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I have all the gear to do this but it's been a long time. Where do you recommend I start after mods? Is there a particular .BIN I should be using? The car is a:
According to Lingenfelter a tune is required. I got it going on what I did before with the 24 pound injectors. I've only had it idling as It won't be coming out of the garage for another couple months. Just looking for a starting point. If memory serves me correct, I think I'm running an AUJL or AUJP Bin on it now.
From @RBob
"AUJL and AUJP are for different ECMs. They are not interchaneable. Both are for the L98 with an automatic. AUJL is for an '89 '165 ECM with MAF. AUJP is for '90 - '92 '7730 ECM with MAP (SD)."
Last edited by SbFormula; Feb 2, 2023 at 07:53 AM.
From @RBob
"AUJL and AUJP are for different ECMs. They are not interchaneable. Both are for the L98 with an automatic. AUJL is for an '89 '165 ECM with MAF. AUJP is for '90 - '92 '7730 ECM with MAP (SD)."
Thank you. I have the stock ECM. However I don't know what the number is off hand. It's actually a modified ARAP BIN for a manual 350. (went back and looked at my notes) Car used to be an automatic
Apyp might be the best start for a manual transmission.
Haven’t worked with flowtech heads so the stock 113 timing might be to much.
using this bins easy, change fan switch setting, delete vats. D3 offsets and flow single and double fire. Datalog to refine
Apyp might be the best start for a manual transmission.
Haven’t worked with flowtech heads so the stock 113 timing might be to much.
using this bins easy, change fan switch setting, delete vats. D3 offsets and flow single and double fire. Datalog to refine
Thanks I'll give it a shot. For EGR delete. Is that just set to an unrealistic number so it never comes into play?
Depends on the burner you going to use. 27c128 will work so will a 27c256. Those are uv eraseable the sst27sf512 is a eeprom and will work just load into upper section.
Depends on the burner you going to use. 27c128 will work so will a 27c256. Those are uv eraseable the sst27sf512 is a eeprom and will work just load into upper section.
I have the Moates Burn 2. I want the EEPROM not the UV one
A piggyback works, for tuning ease you can remove the sst and install a zif. Makes flashing faster. Long term not sure it’s a good thing for an automotive application.
So during my research I came across Injector offset tables or something in that neighborhood. I'm using the APYP as you suggested earlier with the 6E. I just grabbed a set of Bosch 3 30# injectors from Southbay. I'm just not clear as to where exactly this gets adjusted. Do I set the Single and Double fire scaler to 30 pounds to start?
Here's a tool I use to adjust MAF scalars/tables based on BLM/INT values. You need a data log to determine in which area you are rich/lean, then make mods.
Now beware you could max out the MAF tables it your 350 likes to breath!
Last edited by SbFormula; Feb 5, 2023 at 10:01 AM.
Here's a tool I use to adjust MAF scalars/tables based on BLM/INT values. You need a data log to determine in which area you are rich/lean, then make mods.
Now beware you could max out the MAF tables it your 350 likes to breath!
Can always add fuel to the PE rpm adder if it does. At WOT it does not overly matter how the fuel gets there as long as it gets there.
I think I'm going to load the APYP BIN. with the 6E. I've changed the Fuel injector voltage values with info from the Bosch 3 thread. Disabled VAT's and turned off the EGR...I think. Single and double fire scaler is set to 30# as well. @SbFormula , thanks for that thread. I took a look at the .BIN in that thread. Will that work with the 87 6E just in case I want to try it as a comparison. I'd really like to learn this on my own with the help of the community rather than just copy something over. I'm just using that as a guide at this point.
Here's a tool I use to adjust MAF scalars/tables based on BLM/INT values. You need a data log to determine in which area you are rich/lean, then make mods.
Now beware you could max out the MAF tables it your 350 likes to breath!
Probably one of several reasons why they used SD instead of MAF for the LT5.
Probably one of several reasons why they used SD instead of MAF for the LT5.
This is a complicated area. Some of the things I've been reading on the MAF suggests not to mess with it to much unless you've done something like pull the screens out of it.
Apyp might be the best start for a manual transmission.
Haven’t worked with flowtech heads so the stock 113 timing might be to much.
using this bins easy, change fan switch setting, delete vats. D3 offsets and flow single and double fire. Datalog to refine
I noticed the base timing on this BIN is 16 degrees. Is that correct? That seems pretty high. The base timing at least on the F-Body was 6. Unless this is an aluminum head Corvette specific timing.
I think I'm going to load the APYP BIN. with the 6E. I've changed the Fuel injector voltage values with info from the Bosch 3 thread. Disabled VAT's and turned off the EGR...I think. Single and double fire scaler is set to 30# as well. @SbFormula , thanks for that thread. I took a look at the .BIN in that thread. Will that work with the 87 6E just in case I want to try it as a comparison. I'd really like to learn this on my own with the help of the community rather than just copy something over. I'm just using that as a guide at this point.
EDITED:
I don't think it is going to work well. Several reasons:
Start-up fuel has to be adjusted for 350cid and 30# injectors
Open loop has to be retuned using AFR gauge
A.I.R.S. has to be disabled also
100mv O2 adjustment for A.I.R.S has to be zeroed out
MAF tables are going to be out of whack because of 350cid... Probably way too lean.
Probably need to adjust O2 windows for idle (need AFR gauge)
Whole SA tables need tuning for your application because of your LV8 curve (torque profile) which will be different than the LB9 as well as idle/cruise
PE tables need adjustment to match your torque profile.
Fan is set to work with 195°F thermostat
Initial timing is at 6*
Cold start injector still in place?
That's just a few things I can think of for now.
Last edited by SbFormula; Feb 5, 2023 at 12:17 PM.
I don't think it is going to work well. Several reasons:
Start-up fuel has to be adjusted for 350cid and 30# injectors
Open loop has to be retuned using AFR gauge
A.I.R.S. has to be disabled also
100mv O2 adjustment for A.I.R.S has to be zeroed out
MAF tables are going to be out of whack because of 350cid... Probably way too lean.
Probably need to adjust O2 windows for idle (need AFR gauge)
Whole SA tables need tuning for your application because of your LV8 curve (torque profile) which will be different than the LB9 as well as idle/cruise
PE tables need adjustment to match your torque profile.
Fan is set to work with 195°F
Initial timing is at 6*
Cold start injector still in place?
That's just a few things I can think of for now.
Years ago before tuning, I put a 305 MAF system on a 400 cid without tuning it. Had 30# injectors in it. Ran very well on that 400. It should run well albeit not perfect.
Years ago before tuning, I put a 305 MAF system on a 400 cid without tuning it. Had 30# injectors in it. Ran very well on that 400. It should run well albeit not perfect.
The tune the OP is talking about is not a stock APYS, but a modified one I posted. Way leaner than GM, so it does not have as much give to compensate for bigger cid.
EDITED:
By putting 30# without tuning, you basically adedd 58% (30/19) more fuel all things being equal. Since OEM tunes were already on rich side, that's probably why it was working. Just a shot in the dark that worked out well.
Last edited by SbFormula; Feb 5, 2023 at 02:59 PM.
EDITED:
I don't think it is going to work well. Several reasons:
Start-up fuel has to be adjusted for 350cid and 30# injectors
Open loop has to be retuned using AFR gauge
A.I.R.S. has to be disabled also
100mv O2 adjustment for A.I.R.S has to be zeroed out
MAF tables are going to be out of whack because of 350cid... Probably way too lean.
Probably need to adjust O2 windows for idle (need AFR gauge)
Whole SA tables need tuning for your application because of your LV8 curve (torque profile) which will be different than the LB9 as well as idle/cruise
PE tables need adjustment to match your torque profile.
Fan is set to work with 195°F thermostat
Initial timing is at 6*
Cold start injector still in place?
That's just a few things I can think of for now.
Are you saying the APYP BIN won't work or the one that was in your thread? I'm not running a 9th injector. I believe the APYP 6E does not even have the option for a 9th injector as they were already gone by 89. I'm running a 180 thermostat as well.
Are you saying the APYP BIN won't work or the one that was in your thread? I'm not running a 9th injector. I believe the APYP 6E does not even have the option for a 9th injector as they were already gone by 89. I'm running a 180 thermostat as well.
Yep the APYS I posted. I was thinking you might have the 9th injectors, but if it's gone, so yes APYS does not have 9th injectors.
EDITED:
As I reread the posts:
Yes my posted APYS bin will work with your '7165ecm $6E
Yes you can compare with the OEM APYS bin you intend to use
Will it work with the engine? That's what I was answering.
My modified APYS: I don't think it is going to work well despite your proposed adjustments (fuel injector voltage values, disabled VAT's, turned off the EGR, single and double fire scaler is set to 30#).
Several reasons: Start-up fuel has to be adjusted for 350cid and 30# injectors Open loop has to be retuned using AFR gauge A.I.R.S. has to be disabled also 100mv O2 adjustment for A.I.R.S has to be zeroed out MAF tables are going to be out of whack because of 350cid... Probably way too lean. Probably need to adjust O2 windows for idle (need AFR gauge) Whole SA tables need tuning for your application because of your LV8 curve (torque profile) which will be different than the LB9 as well as idle/cruise PE tables need adjustment to match your torque profile. Fan is set to work with 195°F thermostat Initial timing is at 6*
OEM APYS: Some issues despite your proposed adjustments (fuel injector voltage values, disabled VAT's, turned off the EGR, single and double fire scaler is set to 30#): Start-up fuel has to be adjusted for 350cid and 30# injectors Open loop has to be retuned using AFR gauge A.I.R.S. has to be disabled also 100mv O2 adjustment for A.I.R.S has to be zeroed out MAF tables are probably going to be lean Probably need to adjust O2 windows for idle (need AFR gauge) PE tables need adjustment to match your torque profile.
Fan is set at 226°F!!!!!!!!
HYW mode is on and is inaccurate
ESC is disabled under 104°F Discrepancies with Commended SA and SA recorded at balancer Initial timing is at 6*
BLM boundaries are inefficient
Sorry for confusion
Last edited by SbFormula; Feb 5, 2023 at 01:01 PM.
Yep the APYS I posted. I was thinking you might have the 9th injectors, but if it's gone, so yes APYS does not have 9th injectors.
EDITED:
As I reread the posts:
Yes my posted APYS bin will work with your '7165ecm $6E
Yes you can compare with the OEM APYS bin you intend to use
Will it work with the engine? That's what I was answering.
My modified APYS: I don't think it is going to work well despite your proposed adjustments (fuel injector voltage values, disabled VAT's, turned off the EGR, single and double fire scaler is set to 30#).
Several reasons: Start-up fuel has to be adjusted for 350cid and 30# injectors Open loop has to be retuned using AFR gauge A.I.R.S. has to be disabled also 100mv O2 adjustment for A.I.R.S has to be zeroed out MAF tables are going to be out of whack because of 350cid... Probably way too lean. Probably need to adjust O2 windows for idle (need AFR gauge) Whole SA tables need tuning for your application because of your LV8 curve (torque profile) which will be different than the LB9 as well as idle/cruise PE tables need adjustment to match your torque profile. Fan is set to work with 195°F thermostat Initial timing is at 6*
OEM APYS: Some issues despite your proposed adjustments (fuel injector voltage values, disabled VAT's, turned off the EGR, single and double fire scaler is set to 30#): Start-up fuel has to be adjusted for 350cid and 30# injectors Open loop has to be retuned using AFR gauge A.I.R.S. has to be disabled also 100mv O2 adjustment for A.I.R.S has to be zeroed out MAF tables are probably going to be lean Probably need to adjust O2 windows for idle (need AFR gauge) PE tables need adjustment to match your torque profile.
Fan is set at 226°F!!!!!!!!
HYW mode is on and is inaccurate
ESC is disabled under 104°F Discrepancies with Commended SA and SA recorded at balancer Initial timing is at 6*
BLM boundaries are inefficient
Sorry for confusion
It's not you who's confusing me lol. I'm doing just fine on my own in that regard. As for that fan data. What parameter am I looking for to make the 180 degree change? There's quite a few that mention fan. As for anything that mentions TCC. Do i basically zero all that seeing as I'm running a 5 speed?
On another not. I just read my very old JET Performance Stage 1 chip. Is that ever different. Base timing is 64 degrees and advance is set to 88 degrees, and look at that spark advance table.
It's not you who's confusing me lol. I'm doing just fine on my own in that regard. As for that fan data. What parameter am I looking for to make the 180 degree change? There's quite a few that mention fan. As for anything that mentions TCC. Do i basically zero all that seeing as I'm running a 5 speed?
If you use APYS, the AT parameters are already turned off for you from factory.
For the FAN, use TunerPro and bring it down to what ever you want. I like to set mine 10°F over thermostat temp, so for 180°F, I set 190°F. Personal preference. Others might chime in with their experience. If you have dual fans, you need to change the fan#2 switch on the engine for a lower temp one.
Please search TGO (I know it takes time). All your questions are most likely already answered.
This is a complicated area. Some of the things I've been reading on the MAF suggests not to mess with it to much unless you've done something like pull the screens out of it.
GM would have needed a unique MAF sensor just for the LT5. The air horn is a large oval to accommodate the twin 58mm throttle blades plus a small one used for idle and light cruise. Also, the LT5 was capable of exceeding 100% VE. It will suck the vinyl cover off a binder at idle if put up against air horn. Ported it breathes quite heavily.
It's not you who's confusing me lol. I'm doing just fine on my own in that regard. As for that fan data. What parameter am I looking for to make the 180 degree change? There's quite a few that mention fan. As for anything that mentions TCC. Do i basically zero all that seeing as I'm running a 5 speed?
On another not. I just read my very old JET Performance Stage 1 chip. Is that ever different. Base timing is 64 degrees and advance is set to 88 degrees, and look at that spark advance table.
Corrupt data. Either you read the chip using the wrong offsets or it is a different operating system.
Yep, most high performance engine with TPI style intake can achieve over 100% VE. It's amazing. My 383 does and it's a problem with stock '7730 as VE tables are maxed at 100%. (I guess we should not hack this thread!!)
Originally Posted by Dominic Sorresso
It will suck the vinyl cover off a binder at idle if put up against air horn.
On another not. I just read my very old JET Performance Stage 1 chip.
When I bought my bone stock '89 IROC, the previous owner (R.I.P.), who knew not much about cars, wanted is IROC-Z to be faster as he thought she was sluggish. Little he knew, she needed some tune-up, etc... But that's another story. So his buddy, who I assume knew as much as he did, convinced him to buy a JET Performance chip. Well he did but never installed it. So long story short, when I bought the car, the chip came with it in its original box and invoice. I did a comparison with the OEM APYS from the IROC-Z and all JET did was up the timing at 4400-4800 rpm in the main SA table at maximum LV8 of 208.
Here's the kicker. The LB9 barely reached 192 LV8 from 4400rpm and up and SA was being pulled by the ESC anyway!!!!!!!!!. The chip was useless.
I copied it, kept the adapter and threw the rest in garbage where it belonged.
Problem is, I overwrote the BIN by mistake so I can't substantiate what I am saying. Sad story.
When I bought my bone stock '89 IROC, the previous owner (R.I.P.), who knew not much about cars, wanted is IROC-Z to be faster as he thought she was sluggish. Little he knew, she needed some tune-up, etc... But that's another story. So his buddy, who I assume knew as much as he did, convinced him to buy a JET Performance chip. Well he did but never installed it. So long story short, when I bought the car, the chip came with it in its original box. I did a comparison with the OEM APYS from the IROC-Z and all JET did was up the timing at 4400-4800 rpm in the main SA table at maximum LV8 of 208.
Here's the kicker. The LB9 barely reached 192 LV8 from 4400rpm and up. The chip was useless.
I copied it, kept the adapter and threw the rest in garbage where it belonged.
Problem is, I overwrote the BIN by mistake so I can't substantiate what I am saying. Sad story.
Well I have the chip in front of me. If I can figure what offset I'm supposed to use I'd be more than happy to get it to you so you can laugh allover again at what a ripoff it was
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is this viewed with a $32B xdf ? 
so much to learn.......