92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

i didint get the3 car to fire, my dad told me he did, but now i think he is full of crap. i changed the rotor when i ot home today, and just got done changing out the module, i still dont have any spark. i dont understnd what else could it be?

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

What do you ground the spark plug on when testing for spark?
Do you use vise-grips to hold it to a metal line/bracket or do you hold it by hand in a glove or another way?
Are you positive that the plug you're using is good?

Just trying to ask the obvious questions to make sure nothing is omitted.

Lou

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

i feel really stupid right now, and i think this is silly lol. uhm, i wasnt taking the plug out of the car, i was just takinf the wire off and looking in there, is that what i ak supposed to do? or am i supposed to take the whole plug out? i feel like an idiot, but hey, at oleast im learning.

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

You can take a spare spark plug and stick it in a spark plug wire and then put the plug on the block (or another good ground). Then when you try to crank, watch for spark between the two electrodes.

WARNING (since you say you're learning how to work on cars) - the spark is created by high voltage so wear some thick gloves or use let's say vise-grips to ground the plug. You do NOT want to get shocked. It's not deadly but it sure hurts.

Do you have a local friend who can help you troubleshoot this? It's always easier to learn by WATCHING somebody do it than by reading it on them internetz.

Lou

89RsPower!

you may want to consider taking it to somebody..

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

ive worked on cars before, lol. i can do this. i am a quick learner, just made a meat head mistake lol. iv4e just never reqally worked so much on electrical as say, porting heads, or teardown and rebuild of a block. besides, if someone else can do it, that means i can, and i wont learn without trying. ill use something to hold the plug when i check it. its pouring rain outside right now tho so i cant.

86TpiTransAm

Man, this post was like reading a really good story that abruptly ended right smack in the middle.

Did you get the car running or not? I'm still waiting to hear the ending of the story and what was causing it to not start....

wolfspirit187

ok 92WhiteZ28 i have an idea for you go to an autozone and try to borrow an injector pulse tester (noide light tester)or what ever part store you got that goes loan-a-tool service what it does is test to see if you are getting single from the computer to the injectors this can cause a no start but crank mode and on the part you showed on your picture that looks like the connectors for a dis for 305/350 it also reads from the comp to see if there is injector pulse so it will fire correctly try this after you fix you distruptor(i can't spell with heck )problem this happened on my but mine i got the checkers auto cheap rotor part and it flew apart at 4500 rpms

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

car is still NOT RUNNING, me and another TGO member (Birdtojag) took the entire wiring harness out and repaired the hacking that was done to it. Ive started putting it all back together, got it prolly 50% installed. looking at the wire diagram and finding the connectors is like a jigsaw puzzle to me. Also, i bought an 89 GTA and did some work on that, so ive been slightly distracted. The GTA Runs GREAT tho!!!! i will update as soon as wiring harness install is complete.

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

ok, so i have been working on the iroc all day long. i got the wire harness in completly, and did AC delete because i was just irritated at the lack of room. the car still has the crank but no start issue. the fuel pump is NOT priming in the on position *UNLESS* i use a jump wire on the oil pressure sensor connector. i didnt check for spark, because i had spark when i took everything apart, i am sure it is a lack of fuel issue, i just dont know where to go from here.

stevo the torpe

the car wouldnt start without a rotor button!thats why u aint getting fire.do not take ur 92 dizzy out and put into that 87 u will have the timing out of wak

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

thanks for the info steve, but we have checked off the disty as a problem, i replaced the cap rotor and ign module, the disty is good.

igotta355z28

iTrader: (1)

ok just letting you know cranks but doesnt turnover doesnt make sense, cranking is turning over, what you mean is cranks but doesnt fire, or cranks but doesnt start....just say it like that incase you talk to a real mechanic about your problem....

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

Hey A$$hole, i didnt asked for you f+cked Up sarcastic input, if you dont have something that is going to lead me to a solution, get lost. i dont need nor do i want to talk to anyone whom goes around calling themselves "A real Mechanic" i find ppl that label themselves like that to be big headed, and most times they dont know what they are talking about, if i walk up to a mechanic and say "my car is cranking, but not turning over" and he gets confused, ill go somewhere else, anyone lacking that much common sence deserves to be shot. A$$hole.

igotta355z28

iTrader: (1)

wow....hmm somoene has pent up agression...i wasnt being sarcastic im sorry if it came off that way, i was sincerely telling you that incase you went to a mechanic he wouldnt think you were an idiot...never once did i call myself a real mechanic... read better man. figured you wouldnt want to look dumb but whatever.... ill just take the fact that your car isnt running right to be the reason why you angry and wont hold it against u....

89RsPower!

anyway back to the problem.. so I know this sounds really obvious but what you tried starting and running it on starting fluid? Since you say you have spark and no fuel it should run just fine on starting fluid.. have you hooked up a fuel pressure gauge yet? If so what kind of readings are you getting with key off? How about while cranking?

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

it will run on starting fluid. fuel pressure gauge was kinda whacky when i hooked it up, got different readings. I did come across something yesterday tho, i jhave power to all injectors, but i have power to BOTH sides of every injector. what would cause this problem? i know i am only supposed to have power to one side of the injector and not both, any ideas?

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

That's expected.
The injectors are under 12V power (pink/black wire) with the key on and the black wire on other side of the injector is intermittently grounded by the ECM to inject fuel at the desired rate.

If you ground one of the black wires, all 8 injectors should squirt. Try cranking then. If it still doesn't fire up, you might have bad/stale fuel.

If it does fire up (and dies), then the ECM is not actuating the injectors.

The ECM needs some basic inputs to run the injector, one of them is the tach signal (make sure it's connected properly) and the other one is the VATS input. VATS is our "anti-theft" system and disables fuel injection if the correct key isn't in the ignition (or if the wiring is bad/broken).

Hope this helps.
Lou

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

ok, heres the thing, 87 cars didnt have vats so thats not the issue. HOWEVER!!!, my tach is stuck at 7K RPMS, key on or off, its at 7K, does this have anything to do with my problem? i will try grounding the injectors to fire tommorow. PS, my injector wires are black/light green.

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

All the gauges are indicators, they won't affect the engine running, don't worry.

Lou

tanker

i just read on one of the sticky posts that gm started in 86 with the vats key on some models of corvettes and such.. it is very possible that u a non vats ignition in a vats car

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

some vettes did have vats in 86 and 87, but it wasnt widly used in gm cars until 88, im fairly sure that the car did not ave vats, and if it did i cant find the wires for it. I had the old steering column for a while until my dad threw it out, and i couldnt find the vats wire on there either. the person i bought the car from has dissapeared from the face of the earth. I have done a few more things trying to get the car figured out. I replaced the ECC, to no avail. And i have started to take apart the interior harness, i am fairly sure i will find my problem under the dash somewhere. Because the person i bought it from replaced the steering column i have a strong feeling that this is where my problem lies. The cool thing about that is i get to put the engine bay back together, and clean it up a bit. any one have any suggestion as to what could be bad under the dash to cause crank but no start? and again any help is appreciated.

Siggy

This sounds like a wiring fault or swapped wires, the EST module should switch the 12vdc to the coil providing the coil trigger. Sounds like you have 12vdc steady..ie: no pulse. This would...I think cause the tach to peg over and of course no spark. Check the wiring between the coil and the EST module.

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

actually siggy, i have spark but am not getting fuel. For some reason i bekleive the injectors are not firing.

Siggy

Sounds bad...know anyone with a Scope to check injector pulse?
Not sure if it would work...if you rig a 12v bulb to the 12v side of the injector coil and ground you should be able to see it lite.

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

im working on renting a noide light set. I have power to the injectors, but for one reason or another the car isnt getting fuel, it will run on starter fluid, but thats it.

Siggy

Looking at previous threads..no vats and it would not crank if transmission circuit was bad...must be either no fuel or no pulse to injectors. Sounds like fun, to be bad I'm not down the block to join the fun. Best luck...hope you win.

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

ok, i know there is zero wiring issues in the engine bay, i have gone over and over it with a fellow member, and we know everything is hooked up correctly, and all of the connectors are good. (except one but its for A/C so who cares)

I went out there today and dropped the steering column, which to my suprise there was a brand new ignition switch in it. I dont really know my way around the under the Dast wires, so i have some pictures of stuff that wasnt connected Ect ect...


here they are.

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

so in the first picture, what are the white/orange wires at the very top (barely hanging down) are these vats wires? i dont think they are, well i hope they arnt anyways. the other two pictures, what are these connectors?

here are some more pictures of the wiring.

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

The very first picture is very disturbing, the bare yellow wire is not safe. I believe it's the starter wire. Be sure to connect it well (solder is the best) and insulate it with some heatshrink.
Second and third pictures, not sure what I'm looking at. I don't recall these connectors at all. Probably T/A specific (I am better with Camaros).
4th picture - g*d knows what the previous owner did with this wire. No telling where it goes unless you lift the carpet and follow it.

The rest and any other orange wires, don't worry about them.
The VATS wires would be very thin and white and would be in an orange sleeve. So it would be distinguishable.

Hope this helps a bit.
Lou

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

already took car of the yellow wire. I almost pissed my pants when i saw it like that. also, this is a CAMARO, its my 87 IROC Z lol. my T/A runs great.

midwest

Tada you found a clue to your no start. Diagnose this problem, it will lead you to your main concern.

Does your check engine light light up when you go from off to run?

Heres everything you need to know to diagnose the fuel pump problem.
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41893700.gif

tanker

if u turn the key forward to on position...not cranking is there a security light on ?if it has vats there will be an orange or a black wire coming from the ignition.. stock is orange after market ignition is black under the orange outside are two wires..if u have checked all those things and still injectors are not firing it must be a vats issue. which is very likely seeing how it has a new ignition... i just had this problem with my car and it works now.. i had lost the keys and installed a new ignition... i have a list of the 15 different ohms that gm used for the thirdgen cars i can email them to you and explain how to do..it is actually quite simple. it will take u maybe a couple of hours but if it works its well worth it, seeing how u tried almost everything else

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

i apprciatye your help, but it is not a vats issue. It is a NON vats car, with a NON vats column.
----------

tyvm for those diagrams. i will be studying them and lookign for my problem.

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

man, diagrams are hard.... lol

midwest

Which part is giving you trouble.

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

mostly just identifying the parts. Im having my friend come over (birdtojag) he is a member of the forums and has been busting his *** trying to help me get this thing running. Me and a shop here have some big plans for this thing, but i need to get it running before they will start fabbing stuff for it. lets just say it will be a forum favorite wen its all finished up, gotta get it some fuel tho! i will be working on it tommorow to try and figure it out, probably going to pull the fuel tank and check the pump out.

89RsPower!

Pull the tank and check the pump? I thought you had pressure but no injector pulse?

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

i do have pressure, i just dont know if its enough. i will only pull the tank if its the last thing i can do to figure it out. Im running out of wires to fix. when i check the FP it changes each time, and like the highest its been is 30 ish.

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

ok, fixed the priming issue. used the wire diagrams and traced it back to a loose wire that was being pushed down in the connector when the relay was being pushed in. Still no start, but getting there.

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

alrighty, so here is where i am at as of 4/28 -end of day.

Car has spark.
Igniton switch is good.
Fuel pump primes.
Crank but No Start.

i will be checking FP again tommorow if i can get the gauge from chris. Also, if i get the check in the mail i have been expecting then i will be getting the noide light set, along with going and getting some new relays/connectors. I did disconnect the fuel in line (right by windshield washer reseroir) and when the pump is on fuel is coming through, but not like gushing through. Im thinking that im just not making enough pressure. chris has been telling me its an electrical problem since day one, but i think when it comes down to it im just going to have to replace the fuel pump. I found a fuel pump box in the back of the car, so i kinda figured it had a new pump in it, however it was not a brand that i recognized, and i could not find a part number.

again, i appreciate evryones help, and look forward to getting this car on the road. I feel like its really close. Hopefully, i can get it running tommorow, i have the whole day set to work on it.

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

worked on the car all day today with a friend of mine, we took the whole interior harness out of the car along with the dash, gauges, ect. We repaired any damaged wires on the harness and then put it all back in, the car is still cranking but not turning over, i am picking up a noid light set and a new fuel pump tommorow after work.

89RsPower!

If the highest pressure reading you're getting is 30 psi you defently have a problem with the pump or regulator, although it should start with 30 psi..

stroked_n_blown

iTrader: (3)

My 92 RS with 305 TBI is doing the same thing; Fuel pump comes on, all fuses are good, and engine turns over but doesn't fire. If we spray carb cleaner into the TBI it fires then dies once the fluid gets used up. I have absolutely no gas coming through the injectors. Went to Auto Zone to get a new fuel filter, and the salesperson told me to replace my distributor completely (she had the same problem on her car) Reading this thread it sounds like it might be the right option, but I wanted to make sure before I plopped down for a dew distributor.

89RsPower!

Just to make this statement factual, it needs to be rephrased to say ALL vettes starting with the 1986 model year came standard with vats.

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

sorry im not a vette specialist, this si a camaro/firebird board lol. my point was the iroc didnt have vats.

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

ok, replaced the fuel pump with a Walbro 255 LPH HO pump and got a feul pressure gauge, the pump constantly primes, it dosnt shut off. And im only making 20-30 PSI, any ideas? me and all my buddies are pretty stumped.

NEW FUEL PUMP (WALBRO 255 LPH)
NEW FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR
NEW FUEL FILTER