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Solving engine stall at slow speed

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Old Feb 3, 2020 | 09:32 PM
  #1  
Dominic Sorresso's Avatar
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From: Bartlett, IL
Car: 92 ZR-1
Engine: LT-5
Transmission: ZF-6
Axle/Gears: SuperDana 44 4.10
Solving engine stall at slow speed

My LT-5 is ported and cammed. 450+rwhp. Idle ~. 925rpm, One particular annoyance is when making slow speed 90* turn, its possible the engine will stall out u less playing w accelerator. Related to that is when you are inching forward in traffic with on/off accel, possible to experience engine stall again when backing off accel. Played w timing for Too Low Idle, and IAC V mph and a few other things. Any other recommends?
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Old Feb 4, 2020 | 07:11 AM
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Transmission: TH400
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Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

All the fueling in that area correct? When it dips down low rpm and higher map before stall sometimes those areas can be too rich and kill motor

timing also is needed. I’d try bumping it up everywhere around idle maybe, lower rpms below idle and higher map areas where it would dip into before stall
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Old Feb 4, 2020 | 08:23 AM
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From: Bartlett, IL
Car: 92 ZR-1
Engine: LT-5
Transmission: ZF-6
Axle/Gears: SuperDana 44 4.10
Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
All the fueling in that area correct? When it dips down low rpm and higher map before stall sometimes those areas can be too rich and kill motor

timing also is needed. I’d try bumping it up everywhere around idle maybe, lower rpms below idle and higher map areas where it would dip into before stall
Could the too rich condition be coming from too much AE at small MAP changes, ie when initial takeoff?
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Old Feb 4, 2020 | 08:30 AM
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From: Chasing Electrons
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Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

It may be the stall saver (SS) logic. In SS the ECM opens the EST/BYPASS and reverts to base timing. Here is a thread that describes this logic for $8D and $6E. The '92 LT5 $D0 mask uses the same SS routine.

Note that this thread also describes how to disable it:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ver-sa-8d.html

RBob.
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Old Feb 4, 2020 | 09:23 AM
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From: Bartlett, IL
Car: 92 ZR-1
Engine: LT-5
Transmission: ZF-6
Axle/Gears: SuperDana 44 4.10
Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

RBob,

We've had this discussion before and I had set those params to 0 some time ago based on ur recommends. DFCO is also disabled. Just recently had motor rebuilt with basically new short block. Did a log yesterday so I will look at SA to see what happens during those times of "crawling" and feathering the clutch.
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Old Feb 4, 2020 | 11:14 AM
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Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

OK, good to have the SS covered. A new engine is going to be tight. IOW, there is going to be more running friction. After some miles are put on the engine it will loosen up. Can usually tell when it starts to rev more quickly.

RBob.
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Old Feb 4, 2020 | 11:34 AM
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From: Bartlett, IL
Car: 92 ZR-1
Engine: LT-5
Transmission: ZF-6
Axle/Gears: SuperDana 44 4.10
Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

Originally Posted by RBob
OK, good to have the SS covered. A new engine is going to be tight. IOW, there is going to be more running friction. After some miles are put on the engine it will loosen up. Can usually tell when it starts to rev more quickly.

RBob.
Good point RBob. Took a look at the log from yesterday and I did note that as Orr suggested that it goes rich as I make small change to TPS/MAP from takeoff. Then goes lean for a number of frames thereafter.
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Old Feb 4, 2020 | 01:08 PM
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Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

I had a going rich then lean at light throttle off idle problem. I finally figured out that to much AE was causing the rich and the resulting stumble and misfire was making the o2 sensor see a lean condition. Once I fixed the rich condition and the lean then corrected itself.
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Old Feb 4, 2020 | 01:33 PM
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From: Bartlett, IL
Car: 92 ZR-1
Engine: LT-5
Transmission: ZF-6
Axle/Gears: SuperDana 44 4.10
Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

I think ur right Larry. However, I took another look at the datalog and I believe attached is an example of what RBob was describing above with Stall Saver. U can also see the Rich/Lean thing happening.

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Old Feb 4, 2020 | 01:48 PM
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Car: 89 Iroc-z
Engine: 555 BBC Turbo
Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: MWC 9” 3.00
Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

Yup that will NOT help. Need to disable that.
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Old Feb 4, 2020 | 02:25 PM
  #11  
Dominic Sorresso's Avatar
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From: Bartlett, IL
Car: 92 ZR-1
Engine: LT-5
Transmission: ZF-6
Axle/Gears: SuperDana 44 4.10
Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
Yup that will NOT help. Need to disable that.
Thought I had. The params are set to 0.
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Old Feb 5, 2020 | 08:40 AM
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From: Chasing Electrons
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Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

Check the closed throttle SA table.

RBob.
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Old Feb 5, 2020 | 08:46 AM
  #13  
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From: Bartlett, IL
Car: 92 ZR-1
Engine: LT-5
Transmission: ZF-6
Axle/Gears: SuperDana 44 4.10
Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

Originally Posted by RBob
Check the closed throttle SA table.

RBob.
RBob,

There is a Closed Throttle constant which I have set at 20*. Also the flag is checked to allow Closed Throttle SA. Don’t see a table in the .xdf I have.
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Old Feb 5, 2020 | 10:00 AM
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From: Chasing Electrons
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Engine: check
Transmission: check
Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

I checked and the table I thought was closed throttle is closed secondary ports. The one thing I noticed in the above screen shot is that the low timing is somewhat relative to throttle opening being near 0%.

But something is going on, just not sure what.

RBob.
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Old Feb 5, 2020 | 10:41 AM
  #15  
Dominic Sorresso's Avatar
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From: Bartlett, IL
Car: 92 ZR-1
Engine: LT-5
Transmission: ZF-6
Axle/Gears: SuperDana 44 4.10
Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

Originally Posted by RBob
I checked and the table I thought was closed throttle is closed secondary ports. The one thing I noticed in the above screen shot is that the low timing is somewhat relative to throttle opening being near 0%.

But something is going on, just not sure what.

RBob.
That’s right RBob. That’s the reason I highlighted those areas because it looked like what u had described was happening.
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Old Feb 6, 2020 | 12:49 PM
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From: Bartlett, IL
Car: 92 ZR-1
Engine: LT-5
Transmission: ZF-6
Axle/Gears: SuperDana 44 4.10
Re: Solving engine stall at slow speed

Well, I have scanned the log closer after seeing a pattern emerging. My observations are:

1. An SA of 9.49 initiates at TPS% <= 1.17%
2. But only if MPH <= 15mph
3. Once RPM is <= 1000, timing appears to be restored back from the 9.49 default value.

So my IAC Max MPH for Idle Mode is set at 15mph,
That's 0x7CA in the $D0A .xdf
My IAC Max TPS% for Idle Mode is set at 1.17%. 0x7C7
C/L TPS% Threshold is also set for 1.17% 0x6B2
Finally, there's a SS recovery rate (assume blend rate) of .49%/sec. 0x48

Again, I have the SS params =0 as outlined by RBob. Initial(base) SA is set at 5.98* with Closed Throttle SA = 20.08*
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