Can an 89 camaro with the vats chip be started by a thief??Is it possible???

 

Yeah. Why, you looking for one cheap?!

 

Seriously can they???

 

Yep, my 89 Formula had been stolen from it's previous owner at least once.

 

Then whats the point of it????what exactly does it due anyway???

 

Not 100% sure, but I think the whole point of VATS is to prevent the car (ECM?) from starting if the resistence between 2 wires is not what it is supposed to be.

VATS will make the car harder to steel, but it will not prevent someone from driving up to your car with a tow truck (or something rented at U-Haul) and pulling it away.

 

VATS keeps the car from starting if it doesn't detect the 'chip' (resistor) in the key. It is a theft deterent, i.e., it makes the car more difficult to steal, not impossible.

 

anything can be stolen!!! except for the mercedes with the laser cut key...! just ask GM why the caddilac escalade made the list of the top stolen SUV in america the last two years!!! 55 grand for something that high tech and someone steal it easier than a 3RD GEN....... i'd rather take that 55 G's and buy 11 more iroc's!!!!!

 

With 55g's you could buy 11 F-bodies, and mod each of them.:lala:

 

anything can be stolen even cars that require special keys...no matter what kind of theft systems are on them, the thieves will always be able to learn the newest technology to steal a vehicle.....

 

Locks were designed to keep honest people honest. The only 100% theft proof system is the one they used on a Lotus in a James Bond flick...you touch the car...it explodes.
But back to reality....A good line lock that uses the "round" key and a key operated kill switch are about the best deterrants to theft.
That or leave a large hungry dog inside the car.

 

And the only problem with the large hungry dog is he might decide to eat you or the seats and then deposit the end results on the floorboards.

 

Of course it can be stolen. It's fifteen year-old technology. Heck, even the newest anti theft systems are not 100% reliable. My car has a shock sensor, so nobody can get it on a trailer without it making a lot of noise, it has a self-arming starter kill, it has a queer motion detector inside the car that will detect the movement of a hand, and it can even trigger it when a cat runs under the car (damm cats) and it even has a few more features. But I still worry about the thing when I leave it somewhere because I know, nothing is 100% theftproof.

 

And that is why 99.99% of people ignore car alarms or just complain about all the @!#$#$%#@@ noise they make.

 

Yup. But at least I will be alerted, and plus, my car is darn near stock, who would want it? The point is to make it harder to steal than the next car, I guess...

 

Heck, even a blinking light on the dash is more of a deterent than nothing at all. A thief who is just looking for an easy opportunity will bypass anything that looks potentially like it might alert someone. If someone REALLY wants to get your car, they probably will no matter what you do.

 

how hard is it for em to bypass the starter kill? My alarm has that, and I love that lol.

 

I really like your Bodyguard Idea in your sig...

John

 

ya... its great isnt it

 

you LUCKY man!!!!!!!!! where was that taken?

 

haha. it was a gathering in my Fbody Club, www.ufba.org we all went to hooters, and most of us got that pic http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/571084/6 theres another angle of it

 

i think your camaro is smileing in that pic isnt it....??

 

wouldnt you be? LOL

 

well duh ....LOL


looks like it was a good time thou '

 

You suck cause I didn't get to go to that event.

 

without an aftermarket alarm system on it or at least a hidden kill switch, someone who knows what they are doing can drive off in a thirdgen that has the factory VATS in well under 2 minutes. this includes breaking the column in the right spot, then breaking the right parts in the column, bypassing both the starter relay & the fuel shut off from the ECM.

barring they have a "code grabber" to get the remote signal, with an aftermarket alarm system, it depends on how good of a system it is & how well it was installed.

1 of the best things to get for any car or truck with a Saginaw type column to help prevent it being driven off in is a thing called a steadfast steering column collar,

http://www.steadfastautosecurity.com/gnpage.htm

once installed they are completely passive, other than the change in appearance of the column its just as if its not there.

if you do get one of these, i highly recommend replacing all the switches, the lock cylinder & any other worn or damaged parts in the column & then everything checked for proper operation before its installed. once its on there, it doesn't come off easily or quickly.


**edit** a GM car without any kind of alarm system, VATS, or anything else can be stolen by someone who knows what they are doing in less than 10 seconds from walk up to drive off using nothing else but a screw driver**

 

shoot it doesnt even take me that long! you have to remember that the GM's key encoding system was developed more than 20 years ago. any ex locksmith or gm mech, or mech that knows how the system works can steal the car in less than 10 sec, with a screw driver! VATS works of a number of magnets "X' encoded with a resistance. so if you take all the "X" 's turn the key cylinder to the start position and try each magnet one by one, it only takes a couple of seconds.

starter kills are a load of crap too! first of all for a starter kill to work correctly it has to be installed correctly. which more than half arnt, or dont work correctly! can you start your car with the alarm going off? can you start you car with the alarm unpluged?if so this means your starter kill doesnt work! also starter kill is just a relay all someone has to do is disconnect the relay and plug two wires together...

just my 2c...

 

you must be thinking about somthing else.
there isnt a single magnet in the entire VATS system. atleast for 3rdgens and other late 80s and up GM VATS.


that "pellet" on the key is a resistor.
nothing more.

heres how it works.(im not going into details, this is just a overview)

the key goes in, putting that resistor between two wires.
the wires connect to a box underthe dash.
this box sends the ECM a square wave signal at a specific frequency.

if the ECM does not recieve this signal
starter is disabled
injectors wont fire
fuel pump relay wont be turned on.

 

There are about 16 different Resistors.

John

 

I agree with MrDude on this one.

When I was a kid, I bought a remote start for my manual Grand Am. I found a single company that would make these kits for manual cars and I didn't find a single shop in 30 miles that would install it. (liability issues, since if the car starts by itself and is in gear, it can kill someone. or maybe just scare them).

The way remote start worked it was actually safe for manual car because you had to lock the door and then turn it off with the remote. Only then would it start next time. So basically I set off to installing it myself and that company actually had pretty good detail about Grand Am's in specific.

When installing this box (with alarm), I had to do several things first: 1) bypass the clutch pedal switch so car can be started without someone pushing on the pedal. and 2) disable factory VATS. This is where this whole story gets relevant. To disable VATS all I had to do was measure the resistence between the two sides of my key. It was something like 4.7 kohms. Then I want to RadioShack and bought ONE resistor which was within 10% of that value. Connected it between the wires specified in the instructions and cut these wire ends that were actually going to key cylinder. That was it.

If this ONE resister didn't disable the whole thing, there is no way I would ever be able to start the car since original wires that would read key resistence were permanently cut and removed.

Of course all this was done on 98 Grand Am. Maybe on thirdgen it is a series of resistors and magnets (maybe even rubber bands). That I know nothing about (yet). But I also through that VATS is VATS. If it is different technology, wouldn't they come up with a different name.


So knowing this and knowing that ECM will refuse to play unless the right resistence is in the key cylinder (and only the original factory key knows what the resistence is), I don't really see an easy way to start the car without it. Maybe if you bring your own ECM and plug it in? But that's not a 10 second job.

But there are other ways. I can think of a tow truck. Or they can probably go to a dealer, pretend they are you and get a replacement key specifically for your VIN.

 

no you hit it on the head.

i doubt a car theif stealing my car will read this sooo:

theres a spare key in my camaro.its a normal, flat, non vats igition key. it turns, but of course, it wont start.


i just reach under the dash, and unplug the two small wires from the connector (i used a ultra low resistance, vibration proof nitro RC car connector there) and plug in my resistor i bought from radio shack (also happens to be 4.7k for my car )

and the car starts with the normal key.

this is for if i ever lose my keys or somthing... plus the paint shop can roll my car around, but not drive it.

 

Is there anywhere I can look for information to actually put VATS ON my car (I know about the chip needs it turned on. ) I think there would be some advantages to it... Nothings perfect, but its a step in the right direction...

Edit: Actually thinking about this thread, it may be locked because the information could be used against us... Or at least our cars...

John

 

okfoz, if this thread was to be locked, would you be the guy to do that.

As far as info that can be used against us... everything we've said here is common knowledge. VATS is fairly easy system and most guys who steal cars know about it. As much as I don't want to admit this, but if we want to learn something new about car security, we probably should be asking people who steal cars, not each other.

Actually the more I was thinking about it, VATS can probably be easily bypassed with variable resistor (or a few for different ranges).

I think far better security would be to install a real alarm and make sure it is installed correctly (i.e. started, fuel pump kill is actually functional.) Also make sure alarm unit and all relays it is connected to are not easily accessible.

 

VATS is only part of the answer to auto theft, as has already been said, a good alarm system is another part to it. on an alarm system, the best thing to do is find a good 1 & install it yourself.
get the alarm system's wiring so it looks like it is part of the cars wiring harness. reroute the starter wire, relocate the starter relay, hide everything. put a steadfast on, make it such a pain in the butt that they either have to get a tow truck or move on to someone else's car.
just because the newest thridgen is 12+ years old doesn't mean its way down the list to steal. good clean body parts for older cars still draw a good price, a killer motor ups the probablity of theft.

 

AHHHHHHHHH!

but it cant!


you see. thats the beauty of it.
you may know it takes a key. just like you know your regular key moves the tumblers.

but until you have the info of where to put each tumbler, the key does not turn.



you see, everytime you try the wrong combo, you have to wait several mins... and its accumulative so several wrong tries results in you waiting forever.
if someone would attempt to steal a car this way, they would be better off calling for a towtruck and waiting.


if the system could just flip thru only 16 keys, it would be worthless... 16 resistors, a box, rotory and a fake key with wires to the box would be all thats needed....... VATS would have never worked.

but, tis more then that.
this knowlage can help you steal a car... if you're doing research on it. but if you're THAT indepth, you'll also know how long it would take you to steal.
this info helps people with these cars, while not helping a criminal, determined to find how to steal a 20 year old car without damaging it..( )

 

when i went carb obviously vats was long gone...so i installed a hidden switch for the fuel pump realy...everynight before i turn the car off i turn off the switch so the fuel pump turns off...burn up the rest of the gas in the carb and its not going anywere..other then a tow truck...i key up flip the switch carb fills up wtih gas...

when i had VATS it started acting up the morning i was going from NY to MI...at first it wouldnt start so i bump started it...it ran fine but wouldnt restart if i turn it off...the second i pulled into my drieway 650 miles later it went into limp home mode..and that was it...wouldnt refire or run...450 bucks later it worked.

 

VATS isnt easy to by pass all you need is a half volt reference sent to the computer. hense the resistor in the key. On some gm 3800's you can ground one of the wires going to the coil pack and it will run. I did once when a vats system was acting up.

 

actually, you need a square wave signal at a specific frequency sent to the ECM.

 

its very easy to jump the starter. gettign the engine running isn't hard at all.

pretty much just connect the positive terminal wiht a thick guage wire, to the purple wire in the harness going to the starter, and wala, it will turn over.


I learned this when my solenoid started going bad. Nifty trick sinc ei always carry my jumper cables, they work great.

 

Helps with theft my car has been stolen befor now it has 3 different toggle switches one is for ign the other fuel pump incase some smart *** trys to jump the starter. The other lets just say the cars not moving unless u get a tow truck ..... but they would have to get through my garage first because that were its been since it got stolen. I forgot they better have a vise grip handy cause i also have a removable sterring wheel the alarm helps to. So i give congrats to someone who can find and turn on 3 switches (after ripping the colum apart and seeing it wont start ). Then putting on the visegrip as the alarm is going off all inside my garage with me in the next room with my shotgun, so if they want my RS that bad and think they can do all that in the 1min it takes me to get up and open the door then i more than welcome them to come and try. I might sound over protective but now my car is BRANDED salvaged because it got stolen so i cant sell it for **** cause everyone has some big thing about not buying salvaged cars, so that pissed me off so i am making sure it wont happen again.

 

very nice havoxRS!

 

And another thread back from the dead and yes ChevyRacer, that little trick that you mentioned works great on cars such as yours that don't have the VATS system installed

 

you know... if you really dont want someone to steal your car, you could always unplug a couple spark plug wires... time consuming and a PITA but if your really **** or have to park your car in a bad area at least you will know that nobody is taking it without a tow truck. if it doesnt start the theif wont exactly kno why it isnt and in the dark he wont b able to see un plugged spark plug wires all to well and quite possibily give up...

 

WHAT! Pulling the fuse to the fuel pump (under the hood) is MUCH easier, quicker, and less obvious.

 

err... srry i was referring to cars in general, as not all cars have computers...

 

I had an uncle who went out drinking, dispite the protests of his wife. He pulled all the wires off the distributor so she could not go any where and chase him...

The short of it was she got under the hood and just put them back on... the car ran like crap but she finally cought up with him at the bar.... you can only see where this is going...

My point is if someone wants it bad enough there is nothing you can do but hope your insurance pulls through...

John

 

i have a chance to buy a 91 z28.The guy that has it now got in to it with his girl friend and she threw the key out the window of his buddies car . He never found the key. he tried to change the key switch but just ended up giving up. I just parted out an 89 rs it has a very nice column. Could I just switch columns for this car to start or do I have to get the right key for that car. How would I get this done. I can buy the car cheap so I wouldn't hesitate spending a few bucks on it.

 

Iroccer, start a new thread - your off the topic of this one.

 

Yes Vats equipped cars can be stolen, just grab a tow truck and the car is gone.

 

sorry will do