8492bird

vats1[1].pdf

This is what I've used for reference on two different cars.

w_mortell

will that work with a manual transmission? I just bought a bank repo firebird w/ no keys, I had to get it towed home. I have ran wires to the fuel pump and the starter relay, and I can get it to start, but I cannot get it to idle. I have to tap on the gas a bunch . I dont know if it is the VATS talkin to me or if it is just a simple case of bad gas........if you got an answer, or a suggestion even. let me know, It would be most appreciated

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

A short read up on VATS would let you know that it disables the starter and fuel injectors. Which means that if the engine fires up and you can sometimes hold the idle for a little, it's not VATS.

You're lucky this time.

Lou

deadtemple

Sorry to tell you but that is the VATS! I did the same thing with mine, could get it to start, but it would not stay running. i tried everything with trying to get the right ohms to bypass the relays, but to no avail. i was lucky enough for a member to send me a bypass chip to install in the Ecm to get it running. It has been fine ever since. Just installed a kill switch so no one else can steal it.

The VATS is tricky do not let it fool you. Have Fun!

86TpiTransAm

I have to agree with BigBabyLou on this one. The VATS module is wired into the starter enable relay and if you don't have the correct key or the VATS module is bad, the starter enable relay will never energize and you won't get the engine to even crank. So if you can get the car to start at all and then it dies on you then it's not VATS that's causing the problem.

86TpiTransAm

There's also a simpler way to COMPLETELY bypass the VATS module that only requires 1 wire modification. You can locate the starter enable relay (typically located under the left kick panel) and cut the Black/Yellow wire and ground the relay side of the cut wire. This wire from stock is connected to the VATS module and the module creates a ground when it reads the correct resistor value from the key. By grounding the wire you're creating a constant ground and allowing the starter enable relay to energize whether you have a VATS key or a regular key.

There are pros and cons to both my method and BigBabyLou's method. However, both methods work just fine and it's personally up to you to decide which method you'd rather use.

My Method:
Pro(s) - More factory functions left intact, easier modification since you only have to locate and cut 1 wire.
Con(s) - You still have 1 more failure point to worry about with this method (the starter enable relay)

BigBabyLou's Method:
Pro(s) - 1 less failure point to worry about (no starter enable relay)
Con(s) - 2 wires to locate, cut, strip, and splice together. Also less factory functions are left intact (power spikes will travel directly to the ignition switch instead of through the relay which could ultimately save the ignition switch).

jordon707

hi every one I myself have had more than my share of the 91 305 but I think the problem is within the fuel injectors check the resistance on each injector they should have I think more than 20 ohms any less and it will fry the computer.
has any one used the self diagnostics mode of the computer? is it reading multiple error codes... if it is then your computer is probably already fried. If not you need to find another eprom or try to get it reprogrammed.Also, I found that the VATS system (in extreme temperatures) does not receive signal from the resistor because the pick ups don't have a good contact. Here's the list of what I've done on this Camarro:

REPAIRS COMPLETE UPDATED 8/31/07
1) T.P.S first error code fixed but no go
2) AIR FILTERS
3) BELT
4) FUEL FILTER
5) OIL CHANGE
6) P.C.V VALVE
7) SPARK PLUGS
8) PLUG WIRES
9) DISTRIBUTOR CAP AND ROTAR
10) O2 SENSOR another error code (rich fuel ratio) fixed...nope
11) REAR VIEW MIRROR
12) VACUUM LINE FOR CRUSE CONTROL AND FUEL VAPOR
13) REMAN E.C.U $89 at autozone
14) ACCEL 19LB/HR FUEL INJECTORS(8) good deal at jegs.com under $200
15) FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR just because I was there
16) FUEL RAIL SEALS
17) ENGINE COOLANT TEMP SENSOR like everyone else the primary fan still does not turn on...I think it is either the engine coolant temp sensor has the wrong values or system voltage low/hi maybe it is the eprom fan settings I dont know now but will keep you informed as I learn more about it. hey if you have a dual fan set up with NO extra or broken wires try finding a potentiometer(trim pot,adjustable resistor) I used a trim pot from some broken piece of electronic junk it tested 25-50.000 ohms remember any less than 20 ohms total (E.C.T sensor + your minimal trim pot ohms)
will fry the computer(E.C.U) basically by back probing the trim pot in to the E.C.T sensor plug with engine hot and the trim pot set at low I tricked the E.C.U to turn on the primary fan but it was tricky to get it set right.
I will let you what tricks work good soon
the secondary fan turns on at like 195-200 F.


TESTS NEEDED
1) TEST RESISTANCE ON E.C.T WIRES TO E.C.U
2) CONFIRM/UPDATE EPROM -FAN ON/FAN OFF- VALUES



COMMENTS

THE PRIMARY FAN DOES NOT TURN ON (NEED TO CHECK WIRES FOR EXTRA RESISTANCE)AND THE SECONDARY FAN IS ON AROUND 195-210'F ALSO THE A/C MAY NEED TO BE RECHARGED AS THE PRESSURE CYCLING SWITCH IS KEEPING THE A/C SYSTEM FROM WORKING I DID
NOTICE AN OILY RESIDUE ON THE CONDENSER AROUND THE HOSE FITTINGS WHILE I WAS WASHING THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT THE A/C MAY NEED SEALS

ld91

Help me please!! I'm literally grasping for straws and willing to try anything.

I bought a 91 camaro RS, 5 speed that the previous owner had lost the keys. Instead of going to a dealer to get replacement, he tried to replace ignition. I got the correct ignition with key from dealer put it in and now can't get it to start or even turn over. I have power and security light stays on, just nothng beyond that.

I know this has something to do with the VATS and have tried all the different bypasses, even took it to the dealer and had module read to be sure I was matching resistance levels. Is there something I'm missing? Is there a way to completely remove this from the car? Any suggestions or help would really be appreciated.

Thanks. ld91

xChAoSx

Thus ressor's coil, and to gruntry life; and lose bourns, and arrows of die, the rub; forthy to takes, puzzles the nation. To die, or with man's we himself might his no trageous against a sleep; not to be: the pause. Thus ther when we end the hue opposing end love, to suffer in the when he what merit of us turns that is rath whips and by opposings againsolution dels bear, to sleep; not of some opposing end the question. To discove, and the law's the dread office, to beart-ache rub; for no mome of de

ld91

Already have the codes for the key and the module both. Have already done the bypass resistor thing to no avail. Have tried the grounding of the starter relay and still no crank.

thanks
ld91

82 Iron Duke

iTrader: (21)

I have an 89 2.8 and my understanding is I only have the starter disable, can someone elaborate a bit more on this method, if I find the wire which side do I ground?
Thanks

83z28camaro

The 89 2.8 cars only used the starter disable relay. It is located behind the drivers side kick panel. You will have to ground the green wire to the relay. Or jumper the two larger wires I think they are yellow and purple.

Mike

82 Iron Duke

iTrader: (21)

OK, I got it to crank but that's all she does I am boosting the car because I haven't started her in several months. It cranks and cranks until it seems like the battery is dying, any other suggestions or should I just keep trying

pontiacfreak92

i

First, I have to say this site is one of the best GM sources for this era vehicle <period!>. I rarely have any reason to comment, post, ask questions, or clarify.

Next, if one of these two fixes does not make your problem go away, IT IS NOT THE MODULE. I would suggest the 1 wire method, except I used a t-tap, and connected to an existing ground lug, with a jumper wire, and ring terminal. A simple jump to ground which can be removed, and reprotected when an appropiate module can be obtained.

A relay is much easier to diagnose than dealing with the problems listed above using the AT <only> circuit bypass. Not to mention, the small gauge wire you are feeding current through. Sorry BigBabyLou, but TPiTransAm's version is a less intrusive and a more universal method. Your solution would work well as a test to bypass the relay, and VATS.

edyer1

I have this problem but I can't find the Thick tan/white wire were is it under the dash? Help!!
----------
I have this problem but I can't find the Thick tan/white wire were is it under the dash? Help!!

Jagu07

i would suggest to check the ignition cylinder to see if any of the two wires are broke it so then just change the cylinder and go to your nearest Coverlet dealer to get a copy of the key with the chip.. they key is only 25 dollars that how much they charged me. i would also sueggest to change the ignition swith with is on the stearing colum its self just above the break pedle.

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

On some cars, GM used a dark green/white wire. There are two thick wires on the A/T gear selector switch, the second one is always purple. But the first one is either tan/white or green/white. Or maybe GM made up another color too.
Thank god that GM uses multiple colors for the same wire. What if we accidentally memorized the colors and used them to our advantage? Thank you, GM!

Lou

vette9190

iTrader: (2)

There is more to vats then the ingnition cylinder and resistor.
There is the actuall module located on the firewall behind the dash. It is a small black box with a pwb in it it can also go bad and give alot of weird symtoms. This is what i had happen to me. the car would crank and fire but die out soon after. it was the module. a solder joint had blown thru on the board. i ripped apart my dash pulled the unit out and checked everything on the board till I found the blow hole in the solder joint. resoldered it and the car ran finew after that.

I think some people get hung up on the resistor being the issue and that is not always the case.

I have since bypassed the unit with a chip and removed the starter enable relay when i Swapped from TBI to TPI

sacramento

Hey i had an alarm on my 1991 z28 camaro and i took it off,since i took it off i can't seemeto be able to start it.It want do anything at all could ou please help me i really need to get it running cause that is the only car i have right now so please help me.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

The last post in this thread was almost 2 years ago. Youd probably be better off starting your own thread, and going into more details about your problems.

sandiegobird

I have been pounding my head over this EXACT problem all day long. Just wanted to say the information in this thread is extremely good thank you.

icorsoln

I'm a little confused, anyways in short same problem with my VATS just installed a new starter today it won't even turn over. So I read this forum, someone said the solution ie wire was for an automatic transmission? I have a '91 305 TPI Manual 5 speed... Which wires do I cut to bypass the VATS. I've been stuck for three days trying to figure this out, thanks for this website and its useful information and the people that support it!

Thanks again for any help with this solution.

icorsoln

Just checked my key pellet and it says 04.71 ohms?

travis401

iTrader: (1)

there is no "wire to cut to bypass VATS" the only way to bypass the VATS module is with a VATS bypass module. you can bypass the steering column half of the VATS system with resistors, but that only works if there is a problem with the wiring in your column or you no longer have the correct resistor chipped key.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

With you saying you just installed a new starter and it wont turn over leads me to believe its a problem with the starter or wiring, not the vats.

icorsoln

I've been driving this car since 2001, has the right key with chip and switch... Three days ago I drove somewhere and turned off the car. I went to leave and turned the key over and the starter didn't even turn over to start the motor, so I had someone pull me to jump start the car since its a manual. It would not fire... I pulled it home and automaticlly figured it was my starter gone bad even tho it went bad 5 months ago and was replaced then. So I just installed the new starter and its getting power from the battery because I forgot to disconnect the battery and got a nice little shock. But anyways my starter was warrented so it was replaced for free. Thing is my key will no longer turn over the starter nor can I pull start it with the key on.

I have power everywhere when i turn on the key, fuel pump hisses, radio, lights, dash lights, the airbag light, brake light, and security light all comes on.

I figured it was VATS related. I dunno where to go from here. I replaced my injectors last year, shouldn't be related to them.

icorsoln

I'm really guessing its VATS related because 1: starter will not turn over with the key (VATS related) and its a good new starter and 2: the ECM won't fire the injectors when I try to pull start it in second gear with the key on and all power gas pump working which I read somewhere on here were both a result of VATS not working from reading this post someone said you could cut two wires and by7pass the vats system to get the car started and running.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

does the security light come on then go off when you turn the key?

icorsoln

The security light comes on and stays on when I turn the key, I've even waited to see if it would go off before I turned the key and it wouldn't. I haven't changed the key or switch since I've owned the car, and I'm sure its the original key/switch.

EDIT: Just put the key in Security on, turned key security light still on.
Removed key and put it back in no security light, turned key no security light.
removed key again security light back on, and stays on when turning key.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

If the security light stays on when turning the key, then it is a VATS issue. It could be the module has gone bad , or its not sensing you have the correct key inserted. Easiest thing to try would be the resistor bypass to see if its a problem in the column/key, or if its the actual VATS module. If its the VATS module, the only way to fix that is to replace it, or get a bypass module.

icorsoln

Ok, I'm in no doubt that you're correct; however, I've replaced just about everything on this car except this issue, and I'm kinda stupid when it comes to this VATS system. I checked my chip in the key and it says 04.71 ohms if that's even correct. I looked at the .vdf file posted back in this post and its not matching any of the listed key chips, but this is the key I've been using for years. Anyways, I know nothing of resistors or what I need for that or how to install them, so where can I get a VATS Mod or the bypass at orielys or autozone? All the links above are no longer vaild. I was hoping to just bypass the system because I don't need it for anything, but I guess its not that easy. From reading I know I have to match the key to the VATS mod but I have no clue where to find one at to buy, or even where its located on the car. LOL

Forgive me for asking so many questions, but you've been a great help.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

Hawks and summit and jegs sell the VATS bypass module, they run around $50.

you cant get it from a local parts store....

travis401

iTrader: (1)

some places list it as "passkeyII bypass"

travis401

iTrader: (1)

https://www.thirdgen.org/vats

icorsoln

I wanna thank you so much for the help, I'll see what I can do about getting it fixed.

ajbesherse

On my camaro i cant find a thick tan wire other than the one that runs to the ac and heat.

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Might be more productive if you start a new thread outlining your problem(s) given this one was started in 2006

ajbesherse

I brought a 91 camaro rs. Wont start changed starter and got a new key still nothing. I can bump it off from the starter if im dumping fule into the throttle body. When i turn the key the coil just clicks. What do i so

ez2cdave

bump

JMGates

edit for mispost.

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Start a new thread

.x0mb3

i know this was an old thread, but this was amazingly helpful. thank you all. totally worked for me!

josecd83

How's it going Lou my name is Jose and I have a 92 camaro rs. I have been trying to bypass vats system due to my security light staying on. Problem is I don't see a thick tan/white wire in my gear selector, just a thin tan/white wire which I beleive is for the e-brake. Any idea what other color wire I should look for???

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=41

jayfontes

Just did a v6 injected to a v8 350 carb. Also converted to a manual. Wired the starter but it doesnt cranm when i turn the key, but power to everything else does come on. Is the v.a.t.s still enabled even though the computer is not being used, and is this why the stater is not working. I would like to get the car to start with the switch instead of a push button so if this is the problem how do i bypass it. Any help would be appreciated.

ld91

The V.A.T.S. goes through the ignition switch. To bypass it, you can get a bypass module or what I did was find a good locksmith that can read the code. He will make a key with the right "chip." Or you can find a ignition switch from 83 or 84 Camaro or firebird and hook up an HEI. All of these have worked for me.

bladehand

I used to race an 89 and a 90 iroc SCCA SSGT class, at the track no SIR, VATS allowed, to remove the VATS we just installed the correct value resistor on the Key wires

bigal55

iTrader: (1)

Without the computer, you need to get the power through the starter enable relay. You could wire the starter enable relay to be activated by the ignition switch or just jump it out. There are many threads about how to do this. FYI, you will need to enable the fuel pump also, I would not depend solely on the oil pressure switch to power the pump. Activate the fuel pump from the ignition switch also. There are threads on this subject also. Search!

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Clear explanation how it works (post #2)....

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ml#post6016122


Clear explanation how to defeat it after removing the stock ECM (post #303)....

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ml#post5963351

Dirtyocm

I tried grounding the yellow and black wire and the car will now crank but wont start. If i pour gas into the tb it will start and then fire the injectors. Cld this maybe from a bad vats relay