I'm running 8D s_ajup v6. my all in timing of 32 degree is at 3200rpm. datalogs show spark at 20 degrees from a rolling 2500rpm @ 50kpa even though the table is set to around 35 degrees. When i give it WOT it slowly increases to 26 degrees over a period of about 3 seconds, until it shifts into 2nd gear then it jumps to where is supposed to be at 32 degrees at about 11:31-11:32 mark, I'm not getting any knock retard, I'm not sure what exactly is pulling timing here that it would stop pulling it once its in second gear.

 

Need to post a TunerPro .xdl log or an exported .csv file. Not enough data here.

 

it wouldn't allow me to upload the xdl file, so i exported it to csv, hope it works. thanks.

 

wouldn't allow the xdl file, so i exported it to csv, assuming it was too big to upload, so i put the xdl and csv into a rar file. the issue i'm having is happening begins at the 11:28 time mark. thanks

 

Isn't there a launch mode SA feature in this code? It pulls SA to prevent tire spin?

RBob.

 

Yes, I do have launch control activated, but as far as I'm aware the vehicle has to be staged at zero mph for it to activate, and I started my run from a 8mph roll or so. Also nothing in the log shows launch control was activated. I will temporarily disable launch control just to confirm, but I'm pretty sure its something else

 

It doesn't appear LC is activated. Code won't allow if MPH >0.

My guess is that you your ICM or coil is faulty, or possibly a loose coil/ICM connection somewhere. Two things point to this:

1. Just before WOT at samples 4555-4626, SA-TDC all of a sudden goes to 20.04 degrees with RPM 1200-1900 and MAP 50-60 kPa. This is so far from the 30+ degrees in the spark table posted in post #1 that it makes no sense. Look also at samples 4164-4398 for the same thing.
2. During WOT at 100% TPS, reported RPM goes from 5575 at sample 4678, and then 2 samples later it's 4275. No way RPM is actually dropping this far that fast. If it were, your forehead would be on the steering wheel..

The ECM uses Distributor Reference Pulses to determine engine RPM so a drop in reported RPM at 100% TPS means DRPs are not proper, so something electrical likely causing it.

There are some other anomalies in the log probably unrelated to your problem. Here's one, and Not trying to vector off to another issue, but something very strange given what S_AUJP v6 is designed to report. Is your VSS connected properly or could it have loose connections? Log shows in 4th gear while idling in P/N through sample 1589. Then when WOT is initiated at sample 4631, 4th gear is indicated at 13 MPH. Can't be. NV Ratio of 150+ confirms not 4th.
Notice also the transient data at samples 4403-4432 and in sample 5757.

See highlighted areas in the attached xlsx file.

If you find the ICM and coil to be OK, it you don't mind,would ask that you zip up your BIN and post it so can take a look at it for settings, etc.

HTH, Elky.

 

84elky, i think you may be on to something. ever since i installed my autometer gauges my speedometer has acted strange spiking randomly as shown in these videos i took trying to solve the problem back in 2008:
I basically got used to it and assumed it was a problem with the gauge itself, I put an additional ground from the VSS straight to ground to see if that would help, but it didn't change anything.

I've also noticed when playing with launch control i could never get it to stage, i had planned on looking into that further at a later date, but starting to have a feeling it might resolve itself with this new found evidence. I had recently replaced the ICM wtih a delco unit thinking it might be the reason i was having idling issues, but that didn't work, I later fixed the idling issues through tuning. As for the ignition coil, I don't think it will fail the test, but i will test it anyway.

I have attached my bin as requested

 

Several things:

1. No question your ICM is breaking down at high RPMs. I should have noticed it. See the DRPs increase below in "Reference Period" (remember DRPs produce RPM and are inverse to RPM). This is clearly a distributor/coil/ICM issue. I believe this or another electrical issue is also the random cause of the long string of 20.04 SA-TDC values previously noted.
   
   Take a look at the attached document on ICMs, etc. They are not all created equally. Credit RBob with the important research on using a Delco ICM identified with "369". There are also other aftermarkets that are high performance.
2. I don't see anything in the BIN that would cause issues, but some questions/observations (see image):
   
   • Is TCC unlock by RPM really desired? Factory is MPH for a variety of reasons.
   • Is the VSS magnetic as indicated?
   • Do you really want the TCC unlocked if in DFCO?
   • Should uncheck reading WB Sensor #2 because you do not appear to be using Sensor #1 or getting Raw data for #2
3. It would be preferred to update your ALDL Reporting Scalars to provide proper info:
   
   
4. Would appreciate your elaborating on not being able to stage Launch Control. The only way that can occur is is TPS% is not =0 or MPH is not =0. The log is showing both at zero, but the transient issue you're seeing on the speedometer could be signals interrupting a zero MPH reading for a few ms causing LC to not indicate staged. Also, no need to uncheck LC. It can't be invoked unless the TPS/RPM boundaries are exceeded. But do note that you are not reporting anything regarding LC, DFCO, PE, etc. because you are not reporting the bits in 0x00FF (see Reporting Scalar 51 above).

After making the above changes and resolving the ICM & VSS issues, perhaps another log would be appropriate,

Elky

 

Thanks for the detailed information, very helpful.

1.
I am running the D1943A ICM but unsure if it is stamped with 369, the document says that the D1943A is the superseded part number for the 048 as well, so i assume I am good on that part. It was installed with arctic silver cpu thermal paste. I've been running the MSD blaster coil for about 15 years, but have read stories of them not being so good. distributor is an MSD billet unit.

2.

• I was completely unaware that TCC unlock was flagged for rpm and not mph, not even sure how it got like that, this will be changed to mph
• VSS is factory style so i left it flagged because that is what the oem bin had
• Wasn't sure about TCC being unlocked on DFCO so I can change that if its more desirable not being locked
• I'm not using any internal WB readings, so i can uncheck that, I assumed it wouldn't hurt anything the way it is. When I run my wide band, i hook the auxiliary output from the controller directly to the terminal block on the autoprom

3.
You lost me at updating ALDL reporting scalars, I tried finding what you were referring to in tunerpro RT, but I have no idea where that is.

4.
As for launch control not being able to stage, i was going off live data while trying to stage it, and it would never flag as staged even when i dropped the staged rpm to 1200 to see if I could get it to work, but you are saying i'm not even reporting certain things, I was not aware of that fact, i assumed everything was reporting as it should by using s_aujp v6 adx. So i guess i could use some help on getting them to report this info

I will look into the ICM/coil/distributor being a problem, but as for the VSS I have no idea how to diagnose that, it didn't have the spiking problem when i had the factory gauges in there, and the spikes aren't recorded on the data logs, so i assumed it was a problem with how the gauge was interpreting the signal, I do notice that the closer i get to 80mph which is the halfway point the lower the speed will spike to, at 80+ mph it doesn't spike at all.

 

Responding to your numbered items:
1.
You have the correct ICM available from GM/Delco. But the 369 can still break down above 5K as yours is doing. A TPI engine was factory designed to peak around 4800-5000. With the RPMs you're turning, I'd look for an aftermarket performance/racing ICM designed for higher RPMs.

2.
WB. No need to use the autoprom channels unless you want to. See below extracted from the S_AUJP readme doc. You can eliminate autoprom connections and also have AFR and raw counts reported in your log:
-Connect WB sensor to ECM Pin F14
-Set WB Flags:
----WB OPT 2 (0x99B), b0 = 1=Get Sensor #1 Raw Counts
----WB OPT 2 (0x99B), b7 = Sensor #1 Pin (0=F14[Default]; 1=A3)
-Change XDF ALDL Reporting Scalar Number 37 to 01C5
-In the ADX Value below, enter the AFR Conversion Equation for the controller used (see Appendix B-WBo2 AFR Conversion Equations)
----WBo2 AFR Sensor #1

3.
The ALDL Reporting Scalars are the first 63 Scalars listed in the v6 S_AUJP XDF. The values entered there define the variable to be reported by the ADX.
The Scalars are 1-based, but the related ADX packet offsets are 0-based. For example with the WB Scalar #37 above, the ADX Value "Wbo2 AFR Sensor #1" has packet offset 36. The "packet offset" refers to the reported item's position in the code's Mode 1 Diagnostic Data Stream (DDS).

4.
Once you update the Reporting scalars as in post #9, you'll see much more information in your logs (LC, DFCO, PE, etc.). Also, if you review the v6 "readme" you'll note there are other items that can be optionally reported such as "Final PW" ,etc.). Download latest revision v6-4 here:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...-released.html


VSS issue
Have you talked to Autometer? Electric gauges cannot randomly change without electrical stimulus. Got this off Autometer website:
My electric speedometer registers speed when sitting still or with engine revs

If the speedometer registers speed with the engine running while the car is sitting still, you will first need to make sure that you have successfully completed the calibration procedure. If not, do so and that may solve the problem.

If calibration has been completed, check or run a new ground to the speedometer.

A faulty diode in the alternator can actually cause this symptom. If you rev the engine and the speedometer responds, then disconnect all wiring from the alternator. If the problem goes away, then replace your alternator or have it rebuilt. With only one diode bad in the alternator, you would not necessarily notice a charging system problem yet other than the crazy acting speedometer.
[My comment=Quick diode test: Engine running at operating temp, DVM(+) on battery(+), DVM(-) on battery(-). Set DVM to 2v AC. Should not see any AC voltage with good diodes. Some say minimal ACv OK. Need to Goggle for true test with Alt totally disconnected from battery/ignition. Bad diode(s) will also cause parasitic battery drain.]

Routing of the signal wire past a high amperage power source or an ignition component may also cause this symptom. Re-route your wiring away from any of these sources.

If not the above, then replace VSS or make sure it's compatible with autometer speedo.

HTH, Elky

PS ---
If you download new v6-4 files, you can use the XDF without worry,; but can't blindly use the ADX. Can use it directly if you made no changes to that initially downloaded. Will have to update it if any changes.

 

1. Ok, finally got some time to work on this problem. I have check ICM and ignition coil, everything checks out good. I clean all contacts and re-seated ICM. It appears I am no longer getting getting increased DRP with higher rpm. I could not find any aftermarket racing ICM, only thing I came across is the accel unit and I'm pretty sure its just a re-labeled D1943A, but I think my current ICM is fine according to my new logs.

2. I read about wiring the wideband into the ecm directly and bypassing the autoprom channels, but decided to not go that route, I'm fine with using the channels for now since i rarely use the wideband.

3. Still unsure how to update reporting scalars, but i did change from the v6-2a to v6-4a, hope that helps with logs.

4. As for the autometer speedometer issue, I have spoken to autometer about this, with not much help, they must have updated their faq's since I initially had this problem, because it did not say anything about a faulty alternator diode potentially causing this issue, I will look into this further at a later time, as I don't see it causing my current problems, since the correct speed without spiking is being reported in my logs.

5. So my initial problem still exists, spark advance is still hanging up until 2nd gear. I've attached my new log and wide open throttle begins at sample #1840 with spark advance at 20.04 slowly increasing to 26.02 at sample #1862 when the 1-2 shift happens, then spark advance jumps from 26.02 to 31.99. I should have the full 32 degrees timing at 3200 rpm and up.

 

The ALDL Reporting Scalars are the first 63 Scalars in the XDF (see below). Merely enter in the appropriate Scalar the addresses in the Table in Item 3. of Post #9 here.



The problem is not the 1-2 shift. It's the fact that before WOT, there is a long string of constant spark 14.06 REF - 20.04 TDC (samples 1799-1849). This also occurs in samples 1214-1387. This was also previously indicted in Post #9 Item 1. So the problem continues. Can't have constant spark at varying MAP and RPM. See also sample 1900 where garbage is reported for virtually all data. This should never occur! Everything points to a faulty electrical connection or component somewhere. Have no idea what it could be but it appears to be ignition/coil related.

Again, although likely not related to the spark issue, need to check VSS/Transmission wiring as indicated in Item #2. Post #7. The ECM receives electrical signals from them. That data is reported via all v6 ADXs and it clearly indicates incorrect connections. Can't be in 4th and P/N at the same time. Also, look at samples 149-159 where in and out of 4th for no reason. That's what the ECM is seeing or it would not be reported as such. Ditto sample 1901 and following.

Wish I could be of more help.

Elky

 

Ok, I think i figured out what you were meant to update the reporting scalars, is this what i needed to change?


As for the long string of spark at 20.04 TDC, I think there was a little confusion on why its like that, I wasn't 100% throttle from a dead stop. All of my logs I posted was from about a 10 MPH roll for a few seconds with about 5% throttle before I gave it 100% throttle, I think this is why were seeing the long string of 20.04 TDC, though it does not exactly match up with what i have on my spark table. As for sample 1900 I did see it report the invalid data, but thought it was just a fluke or because i currently have my ecm just laying on my floorboard causing a connection issue with the prom, I will watch for invalid data in all my future logs.

I completely missed the fact that its constantly reporting that I'm in 4th gear. I pulled the ecm connector and tested pin D14 for 4th gear input and it has a constant ground on it even with the engine off, so i must have a short to ground or what i think might be more likely is when i had dana at probuilt do the transmission, he may have installed a hydraulic lockup which i believe includes forcing the 4th gear switch closed. I did tell him to not install a hydraulic lockup since i have the ecm for it, but maybe he forgot. If the ecm is constantly seeing a 4th gear input, I can see this causing all kinds of problems. I will check for a ground output from the transmission connector from the 4th gear switch, if I find it grounded at the connector, I will put the pan and see whats going on. I would have checked it already, but weather had already got up to 108 degrees today.

Elky you've given more help than I expected and I really appreciate it. I've been on the verge of giving up on my current setup for an LS swap, but your help has push me to fix these issues.

 

Yes. You might also look at the README and follow the instructions to report Final PW. Similar to the above but you'll have to add a Value to your ADX to report it. Very valuable for determining true injector % duty cycle.

No confusion. It is not possible for spark to remain constant as shown in your logs. The ECM code is processing and changing things at up to 160 times a second! You have an issue somewhere that needs to be corrected. If not, you'll never have reliable data.

This should never occur. It indicates a bad connection somewhere which can affect all manner of data reporting (like spark maybe ???) I use an autoprom with a cable to a zif connector. Not recommended by Moates, but it works if connection is solid. Any slight misalignment of the cable pins with the ECM and data are misreported. Been there done that. Just sayin . . . .

 

No mean to hack. So if there is some answer already in a thread please let me know.
I am in the middle of tuning SA and came across this thread. 84Elky I read RBob's document. That was all new to me. So if I have the ICM D1943A, from 3200 rpm to 5000 rpm I should add 2* to the reported SA-TDC and from 5000 rpm and over I should add 6* to the reported SA-TDC. That is quite the difference over 5000 rpm!!!! I have no way to verify at WOT unless on a chassis dyno with a timing light. That would explain why OEM tune had a dip in the SA curve between 3200-4800. That would mean that right now over 5000 rpm I have 38* total SA?
Thanks

 

As I understand it, the ICM will do what it is going to do to add or subtract the SA. No user action required unless what the ICM is doing is violating the SA the user desires/requires at RPM x.

 

Thanks!
I will do a test comparing the commanded total SA (not reference SA) showed on Tunerpro RT when monitoring and what is seen with a timing light. I will lock SA tables at 30* across the board, zero out PE SA and CT adjustment. SA latency table will be set at OEM.
Just a matter of capturing data with timing light across rpm range.
Just waiting for a new Cat converter, so that might take a few weeks.

 

I hooked up a temporary exhaust so I was able to run the test today. See results:

POST #45
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ml#post6381676

Cheers