ok, i posted a thread b4 about how my 91 rs wont crank. no turn over or anything. at all. no clicks. nothing, well research lead me to baker electronics vats bypass module.. well, ive connected it to what i think is every blue wire i saw with the others hookd up aswell, and still got nothing different. im sick of it, im almost rdy to stick it out in the yard and hope it dissappears.

i need to know any possible way to make this thing crank. i know its something simple, and at this point idk anything that will help. im not getting fuel, the starter is fine, and when the key is turned, NOTHING happens. lights come on, but no vroom. i know its simple, but im strapped on time and just need the easiest way to fix this. paleaaaaase help me. ill get it all straight when i swap everything later. but right now it needs to ride.

 

ok fellas, please pull together for me now. i need helpful thoughts.

 

Sounds like a VATS issue, either you have the box hooked up wrong, its bad, or VATS isnt the issue.

Get your hands on a voltmeter/ohm meter, measure the resistance value of the "chip" in your key, go to radioshack and get an appropriate sized resistor, stick in the plug for VATS under the steering column, and turn the key.

If it starts your VATS module is bad and your bypass box isnt doing anything. If that doesnt fix it, its something else like a bad ECM or something.

The box should be wired to a switch 12v source, a ground, and the 3rd wire goes to the VATS enable wire on the ECM. It should be a dark blue wire on the ECM connector. It will be on the bottom half of the white plug, 3rd slot from the right.

 

i understand the hookin up thing. and im pretty sure its a vats issue, im sick sick sick of messin with it, can someone tell me how to put the fuel pump on a switch, and whatever the other switch is supposed to go to and exactly where the button goes for push button i have seen many many threads but i cant really get my conclusion from them.

 

If its a VATS issue, putting the things on a switch wont help anything. You can always have your computer tuned to remove the VATS, but the resistor bypass is by far the easiest way. Do you have access to a voltmeter/ohmmeter?

 

i have one of the things where u ground it, touch it to the wire, and it lights up.

 

I have no idea what youre talking about there

 

The way the VATS works is, your key has a small "chip" in it. That chip is a carbon pellet resistor. When you insert the key in the column, it completes an electrical circuit with the VATS module. The VATS module then determines if the correct key is inserted in the column by measuring the resistance of the "chip" in the key. If it reads the correct resistance, it grounds the start enable relay, allowing it to function and send voltage to the starter when the key is turned. It also send an "enable" signal to the ECM to allow the injectors to fire and the distributor to fire the spark plugs.

Grounding the start enable relay will allow the starter to function, but without that enable signal to the ECM, youre not gonna get spark or fuel. You fuel pump relay is turning on fine right now, but the ECM isnt sending the injector pulse to the injectors. Adding a switch the fuel pump relay wont give the injectors the pulse signal they need.

Also since the spark is computer controlled, it wont send voltage to the coil without that enable signal either. You can put on an HEI distributor, but that will just cause more problems.

The only way to get your car to run is to replace the VATS module with a good one (if its whats malfunctioning), getting your bypass box to work (it just could be a bad box), or switching to a carb setup to completely ditch the computer.

If the VATS module isnt malfunctioning and its just the contacts in the key cylinder that have worn out (which isnt uncommon) then the resistor bypass will solve your problems.

 

ok, i planned on going carb real soon anyway, can you walk me down that route. im tired of it. i wanna drive this bastard

 

i know ill need an intake, a carb, and a distributor, but what about all the wiring and vaccum junk. and the switch. what do i do there.

 

To Switch to a carb setup, youre gonna need a new intake, carb, HEI distributor, and appropriate gaskets. Yoll have to either have to live with a bunch of unplugged connectors under the hood, highly modify your stock harness, or build a new one from scratch. Youll also have to either change out your fuel pump to a mechanical pump/out of tank electric pump with an in tank carb pickup, or run the stock fuel pump with a return style regulator. Depending on the intake and carb, you might need a drop base air cleaner, or taller hood. If you have an auto trans, youll have to rig something up for your torque converter lockup, and possibly a TV cable geometry corrector. Im pretty sure you have to modify the cruise control if you want to keep it. Your stock gauges will still work, but youll have to do some work to get the speedo to work. And youll still have to ground the start enable relay. I think thats about it.

The biggest thing is, swapping to a carb set up is illegal. Federal emissions regulations and such. With that being said if you have emissions testing/visual inspections, youre gonna be in for a world of headaches on that. Youll either have to find someone willing to risk loose their inspectors license and jail time to pass it, or never drive it on the street. Also, if you dont know how to tune a carb, youll never get the best performance possible.

 

Youll have to get creative with the vacuum stuff. Most carbs have 3 vacuum ports, one timed vacuum for the dist, one PVC vacuum port, and one for the brake booster. Youll need to figure out how to splice in lines for the AC, the charcoal canister, and the cruise control if you keep it. Youll also need to either ground the fan switch so the fan runs when the key is on, get a separate fan control module, or leave the computer hooked up to get the fan to work.

 

:/ illegal. gayness. i guess my best bet is to fix this piece o sh*t. idk what to do now. im so lost. it started, and i drove it homw. then found the fan relay was cut, so i un hooked them, and spliced them back together, went to start it and nothing. with this experience, i can almost positivly say ill never own another camaro.

 

i just dont understand where to put the resistors. or how exactly to test my key. i saw pictures in other threads that looked like they took the resistor, and put it into the connector thats on the yellow covered wires. (to thin wires with a yellow casing that run down the steering column into a weird connector) is that where the resistor goes??

 

To test the key, you take a ohmmeter and put one lead on each side of the "chip". it should give you the value of the resistor. Once you get the right resistor, you drop the lower dash cover and find the VATS wires. Its a 2 prong connector, the wire colors are black and white if I remember, but the ones comming from the column should be in either a yellow or orange sleeve. Youd unplug the connector from the steering column, and put the resistor so it loops the wires comming from the passenger side.

 

what about the relay in the drivers side kick panel, i have read in 2 other threads that ppl have done things with that relay and bypassed the vats. is that possible? one said to ground it, the other said to connect one of the yellow wires to the green wire, would that bypass the vats, or just make the starter turn over

 

But like I said, that only works if your VATS module is still functional. If the VATS module when out then youd have to replace it. If it stopped workin after you spliced the fan relay back, maybe that did something. Have you tried putting it back the way it was and see what happens?

 

i think i understand what your saying! mine is yellow. idk if the wires were black and white though... i think they were tan and white.... idr id have to look, but your saying figure out my resistance, and disconnect them, and put the resistor in the side that does NOt go up the column.. correct?

 

all they did was cut/spllice into the wires, and run the wires to a switch. it was rigged. and i just took that switch off.

 

Thats right,

 

ok, imma try that tomorrwo i hope.. does the vats system just suddenly go bad?

 

As for the start enable relay, if your resistor bypass works, you wont have to do anything with it. If you got rid of the computer, youd have to ground the black wire of it to the body.

 

i dont recall seeing a black wire.. maybe the black/yellow wire? but not just black..

 

the enable relay cant really be bypassed if imma keep it tbi though.. if im understanding you correctly.

 

Sometimes they do. If yours turns out to be bad, Ive still got my working one, but I dont remember the value of the resistor I used when I bypassed it. Luckily theres only 15 resistor values youd have to test to figure out which one it is . Theres even places that sell all 15 resistors in a single pack. I dont have the key with the "chip" any more either (whole reason I bypassed the VATS to begin with).

 

Its the black/yellow wire, and you can ground it without any issues. VATS just grounds the relay when it gets the right key. The car will crank without the right resistance value if you do, but the computer still wont get the "enable signal" until the VATS module gets the right resistance, so it still wont run.

 

haha lose some keys? :P well... imma try the resistor trick asap. i hope it works if it doesnt... idk what to do. what would be the easiest thing if that didnt work.

 

ok ok, so if the resistor trick doesnt work by itself, i could ground the blck/yellow wire and that should work??


also, to test the resistance of my key, i just touch the volt meter to each side of the pellet?

 

If the resistor trick doesnt work, and you manually ground the start enabe relay, the car will crank, but wont start.

 

I am having the same problem with my 89 RS
I just did the resistor test on my key and i got 1466 ohms
si i got resistors totaling 1470 ohms and i just did the resistor trick thing
on my 89 RS i have an orange wire casing around 2 white wires, i removed the orange casing to expose the 2 white wires, i cut both white wires and stripped off part of the white wire casings and added my resistors in series configuration, linking one white wire to the other through my resistors

did i do this correctly?

 

Depends, if you did it to the side were the wires go up into the steering column, then no. If you did it to the side of the wires that run over to the passenger side then yes.

You have key blank #6 out of 15. Its a 1,470 ohm resistor, but the system is designed with a variance since resistors arent exact. Youd be ok with a resistance value between 1,411 ohms and 1,549 ohms, so you got the value correct.

 

You can see in the pics, the orange sleeve with the wires in it coming from the column (mine are snipped). In the second pic you can see where those wires plug into the wires that run over to the VATS module. Mine are purple and white. Those are the wires you want to loop with the resistors.

 

ok so the orange casing for mine is coming from the steering column
and it leeds to a 2 wire connector with the 2 white wires
BUT
the connector leads to i beleive more wires then through the firewall to the engine cavity and THAT group of wires heads over to the lower passenger side

I hooked my resistors to the side heading through the firewall to the lower passenger side

the orange wire heading to my steering column I snipped

i would show pics but dont know how to attach them???

 

Sounds like you got it right.

 

how do u post pics? i wanna be sure

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/faq....b3_attachments

 

 

Thats how its done.

 

Personally, I would have soldered the resistors directly to the wires on the plug instead of having all those bulky connectors and such. On the bright side, if you ever plan on leaving the car sitting for a while and want some piece of mind, you can always unplug the resistors and take them with you.

 

i would've soldered them but i wanted to make sure i did it right before i mader anything permananet and i also dont have a solder tool

 

You can get a good small butane torch at radioshack for maybe $15.

 

are u sayin just melt the ends together?
and that'll work permanently and reliably?

 

You can use the torch to solder it together. I use a torch when soldering in the car since most of the time Im not anywhere near a plug for an electrical soldering gun.

 

oh ok cool ill pick one of those up =)

 

It still doesn't wanna start what do i do now?
bypass didn't work, it was running on monday, i parked it in my driveway and it hasn't started since
i was having the starting problem before but only SOME of the times it wouldn't start like every 1 in 20
then i took it to a shop to fix the front steering knuckles cuz i hit a rutt (long pothole) while driving on a dirt road at about 20mph
thinking maybe bottomed and hit my starter? not sure bout that tho cuz it was starting still sometimes until monday after i parked it in my driveway
starter? starter soleniod? maybe the security module? relay??

any tips or help would be greatly appreciated

oh and the starter was replaced in january