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I am brand new to tuning and would like to get some advice on where to start. I have a Chevy 350 (mid 90s era) custom built engine that powers a 1981 Jeep CJ5. It has a Holley Throttle Body and Mercruiser intake with multiport fuel injection, Headman long tube headers, and a Lunati Cam. I have EBL P4 flash added to the stock AC Delco ECM which will allow me to collect data and reflash the ECM with new settings.
The engine runs good as far as I can tell but I believe it is running a little rich as I can smell gas especially when the engine is not warmed up. The fuel economy is a bit poor as well. Is it possible to connect a laptop and log the sensor outputs to see if any adjustments need to be made? I also understand I will need to use a BIN editor like TunerprPro to edit the tuning settings and allow changes using the What's Up program in EBL Flash.
Any advice on where to start would be greatly appreciated.
Is it possible to connect a laptop and log the sensor outputs to see if any adjustments need to be made? I also understand I will need to use a BIN editor like TunerprPro to edit the tuning settings and allow changes using the What's Up program in EBL Flash.
Any advice on where to start would be greatly appreciated.
Yes, using a Windows based laptop you can data log, observe the data live, do VE Learns, check the raw sensor values, and even do some analysis on data logs. See our web site for the Intro to Tuning pages along with the What's Up Display page. Tons of information.
As for TunerPro, grab the free (!) version. That is all that is required to edit the BIN.
Yes, using a Windows based laptop you can data log, observe the data live, do VE Learns, check the raw sensor values, and even do some analysis on data logs. See our web site for the Intro to Tuning pages along with the What's Up Display page. Tons of information.
As for TunerPro, grab the free (!) version. That is all that is required to edit the BIN.
RBob.
Thanks for the reply. I have read the intro to tuning on your web site. Just looking for advice on the best place to start. I would like to get baseline readings and maybe share here on the site to get feedback from experienced tuners. Would I start with Tuner Pro or the What's Up program? I do not want to edit any settings until I understand how it is currently set up. Should I start with Data Logging? The engine runs well and has good power but I would like to see if it is running rich and if I can improve the fuel economy. I can smell gas especially before the engine is warmed up.
I do not want to edit any settings until I understand how it is currently set up.
You're going to have to edit a few settings before getting started. The way it is setup is based on what you initially tell it. Camshafts and headers are no big deal, but engine and injector size is very important, as is your engine's current base timing. These are the areas that the EBL P4 system needs to know well in advance before you even turn the key to start the engine. If the proper information was already entered and Flashed into the ECM, then as RBob has indicated, set the system for a datalog using the WUD, let the engine start, idle, and then go for a ride all while recording, then come back and close the datalog.... then review it. The information it gives you will tell you what you need to know to get it running properly, whether for everyday driving, or all out performance.
You're going to have to edit a few settings before getting started. The way it is setup is based on what you initially tell it. Camshafts and headers are no big deal, but engine and injector size is very important, as is your engine's current base timing. These are the areas that the EBL P4 system needs to know well in advance before you even turn the key to start the engine. If the proper information was already entered and Flashed into the ECM, then as RBob has indicated, set the system for a datalog using the WUD, let the engine start, idle, and then go for a ride all while recording, then come back and close the datalog.... then review it. The information it gives you will tell you what you need to know to get it running properly, whether for everyday driving, or all out performance.
- Rob
So if I understand correctly I need to input specific mechanical information about my engine and components before logging information? I am confident I can input engine and injector size but how do I determine current base timing?
So if I understand correctly I need to input specific mechanical information about my engine and components before logging information? I am confident I can input engine and injector size but how do I determine current base timing?
You mentioned the engine being of a mid 90's era, and that it was custom built and still using the stock ECM (assuming you're running an e-trans, yes?). If the stock ECM was never reprogrammed, just provide where the engine came from, and which ECM it is using, as it is more than likely running the stock spark parameters. You can also just check your base timing using a timing light with the EST wire disconnected. Once you have those basics of engine size, injector size, and base timing entered into the EBL via Flashed Bin, then it knows what it is working with. The rest is cake.
You mentioned the engine being of a mid 90's era, and that it was custom built and still using the stock ECM (assuming you're running an e-trans, yes?). If the stock ECM was never reprogrammed, just provide where the engine came from, and which ECM it is using, as it is more than likely running the stock spark parameters. You can also just check your base timing using a timing light with the EST wire disconnected. Once you have those basics of engine size, injector size, and base timing entered into the EBL via Flashed Bin, then it knows what it is working with. The rest is cake.
- Rob
not sure if the stock ECM was reprogrammed. Is there a way to pull the data using What’s Up to see? I do know it has the EBL P4 Flash ECM installed. Can you clarify what is e-trans? Just trying to determine if I need to start from scratch or just edit the settings done by the previous owner.
If you're running the stock ECM from a 90's engine in conjunction with the EBL-P4, then you must be running the electronic transmission that came with that particular engine, correct? The Base Timing for the engine is used as a reference. I could tell you what the EBL is set for with your current tune, but only you will know the actual Base Timing if you check with a timing light, and they have to match. At this point, since you don't know if the stock ECM was reprogrammed or not, then I would definitely recommend checking your Base Timing with a timing light, especially since you confirmed an aftermarket camshaft, so someone has been in there and we can no longer go by or trust what the factory timing would be. Grab a timing light, start the engine, wait for it to heat up, disconnect the EST wire, and get your reading..
If you're running the stock ECM from a 90's engine in conjunction with the EBL-P4, then you must be running the electronic transmission that came with that particular engine, correct? The Base Timing for the engine is used as a reference. I could tell you what the EBL is set for with your current tune, but only you will know the actual Base Timing if you check with a timing light, and they have to match. At this point, since you don't know if the stock ECM was reprogrammed or not, then I would definitely recommend checking your Base Timing with a timing light, especially since you confirmed an aftermarket camshaft, so someone has been in there and we can no longer go by or trust what the factory timing would be. Grab a timing light, start the engine, wait for it to heat up, disconnect the EST wire, and get your reading..
- Rob
i took a photo of my ECM. See below. Does this help? Also I snapped a photo of the wires going into the heater core. Is this the EST wire?
No, I meant that I would need to read the Bin you're running to see your current Initial SA setting. I would highly recommend bringing the truck to your local mechanic, or even an experienced Auto Zone rep, and ask someone to check your Base Timing for you using a timing light. It literally takes minutes, if not seconds to do. Have you downloaded Tuner Pro V5 yet...?
No, I meant that I would need to read the Bin you're running to see your current Initial SA setting. I would highly recommend bringing the truck to your local mechanic, or even an experienced Auto Zone rep, and ask someone to check your Base Timing for you using a timing light. It literally takes minutes, if not seconds to do. Have you downloaded Tuner Pro V5 yet...?
- Rob
I have a timing light and can check it. I was not sure about the EST wire. I have a CD with Tuner Pro but I believe it is an older version.
That's a pretty advanced Base Timing setting, Did you advance the distributor in the past to try to give the engine a little more power at any point in time? Because 20* Base is not factory. Now I am questioning the EST wire itself, though it is the correct color coded wire for the early 80's Jeep EST Bypass. Did you happen to check the timing after you reconnected the EST by any chance?
That's a pretty advanced Base Timing setting, Did you advance the distributor in the past to try to give the engine a little more power at any point in time? Because 20* Base is not factory. Now I am questioning the EST wire itself, though it is the correct color coded wire for the early 80's Jeep EST Bypass. Did you happen to check the timing after you reconnected the EST by any chance?
- Rob
I agree 20 degrees sounds high. The EST wire was disconnected. I just acquired this vehicle and do not know how the previous owner set it.
I can check it after reconnecting the EST if that will help with tuning. Would that be helpful? Could too much base timing advance lead to a rich running condition?
Would I need to adjust the base timing by rotating the distributor or retuning the ECM?
Well the first thing needed to do is in fact confirm that that was in fact the EST Bypass wire (almost positive that it is). You would have known right away after reconnecting the EST and seen the timing advance even further than 20*. If it remained at 20* after reconnecting the wire, then it might not have been the EST Bypass wire. But any rate, first thing to do, if in fact you are at a 20* Base Timing setting, is to loosen the distributor, and slowly turn it clockwise to retard the timing down to, say, 6* BTDC with the EST Bypass wire disconnected again. Tighten the distributor, and make sure the timing didn't deviate from 6* while tightening the distributor down by checking the timing one last time before reconnecting the EST Bypass wire. Then when you confirmed a solid 6*, it is here where you will open Tuner Pro V5, select your XDF from the Dynamic EFI folder, then open Bin number 3005 (L98 Bin). It will be preset for 6* BTDC Initial Timing as well as a 350 cubic inch engine. You will also want to confirm your injector size, I'm assuming 24#'s for a mid 90's 350. If so, then enter your injector size. I will tell you exactly how to do that once you confirm the Base Timing is set properly to 6* BTDC and that that was in fact the EST Bypass wire, first and foremost...
Well the first thing needed to do is in fact confirm that that was in fact the EST Bypass wire (almost positive that it is). You would have known right away after reconnecting the EST and seen the timing advance even further than 20*. If it remained at 20* after reconnecting the wire, then it might not have been the EST Bypass wire. But any rate, first thing to do, if in fact you are at a 20* Base Timing setting, is to loosen the distributor, and slowly turn it clockwise to retard the timing down to, say, 6* BTDC with the EST Bypass wire disconnected again. Tighten the distributor, and make sure the timing didn't deviate from 6* while tightening the distributor down by checking the timing one last time before reconnecting the EST Bypass wire. Then when you confirmed a solid 6*, it is here where you will open Tuner Pro V5, select your XDF from the Dynamic EFI folder, then open Bin number 3005 (L98 Bin). It will be preset for 6* BTDC Initial Timing as well as a 350 cubic inch engine. You will also want to confirm your injector size, I'm assuming 24#'s for a mid 90's 350. If so, then enter your injector size. I will tell you exactly how to do that once you confirm the Base Timing is set properly to 6* BTDC and that that was in fact the EST Bypass wire, first and foremost...
- Rob
just rechecked with EST wire connected and it was at 34 degrees.
Good, now, open Tuner Pro V5, and click on XDF in the upper left hand corner and select "Select XDF". In the pop up box that comes immediately after, search for your Dynamic EFI folder and select the advanced XDF for the EBL P4.
Let me know when you get there, and when it's loaded into Tuner Pro...
- Rob
Last edited by Street Lethal; Jul 2, 2021 at 10:00 PM.
Once the Advanced XDF has been loaded into Tuner Pro, then click on File in the upper left hand corner, and select "Open Bin". Another pop up box will follow, search again for your Dynamic EFI folder, and select on Calibrations, followed by the 3005 Bin. So when you're done selecting your XDF and 3005 Bin, your Tuner Pro screen should look like this (note the top of the screen, next to where it says Tuner Pro RT)......
Good, now, open Tuner Pro V5, and click on XDF in the upper left hand corner and select "Select XDF". In the pop up box that comes immediately after, search for your Dynamic EFI folder and select the advanced XDF for the EBL P4.
Let me know when you get there, and when it's loaded into Tuner Pro...
- Rob
I’m in Tuner Pro clicked on XDF. the only folders are bin definitions, bins, and Layouts.
Manage your advanced security settings via control panel, see if that helps. Also, when downloading, don't toggle away or off of the screen, wait there until it is completed...
- Rob
Edit: Just seen your message above, which browser are you using? Did you try installing using compatibility mode to see if it works...?
A download failed is usually a malware issue (not that you have any), which can usually be fixed through the anti-virus settings, as well as adjusting the windows manager restrictions...
Last edited by Street Lethal; Jul 2, 2021 at 10:50 PM.
Manage your advanced security settings via control panel, see if that helps. Also, when downloading, don't toggle away or off of the screen, wait there until it is completed...
- Rob
Edit: Just seen your message above, which browser are you using? Did you try installing using compatibility mode to see if it works...?
A download failed is usually a malware issue (not that you have any), which can usually be fixed through the anti-virus settings, as well as adjusting the windows manager restrictions...
I turned off security and update is still failing. Should I reinstall the What’s Up P4 program?
What do you have downloaded onto your laptop right now that is EBL-P4, just the WUD only? Try clearing cookies (all time), then download the files again. If still not working, which browser are you using?
If Firefox; Tools, Options, Security and Unclick 'Block dangerous and deceptive content' momentarily...
If Google Chrome; Settings, Security, Safe Browsing, and click on Standard Protection, or No Protection momentarily...
- Rob
Edit: Click on CTRL + J and keep resuming the download until it takes, as it might be a bandwidth issue as well...
Last edited by Street Lethal; Jul 2, 2021 at 11:09 PM.
What do you have downloaded onto your laptop right now that is EBL-P4, just the WUD only? Try clearing cookies (all time), then download the files again. If still not working, which browser are you using?
If Firefox; Tools, Options, Security and Unclick 'Block dangerous and deceptive content' momentarily...
If Google Chrome; Settings, Security, Safe Browsing, and click on Standard Protection, or No Protection momentarily...
- Rob
I have EBL what’s up P4 downloaded. I am running Chrome and I turned off security. Update is still failing.
I know it is tedious, but if you click CTRL + J and resume the download repeatedly it will sometimes take because most of the download is already there. If it's not a security issue, maybe a bandwidth issue, or even a speed of your Wifi issue...
I know it is tedious, but if you click CTRL + J and resume the download repeatedly it will sometimes take because most of the download is already there. If it's not a security issue, maybe a bandwidth issue, or even a speed of your Wifi issue...
- Rob
thank you for walking me through this. Just making sure I am doing this correctly.
I downloaded Tuner Pro V5. I downloaded EBL P4 Flash from my CD.
I am trying to install update for the EBL P4
when I click on the update link I should select download the latest update program and .msi install file
a zipped folder installs in my downloads folder.
I double click EBL P4 update. Extract All then double click on EBL P4 update
a window pops up with a button Proceed with Update
Don't worry about the update then just yet, as I did not know you had the CD this whole time lol. Give a screenshot of the files that were downloaded onto your laptop from the CD...
Don't worry about the update then just yet, as I did not know you had the CD this whole time lol. Give a screenshot of the files that were downloaded onto your laptop from the CD...
