Psycho_91Camaro

I just got done installing a new ignition lock cylinder, and tried turning it one with the new key which the locksmith made (the one with the chip). The previous owner already bypassed the VATS set up
(not my picture just using it as an example)

by not knowingly I cut that resister and used the original plug to wrap up the wires to the orange wire/plug from the cylinder lock, plugged them together and tried turning on the car.. and would not fire. Then after a few times it wold not even crank anymore I think it may have triggered the VATS system to not start the car for 3-5 minutes.

Anyways I messed up and took out the resistor that bypassed the vats ... I measured the OHMS from the old key and the new key and they both read 2K OHMS... what do I need to make this work??? please I need help!! I have tried the search option but only ended up with debates on VATS and nothing progressive...

Could someone explain to me step by step?? and what kinda resisters I will need in order to bypass VATS, again.. I threw away the old resisters..

Psycho_91Camaro

so could anyone help me, pleeeeease?

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

You can COMPLETELY bypass the VATS module by connecting two wires under the dash:

- the thick yellow coming from the column (start wire from the ignition cylinder)
- the thick tan/white wire coming from the gear selector (provided you have A/T)

That will still leave you with the A/T gear selector safety switch but will totally bypass VATS.

Hope this helps.
Lou

P.S.: You can AIM me if you have any questions.

Psycho_91Camaro

thanks you lou!!!!! I will send you a MESSEGE!! im talking to you right now!!! eeee im so excited!!!!! finally some real help on this cursed VATS problem!!

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

I drew a quick diagram for the two wires, yellow and tan/white.
See attached file.

Hope it helps.
Lou

Psycho_91Camaro

Alright Lou, me and you talked today about how I got my Camaro started. But now I am not getting any fuel to my engine and the security light comes on what has happend? My engine wont idle for long and die real fast.

Heres what it does:

I turn on the ignition, the car starts but it throws out fuel for a short while and then it stops throwing fuel out and then it stalls?? And the security light comes on! WHAT ELSE CAN I DO??? PLEASE HELP ME

Psycho_91Camaro

The car also has a newly DISCOVERED alarm and a remote starter, both are not working could they be interfearing with the way the vehicle starts?? if so how could I go about removing this???

Psycho_91Camaro

Actually when I plugged in a fuse into the little fuse slip.. the alarm turned on.... but I know the remote starter doesnt turn on

Psycho_91Camaro

Alright here is the pictures!! In order

Psycho_91Camaro

Security Light comes on but you can;t see in the picture due to the flash

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

Look at this page, it lists all the resistor values that GM used in our vehicles. Which one is the one you measured? 2K is a very vague value. You might have either the 1870-ohm or 2370-ohm resistor.

If you're putting a replacement resistor in the car, it needs to match pretty closely. A 2K RadioShack resistor won't do.

Try me on AIM again, bud.

Lou

deadtemple

If you cut the resistor out, what did you do with it?
I guess the car was not starting before this?
What was the car doing? Trying to start or nothing at all?

Need some more info on what led up to you getting a new cylinder for the car. I am going through the vats thing right now. Luckilly a fellow member is sending me something to fix my problem. Tell us more about your situation.

Firebird90

iTrader: (1)

FYI:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1389952

Psycho_91Camaro

Heres a picture of what appears to the remote starter system


I removed the wire from the VATS BYPASS wire connection (GEAR SELECTOR GREEN WIRE-YELLOW STEERING COLUMN WIRE) I tried to start it and still nothing


Heres a closer look (NOTICE:THE TOP GREENWIRE IS CONNECTED TO THE STEERING COLUMN YELLOW WIRE,I JUST USED A REPLACEMENT WIRE TO MAKE IT LONGER TO REACH THE GEAR SELECTOR GREEN WIRE)


Purple wire connects to the ignition coil plugs that I think leads to the remote starter module



The red wire hanging freely in the corner is for the electric fan (yes it has been rigged to turn on when the car is on and is connected straight to the fuse box)


Lou, I tried installing it parallel exactly how you said on the VATS wire but it did not turn on....


Heres a closer look

Psycho_91Camaro

Heres where the black wire leads that used to be connected to the yellow wire coming from the steering column,the same yellow wire that is now connected to the gear selector green wire.


Vats Plug cut... found this under the dash..

Psycho_91Camaro

I still have the original resistors. And that is correct, the car was not starting after I installed the ignition lock cylinder. I replaced the ignition coil which was the initial problem. Reason for replacing the ignition cylinder was because the ignition cylinder did not stay on the on position the guages and lights on the cluster were not staying on and it was on the ON position, keep in mind VATS was bypassed during this time after we got the car on TDC and new igniton coil replaced and timed correclty, after the first start up it would not stay on. I then replaced the ignition cylinder and prayed that the car would turn on and it DID NOT. I then cut the VATS RESISTORS UNINFORMED and UNEDUCATED on what purpose (I just thought it was a mickey mouse job like the rest of the stuff on the car, such as the electric fan wired straight to the battery and fuse box) after I cut them I connected the plug and connected the orange wire from the ignition lock cylinder to the vats wire EXACTLY LIKE THIS(Both the old key and the new key read 1K OHMS on my analog resistor)

After I turned it on the car would not start...... and then after a few tries it did not EVEN TURN OVER!! NOTHING WORKED.... it only lit up the cluster guages with the SES light on... but its always been on, ever since I bought the car. I then was stumped and removed the battery and connected it back again after 1 day of being disconnected and it did not turn over or crank. I then contacted Louz28 and he helped me get her started again, by bypassing VATS again he told me to connect the GREEN gear selector to the YELLOW wire from the steering column.. I did it, and it worked joyfully I thanked him and got a bit ahead of myself and thought to myself "oh yeah the car starts" in reality the car didnt fully idle and stay on for long, me and a friend checked the timing while I was in the car flooring it to keep it on, as he was standing by the engine bay he observed that everytime I stepped on the gas it only spit out a bit of gas and would stop spitting gas and after a few seconds the injectors would stop spitting gas and got a security light. I then talked with Lou and he told me it's a resister reading the wrong resistence so we talked and he led me and educated me on how they work and set up, I then but the resistors he told me on the vats wires and I tried turning on the car.. and found out the battery was dead :-/ so I recharged it and started her up and she did not fire up only turned over, and now here I am.
Lou, and everyone else here are the orignal resistors that the previous owner used to BYPASS vats! NO HE DID NOT SOLDER them I did it but failed but you all can see the color bands clearly.. they were both twisted with each other, before I broke them.

deadtemple

It sounds like your remote starter is hooked up and working. What that does is let the vats be bypased for a short time until the correcct key is installed in the ign. Then the port injectors shut off and wont fire any fuel into the intake. What the green and yellow wires did, was bypass your starter relay switch. If the car was running before all this with those two resistors hooked up. What I would do is take them to radioshack and get the same exact resistors and hook them up the same way it was before all this.

If yoou dont want to do that. Then you have to pull the ECM and install a new chip that will delete the vats from the system.They do sell a bypass for the vats system to get the uel to fire, sold by Baker Electronics. I have one but I cant get mine to work with the bypasss module. (must be me)

Motorage - Home Page Car Alarms, remote car starters & keyless entry

83z28camaro

Do you have the remote for the remote starter or plan on using it? If not I would start by removing the entire system and wiring the car back to stock. Removing all of the non factory wiring. And then try diagniosing the problems. Mike

Psycho_91Camaro

the thing is that me and Lou, tried measuring the OHMS and his expertise on resistors helped me find the correct resistors that matched those 2 blue ones, I put them parallel to each other and they did not work.
----------

why would the remote starter actually work?

deadtemple

I would do as 83z said and remaove all non factory wireing and set it back to stock. Then go from there. The thing that I am wondering is, did you use a multi meter to find out the ohms on those two resistors? If not I would try using one of them instead of using the color codes. I had my wife decifer the color coding and when hooked up to a multimeter the readings are off a little bit from what she says. Dont trust what you see, trust what you know!

Here are the ohm values that GM used. There is a variance, but you need to get it as close as possible. I myslf have tried this, but I could not get my bird to work hooking up resistors. Good luck.


I just went back and looked at your ppics and you can not put the resistors next together like that, they have to be in a circuit.
_ _ _ not =

Key# Value (Ohms)
1 = 392
2 = 523
3 = 681
4 = 887
5 = 1130
6 = 1470
7 = 1870
8 = 2370
9 = 3010
10 = 3740
11 = 4750
12 = 6040
13 = 7500
14 = 9530 15 = 11800

Psycho_91Camaro

What do you mean in a circuit?

I soldered the original resistors and it did not work!!!

83z28camaro

I don't like to leave aftermarket stuff in my car if i won't be using it. So I was suggesting to get rid of the remote start and return the car to stock. So all the tests would have good results. Are the two new resistors in one of the pics the same value as the old ones. If so you will have to wire them in series not parallel . In parallel the resistors would only have the resistence of the lower value one.

Psycho_91Camaro

How would I get rid of the remote starter and the alarm?? just start clipping thier wires?

83z28camaro

most of them will be spliced off of other factory wires. Depending on how they were attached you may be able to unplug, untwist them, cut them off or desolder them. Then reconnect any wires that may be cut apart.

IceManRS305

iTrader: (-1)

dont mean to barge in and get off topic but will a manual car work with the proccess stated above with the wire splicing? thanks... g/l to ya psycho, wiring can be a biatch but these guys on here know their stuff...

badjuju342

Little more to it than that , and ditch the electrical tape!The yellow clip on connectors they used are garbage and will cause a ton of headaches. Buy some solder & heat shrink. Carefully trace each wire and remove it at it's source.

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

The original resistors were 665 and 249 Ohms (wired in series), which gives us 913 Ohms total. So it's the key #4, 887 Ohms that we need.
I suggested to find a 1.2Kohm and 3.3Kohm resistors and wire them in parallel. That gives us 880ohms. Even closer to the GM value. But it doesn't work. And the original resistors won't work now either.

And since the car won't even try to fire, my suspicion is that it's not the VATS that's the cause. I am afraid that the remote start wiring is messed up and cutting off injectors. Cuz that's what causes the no-start condition, as we already checked (it fires with starting fluid down the TB and if you ground the injectors, they spray).

I suggested to Christian to check the ECM pin B6 (dark blue) on the C1 connector to see if VATS is sending any signal to the ECM. That way, we can rule out VATS (and consider the resistors correct) and focus on other possible causes, like the alarm wiring.

Any electrical guys in California? It would be nice if another TGO member could help Christian out. I've been trying over AIM but there is only so much I can do through typing.

C'mon guys, there's gotta be somebody in LA who knows wiring! Please!

Lou

Psycho_91Camaro

Alright, I bought a digital OHM meter, but how exactly do I use this!? just set it to 10 MEGohm input =
DCV

?

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

Set it to the omega symbol (white symbol on the right side - between the blue and green fields).

Measure the original resistors and the new resistors. THey should be close to each other, above 800 Ohm.

Did you measure the analog voltage signal on the VATS ECM input, pin B6?

Lou

Psycho_91Camaro

well after all the tests we did, we cant figure out whats wrong with it... so im just going to have to pay a shop $75.00 dollars an hour to have it done

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

Is there nobody in the LA area who is willing to help out?
I've been trying to troubleshoot this with Christian for several days now, working over the internet. Aren't there any willing electrical guys in CA? I'd hate to see another TGO member be forced to go to a shop. I'd sure help him in person if I was any closer. Or is it only a Texas thing? I know they call us "The Friendly State". I hope we're not the only friendly state.

Come on, somebody help this guy out! Please?

Lou

Psycho_91Camaro

Thanks, Lou

For all your help I could not of gone this far with out your knowledge and guidance. Tomorrow I will start unplugging and unclipping and clipping aftermarket crap out under the dash, heck I have nothing to loose now, if this fails then I will let a shop rape me out of my money.

ringo234

For some reason my car wouldn't recognize my key consistently, so I measured it's resistance at 1468 ohms, and got a 1K and a 470 ohms resistors and wired them in series to match my key to within a couple of ohms. I soldered it in. Now I can start my car with the key I had without the chip. Thanks to this thread.

Psycho_91Camaro

Im glad this helped someone, but my Camaro is still not running. I removed all the aftermarket crap and tried turning on the car and still not fire-ing up, just keeps turning over. Im sure now its the VATS now before I take it to some auto electrician whos going to rape me out of my money which I dont have, I need someone to remove the VATS out of my ECM I have it out, just need to mail it to someone here who can do this for me.
Thanks
Christian

Psycho_91Camaro

Heres what I did, I removed all the aftermarket crap such as the remote starter and alarm I HAVE NOTHING TO LOOSE! DIE GREMLINS!!!!!!!!
Under my Car had to use the fish tank light to see those god forsaken gremlins!


Heres it is after I removed all the vats crap... yes im wearing all black and yes those chucks are all worn out... hey im a Rocker, what do you expect when your a broke psychobilly?


It was getting hot in the garage so I took off my Japanese Psychobilly shirt...





Pics of underneath after I removed the remote starter and alarm



What is this? and what does it do? the alarm was connected to it


Dead Gremlins


Yes thats my dropped ECU.. in need of a removal from pesky VATS

83z28camaro

What Ecm number and Bcc do you have? PM me about the chip. Mike

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

Hahahahahaha, dude, that gremlin picture is awesome!

Lou

Psycho_91Camaro

Alright Mike, Took some pics for ya hopefully this will help out.

Psycho_91Camaro

Thank you, 83z28camaro

I recieved the chip today, installed it, put everything back the way it's suppose to be. Fired her up and she just turned over.... did it again and SHE FIRED UP AND STAYED ON!!!!!!!!! YEEEEAAAAAHHH.... drove her out of the garage... and went around for a spin, noticed the Idle was low. I then turned the car off and noticed a small dieseling after I removed the key. I thought it was the timing so I took it to my friends house (trainwreck) got it timed. Drove her home.... and as I was driving I floored it real quick and noticed a big loss of response and power. I took her home and I tried checking for vaccum leaks and other loose or disconnected things, even messed with the IDLE AIR CONTROL VALVE to see if it would make a difference and drove it and still the same. And sometimes I have to keep cranking the engine a few times for it to turn on, I dont know if the computer has to have some time to learn all its functions or what? it still diesels a little bit when I turn off the ignition.... Im stumped... where else can I look or do?

305tbier

these addresses may have been posted already re: VATS, but...

www.vats.likeabigdog.com

GM Vats System Bypass

i had mine bypassed-now I know why the car starts in gear.....

Psycho_91Camaro

oops,forgot to metnion that when I installed the new chip, It had VATS removed....

badjuju342

There's a trick to setting your timing . You cannot just loosen the distributor hold down clamp and set it . There's a black plug with a tan wire on the right side of the firewall above the blower motor . Unplug that first , then set your timing . Plug it back up afterwards and you're good to go.

Psycho_91Camaro

hahah, bigbabylou pointed that out to me today... thanks do I unplug it before I turn on the car? or while its on?

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

If you bypass it correctly, the car will NOT start in gear. If it does, it's not done right and poses hazard to you and anybody around you. I'd strongly recommend fixing it.

Just my
Lou

83z28camaro

You can do it either way. Also it will set a code in the computer so you will need to disconnect the battery for a minute after reconnecting the wire and shutting the car off. Good to here it is running again. Mike

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

Mike, are you the one who sent Chris the new VATS-delete chip?
Way to go, man! You're a great guy! :clap:

Lou

83z28camaro

Yes that was me. Got to do something with this chip burner or it might get lost. Mike

Psycho_91Camaro

I did it this way, and after I disconnected the battery I left it disconnected for about 3 mins and reconnected it, the car would not start just keep turning. Then my friend somehow played with the key in the ignition switch and got it to turn on. The car ran waaay better, now my only problem is that MOST of the time I have to crank it twice or more to get it to start, what could this be? should I give it some time for the computer to fully learn everything?

Psycho_91Camaro

th car runs now! thanks mike and Lou

92centexcamaro

To bypass VATS do you need to just connect that yellow wire with the gear selector switch wire or do you have to do something with resistors also??? I need to get VATS bypassed quick due to my car being stuck at a shop with a new motor in it and it wont crank. EWWWW! Details please.