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Name the Bin whatever you want with the number 1 next to it, and save it in that folder you just created. You will notice that the top of Tuner Pro now has your new Bin's name, and the 3005 Bin is gone. We do this because we cannot make changes to the base bins, we have to save and rename them first, then make the changes we need.....
I have the cable. I really appreciate you walking me through this. Would it be possible to continue this maybe tomorrow? Is this a good stopping point?
I have a question about the base timing we set at 6 degrees. It was previously set at 20. Should there be any consideration for the CAM in the engine. See below for settings
Just so we're on the same page, your Base is the timing you set by hand with the EST Bypass disconnected. Your Initial is your spark reference in the Bin that tells the EBL your Base Timing. Your Idle State is the actual timing you're at when idling. Remember when you reconnected the EST and the SA jumped to 34*? It's the same difference, as now 6* is the Initial Timing with EST Bypass disconnected, and 20* is the timing with EST Bypass Connected. The 6* is just a spark reference...
Your starter Bin is good to get the engine up and running. Camshaft sizes make absolutely no difference, neither do mods, trust me on this. Now, your idle state is set to 20*, which is okay. You'll eventually want it closer to 23*, but we'll worry about that later, just want to get the engine fired with some data to review....
Next, open the WUD, connect the USB to the EBL-P4 with laptop, place the key in the on position (do not start the engine), and wait for the communication from the EBL-P4 to the laptop to commence. You will see the WUD light up with data. Confirm when you get to that point, however note, you might have to test difference Communication Ports to get it to communicate...
Select Comm Port 1 to start, give it a few seconds to register, then move on to 2, then 3 etc. Give it at least five seconds to register for each Comm Port before you move onto the next one. When you find the right one, it will light up...
Your timing was way off to begin with at 20* Initial and 34* Idle State, you were more than likely running way too rich and pinging like crazy. This Bin will make it run the way it needs to. Flash it in, and wait for it to say Successful in Green...
Let the engine idle for awhile until you reach over 120* F, and get it to operating temp. Let the datalog continue recording the data. After you reach 185*F or so, you can select;
It will save automatically in the folder you preselected the moment you select Close Datalog. If you accidentally saved it in Downloads, just cut and paste it from Downloads into your EBL folder...
Okay, you are still in Open Loop at 180* F when it is set for 120* F. You mentioned headers, you more than likely need to install a heated narrowband sensor because the stock O2 sensor is not getting hot enough with the headers. This is the reason why you are rich. I can give you an Open Loop tune, or we can wait for the heated narrowband and give you a Closed Loop tune (preferred)...
Okay, you are still in Open Loop at 180* F when it is set for 120* F. You mentioned headers, you more than likely need to install a heated narrowband sensor because the stock O2 sensor is not getting hot enough with the headers. This is the reason why you are rich. I can give you an Open Loop tune, or we can wait for the heated narrowband and give you a Closed Loop tune (preferred)...
- Rob
just to confirm you are saying I need to install an additional sensor? What is difference between open and close loop tune?
Closed Loop is using feedback from the O2 sensor to evaluate your air/fuel ratio. Open Loop is using preconfigured values that are programmed ahead of time, and the only way to know the AFR in Open Loop is by using a wideband O2 sensor. Your current O2 sensor is of the one wire stock type, which relies on heat from the exhaust to get hot enough to function. You are running Long Tube Headers, I can guarantee you that is why the O2 sensor is not getting hot enough to enter into Closed Loop...
Closed Loop is using feedback from the O2 sensor to evaluate your air/fuel ratio. Open Loop is using preconfigured values that are programmed ahead of time, and the only way to know the AFR in Open Loop is by using a wideband O2 sensor. Your current O2 sensor is of the one wire stock type, which relies on heat from the exhaust to get hot enough to function. You are running Long Tube Headers, I can guarantee you that is why the O2 sensor is not getting hot enough to enter into Closed Loop...
- Rob
so you are saying I will get a better tune by replacing the sensor to allow it to configure the proper air/fuel ratio based on engine temps correct? Can you recommend a sensor that will work for my application? Are they difficult to install?
Meh, thirdgen website was momentarily down for some reason. Anyway, the pic you sent me in Gmail looks as if you already have a heated narrowband, just need to confirm that it is in fact a 3 wire O2 sensor. If it is, check the routing, as one wire will go to the EBL input, one wire is a ground, and another goes to a switched 12 volt source. If you don't have a three wire already installed, they have heated narrowband kits on Amazon and Ebay to use...
- Rob
Edit: You have a four wire heated narrowband sensor, so two wires are being used to heat it up. You need to trace those wires and make sure they are connected properly and check for looseness, ground corrosion, etc. If the wires check out, then being that rich all this time might have ruined the O2 sensor. Check and trace the wires carefully...
- Rob
Last edited by Street Lethal; Jul 3, 2021 at 11:39 AM.
4 wire O2 sensor wiring traced and checked, switched fuses are good, and ground is good, no corrosion. No tears in the wiring. Open Loop is still constant, does snot enter into Closed Loop. However, the O2 sensor is not reading 450mv, it is in fact reading 900mv during Open Loop, so it is working as a one wire narrowband, it is just not getting hot enough to enable Closed Loop due to the Long tube headers. O2 sensor was cleaned, as it had soot all over it, but it made no difference. Heating element is not working, needs a new 4 wire O2 sensor...
Bosch p/n 15703 confirmed, Click Here. Third datalog should show Closed Loop enable at 120* F once the O2 sensor has been replaced. We'll pick it up from there once we confirm that...
Going to close this one out for those who are following along and might come across similar issues. Brian just needed help getting Tuner Pro as well as the Dynamic EFI up and running, which we did in the earlier posts. However, when it came time to datalog, I noticed as issue of him being stuck in Open Loop. Turns out he was still running the previous owner's Bin, which was specifically an Open Loop Bin. This was due to the Bank he was running. Long story short, we finally got him into Closed Loop once the new Bin was switched over, however noticed another problem, the O2 sensor was pegged Rich no matter how much fuel was being pulled from the VE. So, after inspecting the wiring, making a few changes here and there thinking the wiring was faulty, as well as cleaning the current O2 sensor, then finally replacing it with the very same p/n unit, it was still being pegged Rich. This was strange with a replacement O2 sensor having the same symptoms, but alas, getting a defected O2 sensor from a parts store has been known to happen from time to time. But as far as I was concerned, this now made sense as to why he was running an Open Loop tune, the assumption here is the same thing was happening to the previous owner...
Recap;
* Engine came with a 20* Base/Initial and 34* Idle State timing setting, which is way too much. If the idle state was 34*, could only imagine what his part throttle and wide open throttle were...
* Also found out through the current owner that the previous owner was running 21.5# Volkswagon Injectors, but lowered fuel pressure down to 30-psi. Not quite sure why he would do that, as the modded engine was already down on the duty cycle range with just having 21.5# rated at 40-psi as it was, now the engine was reduced to an even lower range of 18.5# fuel flow....
* After a few attempts of Leaning the mixture to the point of glowing headers yet still showing a 108 BLM, it was now clear that there is either a wiring issue, or the O2 sensors are just bad. Again, very strange that the new replacement would do the same thing, but it has happened.
Wanted to give the current owner a new Open Loop tune based on a more feasible....;
* 6* BTDC Base/Initial and 23* idle State...
* Upped fuel pressure to 43-psi w/out vacuum reference, which made his current 18.5# @ 30--psi now flow 22.5# @ 43-psi, which again the Volkswagon Injectors were flowed and sold originally as 21.5# @ 40-psi). Pressure gauge is a tad shaky, but okay nonetheless. But then again, might be the reason why the previous owner lowered the fuel pressure down to 30-psi...
* Adjusted AE, PE and LM, smoothed VE's, as well as gave him a much better SA Main Table...
Current owner is happy with the Open Loop tune, and we had to do this based on his feedback because the narrowbands are not working, and he had no wideband, so I am using kPa as a vacuum reading, as well as his feedback. Engine idles very good, off idle as per Brian is hard and crisp, pulls hard with plenty of power. So this is just about done and wrapped. Will send Dynamic EFI a copy of the final Bin as a Base Bin for those who are running similar setups and would like a Base to start with. Best of luck with the Jeep Brian, and enjoy...
