fueling tables being very rich? thanks GTA....
well i got the new clean version ...and i still have a real hard start problem, i lowered the entire VE table (lower) down 5 points across the board, when warmed up it sits right at 128 +/- 2-3 , this is driving me crazy. Maybe i shall give some info about the set up, it is a Super Ram / AFR headed 350. Running 1/58 slp headers dual cat car. I have a very mild cam as well. I like the SAUJP version but this crappy starting is driving me crazy, Has any one else had issues with the SAUJP fueling tables being very rich? thanks GTA....

JP86SS
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Update for anyone following...
Confirmed, Only changes to his bin are VE table, fan temps, Inj contant.
I hope we have found the issue.
Log indicates Code 51 error but no SES light ???
PW from 6 to 8+ (bouncing to 10) at idle (850 RPM) made me think RFD and memcal values possibly.
Has 8D in the bins that have been tried, Using Ostrich.
Can't find where to set the "AA" automatically in the engineering byte (TP beta). Maybe this is done behind the scenes now when selecting an emulator.
Anyhow, Will try AA in the bin and see if that fixes it.
Maybe the checksum definition needs tweaked...
Confirmed, Only changes to his bin are VE table, fan temps, Inj contant.
I hope we have found the issue.
Log indicates Code 51 error but no SES light ???
PW from 6 to 8+ (bouncing to 10) at idle (850 RPM) made me think RFD and memcal values possibly.
Has 8D in the bins that have been tried, Using Ostrich.
Can't find where to set the "AA" automatically in the engineering byte (TP beta). Maybe this is done behind the scenes now when selecting an emulator.
Anyhow, Will try AA in the bin and see if that fixes it.
Maybe the checksum definition needs tweaked...
Update....
Well i disabled the checksum i placed "AA" in the bin where I was told but i still have the very high PW at cold start, and STILL have the code 51 error with no SES light at all?? Any ideas?? I'm not going to start the engine again untill i have a confirmed NO code 51 as the fueling problem cant be good for the engine. GTA...
Well i disabled the checksum i placed "AA" in the bin where I was told but i still have the very high PW at cold start, and STILL have the code 51 error with no SES light at all?? Any ideas?? I'm not going to start the engine again untill i have a confirmed NO code 51 as the fueling problem cant be good for the engine. GTA...
Hi again...
Well folks i finally have SAUJP running with #24 injectors!... it has a slight stumble at first start but she runs....NO ses light I was able to get rid of my code #51 tho, I dont know what i did! I checked all of my connections Ostrich, Moates adapter, etc all are connected tightly but after some fiddling and batt disconnect it uploaded the SAUJP bin and shows no error codes when running! My BLM @ INT shoot down almost to 80-90 so i am guessing that i need to pull fuel out of the entire table to start but any suggestions are welcome, JP thanks for all your help! And all who responded to my post, this tuning thing is very adictive and frustrating at the same time
One thing has changed tho i can No longer use my wireless BT adapter for the ostrich, i get a failed response every time!! I have to manually connect the ostrich to my lappy to make a change or upload anything, GTA....
Well folks i finally have SAUJP running with #24 injectors!... it has a slight stumble at first start but she runs....NO ses light I was able to get rid of my code #51 tho, I dont know what i did! I checked all of my connections Ostrich, Moates adapter, etc all are connected tightly but after some fiddling and batt disconnect it uploaded the SAUJP bin and shows no error codes when running! My BLM @ INT shoot down almost to 80-90 so i am guessing that i need to pull fuel out of the entire table to start but any suggestions are welcome, JP thanks for all your help! And all who responded to my post, this tuning thing is very adictive and frustrating at the same time
One thing has changed tho i can No longer use my wireless BT adapter for the ostrich, i get a failed response every time!! I have to manually connect the ostrich to my lappy to make a change or upload anything, GTA....
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Quote:
One thing has changed tho i can No longer use my wireless BT adapter for the ostrich, i get a failed response every time!! I have to manually connect the ostrich to my lappy to make a change or upload anything, GTA....
That right there says a lot about just how far we have come with the ease of tuning these things. Just imagine guys were doing all this with hex editors and UV erasers not too long ago. Now its an "inconvenience" to have to physically plug in. I love it.One thing has changed tho i can No longer use my wireless BT adapter for the ostrich, i get a failed response every time!! I have to manually connect the ostrich to my lappy to make a change or upload anything, GTA....
And congrats on getting it running, youre in for a lot of fun.

