DIY PROM Do It Yourself PROM chip burning help. No PROM begging. No PROMs for sale. No commercial exchange. Not a referral service.

02 sensor cross counts Q?

Old Mar 6, 2012 | 11:26 AM
  #1  
Ronny's Avatar
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
20 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,880
Likes: 4
From: wisconsin
02 sensor cross counts Q?

I understand the NB02 sensor reads the quantity of 02 in exhaust vs that of the atmosphere. Approx once evey second it does the CC and moves from rich to lean. I believe the rich lean is a actual read of the unburned 02. It produces an average of A/F.

what causes the A/F to change every .5 second ?

Is it the ECU staggering the PW to produce the rich/lean rich lean scenario?

I presume it is necessary as that is how a NB works.

I believe this is specific to NB vs WB sensor. Is this done for economy of cost of NB? Cheaper production cost?
Reply
Old Mar 6, 2012 | 01:37 PM
  #2  
dimented24x7's Avatar
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,962
Likes: 5
From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
Re: 02 sensor cross counts Q?

Depending on how things are set up, usually the prop. Gain and the rich/lean window thresholds causes the cycling as its purposefully set up to not be stable. IOW, its prone to oscillations, which is desired in a NB O2 control routine. The speed at which it switches is determined by the gain, exhaust flowrate, and the execution rate of the PID algo.

As far as why this is necessary is that the nb od has a very steep reponse, almost like a switch, so you can't hold one fixed setpoint as its non linear. This also provides a diagnostic as a slow or non switching O2 indicates a dead sensor.

Last edited by dimented24x7; Mar 6, 2012 at 01:41 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 6, 2012 | 01:46 PM
  #3  
Ronny's Avatar
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
20 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,880
Likes: 4
From: wisconsin
Re: 02 sensor cross counts Q?

Thank you. I read RBobs paper many times. Still not clear on what the trigger is to bring it to cycle. Is it the 02 sensor itself that triggers the oscillation? I just cant grasp why the prop gains and the rich lean thresholds can trigger that flip flop.
Reply
Old Mar 6, 2012 | 05:07 PM
  #4  
34blazer's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 848
Likes: 0
From: Alamogordo, NM
Car: '86 Grand National
Engine: LZ9????
Transmission: 2004R
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Re: 02 sensor cross counts Q?

Originally Posted by Ronny
Thank you. I read RBobs paper many times. Still not clear on what the trigger is to bring it to cycle. Is it the 02 sensor itself that triggers the oscillation? I just cant grasp why the prop gains and the rich lean thresholds can trigger that flip flop.
the O2 constants tables set the upper/lower window and another table contains the swingpoint(or mid point?). there is also another parameter that determines which side of the swingpoint the O2 values are on and which direction its moving(rich/lean). the ecm adjusts PW (depending on a few other things) to move the O2 values either way. the NBO2 just spits out voltage.

*based on my own observations*

the proportional gain determines how aggressive the PW is adjusted
Reply
Old Mar 7, 2012 | 09:10 AM
  #5  
Ronny's Avatar
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
20 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,880
Likes: 4
From: wisconsin
Re: 02 sensor cross counts Q?

the O2 constants tables set the upper/lower window and another table contains the swingpoint(or mid point?). there is also another parameter that determines which side of the swingpoint the O2 values are on and which direction its moving(rich/lean)
So the swing action for lack of a better word is caused by a change of PW instigated by the ECU?
Reply
Old Mar 7, 2012 | 09:56 AM
  #6  
EagleMark's Avatar
Supreme Member
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 0
From: Idaho
Re: 02 sensor cross counts Q?

Yes the cross counts are from the ECU to keep at a steady average of .45 volts, 14.7 to 1 stoich.

Wide Band measure AFR and does not have cross counts to keep at one ratio.

The sensor does not begin to generate it's full output until it reaches about 600 degrees F. Prior to this time the sensor is not conductive. It is as if the circuit between the sensor and computer is not complete. The mid point is about 0.45 volts. This is neither rich nor lean. A fully warm O2 sensor *will not spend any time at 0.45 volts*. In many cars, the computer sends out a bias voltage of 0.45 through the O2 sensor wire. If the sensor is not warm, or if the circuit is not complete, the computer picks up a steady 0.45 volts. Since the computer knows this is an "illegal" value, it judges the sensor to not be ready. It remains in open loop operation, and uses all sensors except the O2 to determine fuel delivery. The O2 sensor is constantly in a state of transition between high and low voltage. Manfucturers call this crossing of the 0.45 volt mark O2 cross counts. The higher the number of O2 cross counts, the better the sensor and other parts of the computer control system are working. It is important to remember that the O2 sensor is comparing the amount of Oxygen inside and outside the engine.
Reply
Old Mar 7, 2012 | 10:08 AM
  #7  
Ronny's Avatar
Thread Starter
TGO Supporter
20 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,880
Likes: 4
From: wisconsin
Re: 02 sensor cross counts Q?

Thanks to all.

Next session is to explain why there is a leap year !
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
db057
TBI
3
Jan 10, 2020 08:55 PM
PurelyPMD
Camaros for Sale
27
May 5, 2016 04:57 PM
bbsr72
TPI
3
Apr 2, 2016 09:12 AM
luvofjah
Engine/Drivetrain/Suspension Parts for Sale
13
Sep 26, 2015 08:28 PM
sreZ28
Carburetors
24
Sep 21, 2015 04:54 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:21 PM.