Ok so i just dumped 490.00 bucks for this stupid efi tuning ecm and well come to find out it still doesnt help im a brand new tuner first time ever doing this s***. for 490.00 bucks i expected it to be kinda plug and play but apperently it isnt for one there are no basic bins/programs in the ecm to even start the car to have a base line of where to go from there like i dont freaking get it can anybody help me out before i return this thing and get my money back

 

wow, relax a bit. As delivered the EBL ECMs have a base BIN is every bank. With the EBL Flash product (the one you purchased) there are an additional 30-some BINs included with the system.

Four of those are specifically for TPI engines.

Insert the EBL CD and the install dialog should open, finish that install. There will be two Desktop shortcuts created along with an EBL Flash Program Group. From there can open the help documents along with opening the user BINs folder.

See the Intro to Tuning Parts 1 & 2 on our website. The first is a tutorial on getting started with TunerPro and the What's Up Display (WUD).

RBob.

 

Yea well thats the thing i been trying to get this thing to communicate for the last 4 hours u dont wanna respond to my emails etc etc etc like why cant u understand im brand new to this like i wanna learn how to do this but i have no body to help me out i finally got how the bins to pop up in tunerpro but now i cant get none of the com's to open or the red indicator to tell me that the wud is recieveing data from the ebl

 

The com port thing can be frustrating. And that's a problem with your computer- not EBL.

Sometimes it takes my laptop a minute to find the com port- seems like that happens right after Windows does an update. Try going through the control panel > hardware and sound > device manager. See if your computer is able to identify the port it is hooked up to.

BTW- You did get it wired in correctly, right? You hear the fuel pump kick over when you rotate the key forward, right?

 

Yea well here is another thing it is saying that the usb/serial adaptor isnt even installed that it is missing a driver/software or some bs thing it needs i wasted another 4 hours tonight trying to get this thing to recieve one of the bins from the ebl but as usual i been trying to get help from bob but that aint working and yes when i turn the key forward im getting the fuel pump prime and also pumping when going to attempt to start

 

Your first email came in at 8:21 PM (last night). Then two more later. Contrary to popular belief I do sleep from time to time.

As for the USB/Serial adapter, the included CD has the install instructions on it along with the required drivers. The product page for the USB/Serial adapter on our site also has a link directly to FTDI for the same information.

As for getting the USB drivers installed. Look at the instructions for the O/S you are running on your laptop. Due to changes Microsoft made the install varies among the different versions of Windows. And when doing this only plug the USB/Serial adapter cable into your laptop. Leave it disconnected from the ECM.

Also, some laptops have the FTDI drivers partially installed. This causes all kinds of problems. So may need to uninstall the current driver, then proceed to install fresh from the CD.

RBob.

 

Ok so once this is installed will this start recieveing the data from ebl flash and will it open the com port ??????

Im sorry for getting upset i just really wanna get this damn car running its been sitting for almost 3 years and all i can do is crank the motor to let oil build up and keep everything lubed i actually wanna hear this new rebuilt motor run and run strong

 

Yes, note that you do need to select the com port assigned to the adapter in the WUD. Link to page that shows how to see which port to use:

http://www.dynamicefi.com/USB2SerialSetup.php

I do need to ask, is there a reason it wouldn't run with the stock ECM? Also, be sure to go through the sensors with the WUD and make sure that they are reporting correctly before trying to start the engine.

RBob.

 

it would run but im using a t5 and since gm didn't make a prom with the 350 with a standard transmission plus I also installed the hsr setup so I can rev all the way to 6000 ill be able to make a bin that allows the t5 and rev all the way to 6000rpm unlike the factory program that only allowed up to 4400-4800 to make decent power

 

Rbob i got the serial adaptor installed yesterday night finally now that the com port is open does this mean ill be able to get the data now from the ebl to show up on wud also can u take one of the bins from the list and use that to start the car

 

Yep, connect the comm cable to the EBL and do a key-on, engine-off. The spinner should start as data arrives. Push on the go-pedal and the TPS% vertical gauge should follow. The MAP should be around 102 KPa, if you have a mity-vac can connect it to the sensor port and lower the KPa reading.

Make sure that the CRS and MAT/IAT read close to each other and at the ambient temperature.

As for which BIN to use, try the 3006 (5.7l stick, TPI). It has more spark advance then a truck Vortec BIN, but it is likely OK in the lighter GTA. If you have larger injectors should change the BPC vs VAC table to accommodate them.

RBob.

 

Ok i dont have a iat in my 88 harness i do have the manifold air temp sensor though do i need a iat and also how would i wire into the harness

Next question what is the bpc vac table like i said totally new to this and also on the tps sensor should i only have power on pin c which is the .5 volts or should the the other 2 pins have power as well

Last question how do i go about wiring in the ac compressor wiring since i have no power to that as well

 

An IAT is a MAT that has been relocated.

Need to use the EBL Utility, it will calculate and allow a copy & paste of the BPC vs VAC table values.

Pin A will be ground, pin B will vary with throttle position, pin C will be +5 volts. Pin C is where to tap in to power the MAP sensor.

Nothing to do with the ECM. The ECM only gets the A/C active signal from the compressor clutch to know when to enable the fan.

RBob.

 

I am using larger injectors how do i go about setting the values like what numbers am i going to put in to make it run correctly

 

As I posted use the EBL Utility, it was installed onto your laptop. The Help dialog explains the entries. Once the information is entered the BPC vs VAC values will be listed.

Can even copy & paste from the table into TunerPro.

RBob.

 

Ok bob im trying to add the bpc vs vac i added in the calculate number which is 179.00 from 0 all the way down to 60 when i add the 179.00 to all the multi tables and try to save it, it doesnt allow me to save the changes where am i going wrong now

 

Laptop security is set too high, need to run TunerPro and the WUD as an administrator. Close them, then right click on the Desktop shortcut. From there need to find the line that states "Run program as Administrator."

It may be in the pop up menu, or select the Properties entry and under the compatibility tab. Check-mark that line once found (varies over the various Windows versions).

Once that is done may need to reboot.

RBob.

 

Ok so i switched it over to run as admistration for both and it allowed me to change the bpc vs vac table.

Next question is how do i go about deleting egr and tcc since i don't have egr hooked and im running a t5 so no tcc is there do i just go and delete the tables or should i leave them

 

The EGR is already disabled in the supplied calibrations. As for having a stick trans, un-check this flag:

Option Word 2 - Bit 7 - TCC

RBob.

 

hey another question now that I got mostly everything hooked up and working right how do I go about getting the car to idle smooth it also seems that it running way to rich do I use ve learn table or totally something else

 

Likely need to increase the idle RPM, along with doing VE Learns.

RBob.

 

Increase the idle rpm in tuner pro or just on the throttle body

 

TunerPro:

IAC - Idle Speed: Drive
IAC - Idle Speed: Park/Neut

Once the engine is up to temperature can then adjust the idle stop screw to get between 20 and 25 steps. This is with no other loads on the engine.

RBob.

 

Ok so what would i set it to exactly in tunerpro do i just increase it by like 5 and see how it is from there

 

Howdy all,
Reading all these posts, I'm wondering if I too should take on the challenge of a PLUG-N-PLAY unit. Is all this frustration really worth 20-25 HP? I have never heard anyone having this much trouble with a carb set-ups. How much power can be had by tweeking the ECM on a TPI??

 

If you look at the tables you will note that they are in actual engine RPM.

RBob.

 

Ok so i was playing around with it and it kinda smoothed out a little bit i think timing is a little off so i think i gotta get that dialed in correctly also now seems like its running way to rich. One thing i did notice is there is no slight hez when touching the gas quickly climbs right up with no pause but i think timing is still off what do u think can still be wrong with it

 

How are the VE Learns going? Need to get the VE roughed in before moving on to other tuning items. Check the BLM values, if far from 128 need to do more learns.

RBob.

 

Ok so come to find out im way to advanced on base timing if that makes sense thats with the ecm plug bypassed it does fire up and run but not a smooth idle at all

 

Set the base timing to 8* BTDC, also set that in the BIN, this parameter:

SA - Initial SA

This is to be done on a warm engine with the EST/BYPASS connector open. Once this is done all further timing changes are to be made in the BIN.

RBob.

 

Yea i finally got to playing around on it last night instead of 8 btdc inset it at 6 btdc and it fired right up motor only turned have a turn and ran on its own after ill do these adjustments to the bin and then go from there

 

Ok so i played around with it set it at 6 degrees btdc and let it warmed up idle was still crappy even turning the dist after it warmed up to about 200 degree i turned it off disconnected battery plugged in est bypass hooked bat back up and tried starting it and it didnt want to run where the hell did i go wrong now rbob im really about to send it to a tuning shop and let them deal with it cause im getting fed up

 

I'm not sure of exactly what you did. Sounds like you set the base timing to 6* BTDC, then changed it after the engine warmed up? What does the spark timing do once the EST/BYPASS is reconnected? Does it go advanced or retarded?

It is beginning to look like there are mechanical issues with the engine.

RBob.

 

I just read this whole thread, my goodness lol...

Can you at least upload a copy of the bin you're using to look at...?

 

Larger injectors? How large?

179 BPC? seems like smaller?

Are you using a vafpr?

 

I went by the ebl utility to get that number and also what is Vafpr I'll try to see if I can copy and paste it tonight or even try sending it a attachment

 

Craig, the BPC is fine as it is higher on port injected engines. Note that the FPR is vacuum referenced, which is stock for TPI engines.

A BIN can be attached directly, while a .dat data log needs to be zipped first.

I'm still not sure what you did with the distributor physical base timing.

RBob.

 

ok how would I send the bin for everyone to look at

 

Ok rbob so im just gonna send it to a tuning shop to get this thing squared away now no matter what timing degrees i set it at it doesnt want to start or idle just bucks and chugs like terribly like i ****ed something up internally and if so im throwing in the towel on this freaking car i thought getting this ebl kit would have helped and made it easy for me to get this thing running the correct way but i guess not i should have just got a chip burned and called it a day but if u know anything else it could be i would greatly love to know if not then to the tuning shop it goes

 

At the risk of sounding crude... I think there is a gap between expectations, tenacity, and positive results.

GM engineers spend hundreds of hours on a tune. I remember reading in the book "All Corvettes Are Red"- the story of the C5 Vette- some of the trips out on snow and ice tuning the traction control didn't go as planned. Or even that the initial crash tests proved the chassis was too rigid and it killed the dummies (lack of crumple zones).

My point is this stuff- tuning- takes time. The more non-stock your car... the longer it will take.

When you take it to a shop, you'll eat a tow and then likely they will replace the ECM with another and throw EBL in the trash. If you want it to leave the shop running well... most shops won't likely mess with it because their business model is around efficiency and unless they are familiar with EBL- they won't have time to sit and play with it as long as you would.

This is almost an art.

If you look around at TGO and the tuning community here- some of the guys here you'll see are mechanics, racers, etc. The rest of us folks just know enough to be dangerous and to ask others for help.

I've been working on my tune for about a year and a half. I was also new to tuning. Sure- I had my SA table down in about the first six months... had bad IACs, a bad WB connector, needed a VAFPR, and a whole host of other things... but it has always been that: a learning journey. I'm working on small things nowadays. Like tweaks to AE. I'm pretty comfortable that I have most of it sorted out

I've been perplexed by all kinds of stuff. I've asked a load of questions. It's a lot of trial and error. Set up a BIN... datalog it... read data to confirm problems... make adjustments... revert back if I need it.

Tenacity- you need tenacity to get the tune where you want it. Tuning is NOT going to be an overnight epiphany for anyone who is new to it. Sure... you could get a decent burn from someone... or maybe not. It may run- but it might be too lean in PE mode- who knows. When you can't validate with data logging how do you know how good a mail order tune is? I'm not saying anything bad about tuners- there are some folks who are really good. What I am saying is that they will take their best guess from what they know and tools available- and will send you a chip.

With EBL- you can ALWAYS tweak the tune to your needs. And you can validate it with data (WUD). You can expand what it monitors (ADC channels).

And while you aren't seeing results yet- you are clearly getting frustrated. This isn't easy for anyone who hasn't done it before.

If anything, if you are still taking it to a shop... have the shop check to validate or set you base timing. If it holds a decent idle- leave the EBL in the car and limp it home. Everything starts with your basic mechanical settings. Then... move to VE learns and adjust it from there. You have a non-stock combination and the more non-stock it is... the more work you'll have ahead of you to tune it. There's only so much a stock tune can compensate for before you need to adjust things.

I know this wasn't what you wanted to hear.

But if you stick it out and keep at it... YOU WILL EVENTUALLY FIGURE IT OUT.

Don't let the challenges beat you- beat the challenges.

 

Hey soarestransam... I've looked over the BIN you attached.

For starters, your SA table looks identical to the BIN for an L98. Your signature says Vortec heads.

... you are going to have too much timing (from the L98 calibration) for your heads (Vortec).

Look for "EBL_F_3000.BIN: 5.7l Vortec Main & Extended SA Tables only" with the files that come with EBL and paste those SA tables into your BIN's SA tables.

If your engine is attempting to idle at or around 800-1000rpms between 50-70 KPAs and you are using the L98 SA tables... you have too much advance. Like 10-14 degrees too much.

See if that helps.

 

Ok for one i pulled thenplugs out and they arent burnt black so im gonna get new plugs and switch them, second ill try that bin 5.7 vortec bin and see what happens

Do you think because the plugs being burnt black would cause it not to start im just hoping i didnt lose compression or something mechanical failed dont fail like dumping 1000-2000 bucks on a rebuild this motor literally has like 5000 miles on it since tue rebuild in 2011

 

If the plugs are oily... you may have an oil problem.

If they are wet... you may have a compression problem.

If they are sooty... you are running too rich.

I would guess that your plugs are fowling because it is running too rich. When you advance the timing too far, you end up with additional unburnt fuel... which could explain your fowling plugs.

If your plugs were good previously, perhaps you can clean them off if they aren't trashed. Go ahead and use the Vortec spark tables. See if it will idle better. Then work on setting the minimum idle speed. After that, go do some VE learns.

 

Your Initial Timing is 6* BTDC in the bin, so make sure you set it there by hand and keep it there with the EST disconnected. Once you verify that is where it is on the balancer with a timing light, tighten the distributor, reconnect the EST, and don't touch it anymore. Your Idle SA is 20* BTDC which is fine, it goes hand and hand with the SA Main Table you are using. Pull your plugs, clean them off, reinstall them. Confirm your spark plug wires are on correctly and are in the correct firing order, confirm your fuel pressure is correct (43.5) and confirm your fuel pump is good and not losing pressure after key off. If all of this is confirmed, and you exhibit no vacuum leaks when idling, and you didn't touch any other value in the bin other than your BPC vs VAC, Initial SA and Idle State SA, then I would suspect it is somewhere in the data you are entering in the BPC Utility Tool; either the numbers you are entering are not being entered correctly, or the numbers themselves are flawed, meaning your injectors might not be what you think they are. Confirm your injector size, and if possible, give a screen shot of the Utility Tool information collectively...

 

Streetlethal thanks for the pic this helps out alot also corvette ill remove them and replace them for the 6 btdc ill set it at that and call it a day im going to use the 5.7 vortec bin and start from scratch now for plugs i cant use regular ac delco ones i need shorty plugs that accel use because if not they rub on the headers is there any other plugs beside the accel ones i could use

 

Remember that the system uses the information that you tell it to, and that mechanically everything has to be okay. So long as your base timing (by hand) matches what your Initial Timing is in your bin, and that your injector flow rate calculation is spot on in the Utility, then it is just a matter of starting the engine and doing three to five quick VE Learns to dial it all in. The only problems that will occur normally come from a wiring or bad sensor issue (the Display/Malf box in the WUD will tell you if it is a possible wiring issue, and the Sensor Diagnostic screen in the WUD will tell you if it is a bad sensor), a spark issue, or a fueling issue. Make sure the WUD is showing no SES codes, make sure that the Sensor Diagnostic screen is showing the correct values for each sensor, make sure your fuel pressure and injector size is good and correct, and that your timing is spot on. Once this is all confirmed and verified, the VE Learns can begin, and you can really begin to enjoy the experience. The next datalog you conduct when you get the engine running again after you clean off the fouled plugs, save it, then send it to one of us in a private email to take a look at it...

 

While you are there pulling plugs.... check your wires to make sure they aren't melted. Like someone else said- check that you have the wires running to the right cylinders. People confuse plugs 4 & 7 sometimes on the cap.

Oh- and check the gaps on your plugs too- make sure they all have the right gaps.

Keep at it...

 

Mechanical/engine condition and component issues make tuning difficult. It all has to be right -first. I tuned for months before I figured out the plugs I was using were a tic too cold and due to my combo I was trying to run a little too rich and after a week or so of "progress" it would go south because the plug would start to foul. I would chase it for another week, or month until starting over. Then the weather changes and exposes some short cut I took and I end up starting over again. I also had to learn what to expect and what was acceptable for my combo. I tuned my prior engine for 2-3 years before building this engine and tuned it for about a year before going with the EBL. Now I have a little over a year tuning it and I have only recently been driving a certain tune for more than a day or two. My point is it does take commitment if I want good results. It's no different that carbs and distributors. There are lots of details with them too. It's not just jets but pump cams, air bleeds, float levels etc. But when I do start my EFI in the cold it runs with no operator input and runs consistent. In the end the EFI and EBL is worth the effort. But if you don't have patience, aptitude and stick with it you can't tune either one.

 

Hey corv3tt3 so i used that bin f-3000 was i only suppose to use the sa table and main table and load that into the current one im using or totally start over with that one cause if so then i messed up i ended up using the f-3000 bin and changing most of the tables

 

Off subject of tuning but are you running the correct spark plugs for the vortec heads? They have a longer reach into the combustion chamber vs the standard sbc plugs.

Vortec plug on the left in picture.