Having some trouble getting it to idle in drive, it idles fine in park and neutral or when the car is cold but once it warms up it struggles to hold idle when I come to a stop in drive, any info would be awesome! Let me know if you need more info on the motor itself to help out
Thanks!

 

Did you do a VE learn in gear during low idle speed w/the engine fully warmed up yet...?

 

Yes I've done a few, it got a little better but still has trouble when warm

 

Can you upload your bin for us...?

 

heres the most recent BIN after the VE learns

 

I'm seeing a 355-SBC with 27-lb injectors running a "0" Spark Reference and 16* Idle State. First thing you need to do is confirm that your base timing by hand matches your spark reference, so if your base timing by hand is 6* or 8* degrees, change that 0 spark reference in the bin to either 6* or 8* degrees to match it. I would also raise that Idle State up to 22*. Once both of these are corrected and verified, do another VE Learn...

 

Here is a picture for reference...;

 

Changed both of those and it seems to help a bit but I notice on the WUD when I start it cold the cAFR is around 13.5 and I start having the problems after it warms up it goes to 14.7...is this normal?

 

Also I did another VE learn and showed no changes

 

Yes, 14.7 is stoich, that is your air/fuel target when in idle with a fully warmed engine. When the engine is cold, the air is much more dense, so more fuel is needed to compensate for the dense air until the engine eventually warms itself up to it's target temperature, usually between 170 to 200 degrees (depending on owner preference), and as it warms up, more fuel is pulled to maintain stoich...

 

Make sure the Learns are taking place during and within the specified temperature ranges that are set in the WUD, if the engine temperature is outside of this range, no Learns will take place even if needed...

 

Okay so the issue begins around 185-200 degrees...I should be doing the VE learns before this range or between this range?
Also do you want me to send a data log?
By the way thanks for all the help and the speedy replies I really appreciate it 👍🏻

 

Go into your WUD preferences and double check the settings for the VE Learn temperature range (see pic below). If your thermostat opens at 170 degrees, and your fans come on at say 190 degrees, then that is the range you want to target, between 170 and 190 (minimum and maximum). The VE Learn screen that shows the changes will light up Green letting you know it is ready to Learn because it is within those ranges...

 

Just checked that and it appears to be good

 

And when I do a learn it shows up in green but the values are 0s for the idle RPMs when I loaded the initial tune and did some learns it was changing,I believe the VE learn is working properly

 

Good deal. So the next VE Learn you start, wait until the engine reaches your minimum setting, then begin the VE Learn. Observe the VE Learn screen as it is doing so, and confirm that the cursor is Green in color. If it is not Green (out of range), it is not going to Learn, even when needed. If you have a datalog by all means post it up, I would like to see it as well. I haven't looked at the SA Main Table just yet, but it is possible that your SA Main Table is playing tug of war with the Idle State, so make sure your idle area in SA Main Table averages close to the Idle State...

 

Good deal, I'm going to look at the SA Main Table right now...

 

Okay cool I'll do at data log now and post it, I'll start the data log at full operating temp and shift into drive so you can see what it's doing

 

The SA Main Table is completely off, it looks like a Main Table for a TBI bin (which explains the 0 spark reference). Here is your current SA Main Table (top one see below), followed by an L98 SA Main Table underneath it. Cut and paste the L98 values from the picture below (bin 3005 in the EBL folder) into your bin and save it, then Flash it in...;

 

So I did that and still stalling when I put it in gear and still 0s in the VE learn

 

It's your bin, the initital bin was not TPI specific, it appears as if a TBI bin was used, so other areas will be way off as well. Save your current bin and put it to the side. Now, starting with a fresh bin using 3005, go into the new starter bin (3005) and rename it something new, change the engine displacement to 355, change the injector flow to 27-lbs, confirm the Initial SA and Idle State SA, and start the engine. Do a quick VE Learn, and see how she feels with the correct data from an L98...

 

okay ill try that and see what happens here my data log if it makes a difference

 

Where is it...?

 

for some reason its not letting me upload it now lol

 

Doing a VE learn as we speak don't wanna speak to soon but so far that new bin seems to have fixed the problem!!!!

 

You're going to have a huge smile on your face once you take it for a test drive. The change in the spark advance table alone will have you grinning ear to ear...

 

Thanks again!!!! Taking on the test drive now I'll let you know how it goes....already grinning lol

 

Running and idleing much better, still stumbles a little bit some times when I come to a red light but it won't completely stall out like before, just idles a little rough/surges...could a few more VE learns fix this or should i adjust something else manually? In the tune?

 

This sounds like it is somewhere in the IAC settings. First thing we need to confirm is how much vacuum your camshaft is pulling in idle, is it an aftermarket cam with a decent amount of duration, or is it a more tame camshaft? Remember that in these stock bins, the IAC is programmed to hold your idle at 625-RPM in Park/Neutral, and 600-RPM in Drive, which is too low for a more aggressive camshaft. First things first, go into your bin and adjust these two settings and raise them accordingly (in increments) based on how much camshaft you are running. For reference, I am running a 305 with a 23x/23x camshaft, and I have these two settigs in my tune at 900-RPM in Park/Neutral and 750-RPM in Drive...;

IAC - Idle Speed Drive
IAC - Idle Speed Park/Neutral

Now, the surging is just from the IAC forcing the RPM back and forth trying to balance the IAC steps in conjunction with how much air your camshaft needs to avoid stalling out due to the increased duration. The IAC - Max Steps setting is already where it needs to be in the stock 3004 bin, as that should already be set at the highest setting of 145 steps (wide open throttle). However, when you are idling, or driving, your steps are programmed to be much lower to match where your kpa is hovering, and as you can already imagine by this explanation, the area for the stock IAC steps setting in the 3004 bin have a low setting because the camshaft in the L98 is very small. When you are coming to a red light, the steps are already way too low for the camshaft that you are running, so it is very hard for the IAC to recover and make a smooth transition, so it stumbles a little because the IAC is returning to its' original position, which is too little. Go into your bin and raise these settings (in increments) until you feel the stumble go away completely as you come to a stop. There are four IAC step areas to change in conjunction with kpa, add between 5-10% in the step boxes for each, the stock step values are 32, 30, 24, 20. If you do not want to add to it percentage wise, just try a new setting of 42, 40, 34, 30. This will make sure the IAC steps do not go lower than these step settings when these values are being used (a lower IAC step number means the IAC is closing, a high number means it is opening, and more camshaft needs more air throughout engine operation)...;

IAC - Initial Position vs Baro

Do the same as above for the following location in the bin, add to the four step values in the same manner in increments...;

IAC - Stall Saver vs Baro

Now for the most important part of this process. When you are datalogging, or when you are observing the WUD screen at idle. Watch your IAC steps very carefully as the engine idles, when you apply throttle, and when you blip the throttle. If the IAC does not reach the new commanded values in your bin, or just appears to be sluggish, then you need to adjust the fast idle screw on the throttle body itself in increments to help increase airflow. Not too much, just enough until the values in the IAC settings can be reached and maintained...

 

Going to try all of this, if it helps you out at all the cam is a 268/276 advertised duration and 218/224 @.050
Not sure if that points you in a direction of changes that need to be made or not...also when adjusting the
IAC-idle speed park/neutral
IAC-idle speed drive
Should I increase all the values or just certain ones?

 

That is a nice camshaft, not too big. The areas that show 600-RPM & 625-RPM only, those are the values you want to change to reflect a slightly higher idle. Maybe 800-RPM in P/N and 700-RPM in Drive. The values above them need to remain the same as they are high like that because that is during your engines warm up stage, when you convert Celsius to Fahrenheit to the left of those numbers you will see what I mean. As engine temperature increases from cold to warm, the RPM will settle from high to where you want it...

For those other areas I mentioned, increasing the IAC steps in those two locations will stop the kpa from dragging the IAC steps down (more closed) allowing the engine to recover properly (like a choke). Cracking the throttle body open a tad with the fast idle screw will essentially do the same thing, but fix it in the bin first, then if you find it needs help, you can crack open the throttle body some. But considering the size of the camshaft, you might not have to touch the throttle body...

 

Here is another pic for reference;

IAC - Idle Speed Drive (make everything under 700-RPM remain 700-RPM)...

IAC - Idle Speed P/N (make everything under 825-RPM remian 825-RPM)...

In the upper two grids just add "10" to each step value...

 

Man you are probably the biggest help I've ever gotten from a forum ever lol, I've been messing with it on and off all day, deffinetly idleing 100x better then when I first started, it will hold a pretty steady idle now, has a hiccup every now and than but not near as bad as before, how ever when I shift from park to drive it will either drop low in rpm (500ish) and then surge once backup to its idle (around 700-750) and then idle fine, or it will stall completely,

 

Go into these four grids...

IAC - Stall Saver RPM's;

Do you see how the stall saver enters in at 475-RPM but then exits at 650-RPM? This was based on your original idle 625-RPM in Park/Neutral. Being that you set your idle to 825-RPM as your Park/Neutral setting, go into this grid and change the exit RPM value of 650 to 850...

IAC - TF Gain;

Raise these TF Gain values only a small percentage at a time, and test accordingly...

IAC - Park to Drive Steps;

Raise in small increments until the transition from Park to Drive is smooth...

BLM - Idle Cell RPM Threshold;

This needs to be raised due to the increase in your Idle RPM, change the value from 800-RPM to 1000-RPM...

 

Been trying a these and doesn't seem to be helping, it actually seems like the surging is back

 

Mike send me a datalog .dat file, I will PM you my email.

 

Mike, I am going to update this thread for future reference. I got the datalog and reviewed it. First thing that needs to be done is to set the timing again, as it is still set to the L98 timing settings. Go into these three grids (I added a pic below for reference)...;

SA - Initial SA: Set your Intial timing to 12* BTDC in this location, but make sure your base timing by hand is also set to 12* BTDC on the balancer with the engine running and the EST bypass disconnected. They should both be set to 12* BTDC...

SA - Idle State SA: Set this from the stock setting of 20* to 24*...

SA - Main Table: I highlighted the area where to go into and switch them to match your new SA - Idle State of 24*, but make them say 24.96. Do it like this;

800-RPM (20kpa through 80kpa) change the values to 24.96
600-RPM (20kpa thorugh 75kpa) change the values to 23.96
400-RPM (20kpa through 70kpa) change the values to 23.96

Save bin, Flash the bin in, do another VE Learn, datalog again, and send it on over...

- Rob

 

Okay I'll put a timing light on it today and confirm the base timing is set correctly, then make al the changes in the bin and do a log, should have the log to you around 3:30pm Eastern time

 

So I set the timing on the distributor and did everything you said to the bin...idling much better , and no more surging, how ever under acceleration (getting onto the highway) it pops now, also do you want the data log to be from a cold start or already warm?

 

Shouldn't be too much timing, as above 1000-RPM it is all still an L98 main table. Already warm is fine, but make sure you datalog when it is popping. Did you do a VE Learn when it was popping, or is it still not Learning in the graph? How is the transition from Park to Drive? Send it on over as soon as you're ready...

 

Mike can you send me the bin too...

 

I did a learn and it made small changes nothing huge, and yes I did the VE learn while it was popping, the transition from park to drive is better, it dose a small serge initially but that's it, doesn't stall out any more, I'll do the log now and send everything over

 

The IAC needs to be tweaked a little bit more until just right...

The popping sounds like a lean spot, the bin and datalog will tell us where it is...

 

Sent it all to your email

 

Got it, looking at it now.

You are idling at 825-RPM in Park, and 700-RPM in Drive with the IAC at almost 0 steps, back off of the fast throttle idle screw while at the same time watching the IAC steps in the WUD, and when you see 30 - 40 steps and a steady idle, stop backing off of it and do another VE Learn for your idle...

The popping is your fuel. The area where you told me you heard popping, the moment you apply the throttle and enter Power Enrichment, your O2mv's drop to 0 and stay there for close to ten seconds until you let off. Watch the WUD again and observe your O2 meter on the far right when it happens at that 1:45 mark...

 

Hmm...I was low on fuel when i did that data log, actually that data log was on my way to the gas station lol, but I did try it after putting half a tank in and it was still popping, how can I correct the fuel problem? Different pump? Or can it be corrected in the BIN?

 

First thing you want to do is a fuel pressure test, plug a tester into the schrader valve, start the engine and confirm your fuel pressure at idle, at part throttle, and then confirm pressure will still hold well after engine is shutdown. If all is good with the pump, then you more than likely have a bad O2 sensor...

 

Highest RPM reached was around 2200-RPM, Spark Advance is decent right at 24 degrees, total timing normally should come in around 2800/3000-RPM, and you were right on target if you kept in it. BLM locked at 131, but O2 was reading only 4. I'm leaning towards a bad narrowband O2 sensor, especially if you seen absolutely no signs of a VE Learn at any time with all of the changes that you made, but then again if you were almost out of gas when you did the datalog. In any event, definitely check the fuel pump to make sure it is working properly, fill the tank with gas lol, and try it again...

 

Update for those reading along. Mike tested the fuel pump, and the pressure gauge is showing 30-psi at idle. That is way too low. Now, before assuming the pump is on its' way out, he will need to inspect the fuel pressure regulator for any rupture. I just learned that he swapped to a Holley Stealth Ram too, and is also running two 3/8's flexible rubber hoses from the fuel rails to the stock steel fuel lines in the engine bay. The brief 3/8 rubber line to the steel 5/16 on the return side shouldn't be a problem, however the HSR regulator might very well be ruptured, especially if it is used/old. We'll wait to see what is confirmed first with the regulator before going any further. As far as the HSR is concerned though, we'll upgrade the SA - Main Table from L98 to LT1 once he is ready...

 

I will be removing and taking the regulator apart tonight, and post pics of what I find. I don't think the regulator would be bad as it is basically new, only a few hundred miles on it, but I will confirm