overhere in germany we have no speed limit!
several clubmembers lost there altenators when coming off the autobahn ...bearing failure...it seams that the heat buildup killed the sys.! on porsche cars there is a cooling hose to prevent that!
also the 100 and 105 amp altenator seems to be a bit low on power ! the bc4 had a 120 amp version...do they also use the csi 130 case?are there companys with stock case design and more power and better hipo inner parts ????we also need info on where to get inner altenator parts!

 

German,

Look at https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/009974.html for a post which may contain an answer to your question. This discussion was about upgrading the CS-130 (that has a known heating problem often occuring to the rectifier/regulator) to a CS-130D, as well as the CS-144 which I understand is an upgrade to the CS-130D.

I don't know what is available in Germany, but I'd imagine that you should be able to get a rebuild kit locally or through the Internet/postal system to get the internal parts. I know Summit and J.C. Whitney, to mention two places, sell what is called an "Iceburg" rebuilding kit for the CS-130 alternator which inculdes the rear half of the case which contains a small heatsink area on the rear as well as a larger hole to contain a larger rear bearing, both to help keep it cooler, as well as a new rectifier, etc. It's $50 for the standard or $100 for the output upgrade (to 140-150 ampere).

If you just wanted a bearing, I'd think that you could go to any bearing shop in Germany to get what you need (I've seen bearing shops elsewhere in the world...).

I believe the alternator you mentioned for the B4C is a 140 ampere, and is a large case (as opposed to the small case, i.e. CS-130) - I think. You can do a search either in the electronics or general engine sections to find the post made late last year. There was a bracket (see the link I entered above for the part number) to accommodate this large case alternator.

You could use an underdrive (larger diameter) pulley on the alternator so it'd rotate slower, but then you'd loose output when driving slower, especially at idle, and I don't think that that's what you wanted.

If you want the same or more output as well as being less temperature sensitive, then I'd look at the "144" style mentioned in the above link.

[This message has been edited by Stuart Moss (edited June 21, 2001).]

 

stuart,
checked the post you stated...
got all the info we needed some of us will choose the upgrade kit others will change to 130D or 144 large case!
anyone intrested should also move to the post stuart wrote in his repley to keep things simple!
mario

 

A 120 amps is not enough. Good GAWD, I have a 100-amp service for my house, and that is enough.

What is drawing over 100 amps?

 

plssssssssss read my post first ...before you....!!
i did asked to reply all post to stuart and jason´s link!
100amp in a lg4 fine ...no power nothing no efi little carb and from time to time a brake lite sucking power...oh there is a coil too called hei !
if live has more to offer u get a gta fully loaded with efi 3 fans to finally cool the engine down ...pumpin stereo and alarm ...so on!
at idle ...see the jason side ( check alt-perm.com) the altenator has less output...not only that was my concern but also the weak stock bearing on the 130 case....and also the heat build up in the stock case!! from the factory i have a 105 amp alt with a tiny battery location ! driving at nite with lites and stereo on they get useless!
i hope this helps "73" what we were talkin about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

One cannot equally compare a 100 ampere "home service" to a 100 ampere automotive system just by the amperage because one is 120 or 220 volts (the home) and the other is 12 volts (automobile).

A 120 volt 100 ampere service would be 12,000VA (volt/ampere) but only one tenth (0.1) that at 12 volts. Since most homes bring in 220/240 volts (splitting that to get 120VAC), then the difference would be even greater if those figures are used. The point I'm attempting to make is that it isn't a fair comparison because of the voltage difference.

Some guys, especially those running a high end sound system, can easily require over 200 amperes.

The fans (~30 amperes for both operating together), ignition, lights, fuel pump, fan, wipers, defroster, windows as well as charging the battery after every start, are just some of the the things that demand a good amount of current. And that is just stock. Add a high end sound system and you may not even be able to find one to supply all the current needed (at least continuously).

Good (standard?) engineering practice is to use an alternator that is rated well above the actual current needs. So right there you can figure you'll need around 30% or so additional amperes from the alternator just for the safety margin (future needs, etc.)

Years ago (early 1960's ?) a 37 ampere alternator was the norm, then it went up to about 55/65 amperes, and now to about 100. We've got so many electrical needs now that that figure will soon be too little - or is too little already... There has been some talk of using a higher voltage (i.e. 48 volts) to replace the 12 volt system for the automobile. Anyone remember the 6 volt system (old VW for example)???

Anyway Mario, please let us (me) know how it works out. I too would like to get the 144 alternator (140 amperes) and would be curious to know your results.

FYI, I've have the "Iceburg" kit ($50) on my CS-130 for 30K miles and so far I'm happy with it. The larger rear bearing and added aluminum on the rear half for better cooling sure make a lot of sense. If nothing else, it seems to be at least a good interim solution.

[This message has been edited by Stuart Moss (edited June 21, 2001).]

 

There is also ABS, A/C, yada, yada, yada....

Fans may draw 30 amps at startup, but not while running. And that is if the fans are on.

Yes, your shooting for worst case, but there is no way your alternator is dumping 130 Amps contantly. If it were and per NEC coding (again for a house, but in the ball park, you'd need 4 AWG wire off the alt).

I'm not trying to step on anyones toes, but saying you have a 140 amp alternator and actually having a 140 amp load is two different things.

The only way a "high end" sound system uses more current than a conventinal sound system (a watt to watt compare) is if the amp is a Type A or Vacuum tube design.

 

Not true. Note that I said "both operating together", and not "30 amperes each.

On my 1991 Camaro with dual GM electric fans each fan draws ~49 amperes at start up, which lasts for ~0.4 seconds, and then will draw ~17 amperes (each) while running. These figures were obtained with a source voltage of 14.2 volts. I had posted "~30 amperes for both operating together" which, if you take 17 amperes (each) times two (there are two fans), that equals 34 amperes run (not start up) current. Granted the ~100 ampere startup current (both fans) will not concern me for the alternator's rating, but the continuous current certainly will.

That's why many people using high output alternators use 4 gauge wire off the alternator (for the lowest voltage drop).

But they are interrelated. I maintain that some people do indeed need or require an alternator that will put out a large amount of current (they would consider 140 amperes to be a "baby"). Granted, not many, but many that are running a lot of amplifiers/speakers can easily require this much, expecially when you consider that they like to listen to their music loud or like the public to listen to it several blocks away... Even if you don't have an "exotic" sound system, you may still want a high output (140 ampere or more) alternator for the reason(s) cited in the last paragraph.

Well, that depends upon how you define "high end" and "convential". It is easy to understand (at least for me) that a "high end" system will draw more (often much more) current than a convential (basic) system because many amplifiers/speakers are often used. Perhaps instead of using "high end", I should have said "multiple amplifer at a high sound pressure".

Regardless, when you consider the safety margin (as posted above) an alternator should have, plus the total of the load, I do not believe that 140 amperes would be considered excessive. Personally, 105 amperes for me is fine, but I would want an alternator with a higher output because then I'd have more current available at idle and more current available to charge the battery. Necessary? Probably not. Preferred? For me, yes.

 

thank´s stuart u again jumped in!!
"73" our topic was another one go beat ur wife if u need to battle someone....lol...!
anyone with a 144 case on a tpi motor?????