Tech: How to bypass VATS
#51
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Re: Community effort - defeating VATS sticky
I did the bypass on my 91, but started to have intermittent stall outs, the car would run for about 20 minutes then stall out, some times even the fuel pump would shut off, then last week the alternator fried out, I did swap it for a new one, but not sure of the car will make it long distance to anywhere right now?...any advice having to do with VATS will be very helpful*
#52
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
If you are keeping the pasakey module with your engine swap make sure to ground the module through the c207 connector. Pin m on my car but it will be the black/white wire. Looking on the 92 schematic above it grounds through the c100 connector.
If the module is working you will get the security light for a second or two when you first move the key to run position, then it will go off. If you have the right key or resistor in place when you move it to start the starter relay will be grounded and starter will engage. If you have the wrong key the security light will come on and disable the starter for 10-15 min or so.
https://youtu.be/I7UEI5iMAzQ
C207 with port m grounded
If the module is working you will get the security light for a second or two when you first move the key to run position, then it will go off. If you have the right key or resistor in place when you move it to start the starter relay will be grounded and starter will engage. If you have the wrong key the security light will come on and disable the starter for 10-15 min or so.
https://youtu.be/I7UEI5iMAzQ
C207 with port m grounded
#53
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
Back of the cylinder head on my 89 Firebird if I remember right.
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#55
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
Maybe contact Aviator857. Looks like he had a Camaro of similar year to yours. He's a helpful guy.
#56
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Re: Community effort - defeating VATS sticky
I did the bypass on my 91, but started to have intermittent stall outs, the car would run for about 20 minutes then stall out, some times even the fuel pump would shut off, then last week the alternator fried out, I did swap it for a new one, but not sure of the car will make it long distance to anywhere right now?...any advice having to do with VATS will be very helpful*
#57
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
The alternator regulates voltage and doesn't care what is the electrical load but it does care about load dumps. As you well mention, if there is loose/broken wire somewhere that is causing inductive devices to cycle on/off, then it can cause large voltage spikes and some of that energy will be consumed by the diodes in the alternator. Do it repeatedly in a short amount of time and the diodes will overheat and fail... and alternator dead.
Shelton, maybe it's worthwhile to step back to the beginning and explain why you did a VATS bypass in the first place? What were the symptoms of the problem you were trying to solve.
Shelton, maybe it's worthwhile to step back to the beginning and explain why you did a VATS bypass in the first place? What were the symptoms of the problem you were trying to solve.
Last edited by QwkTrip; 12-30-2018 at 12:39 PM.
#60
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Car: 92 Camaro RS
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Transmission: 700R4
Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
Hi I recently bought a 92 Camaro RS with no key. I bought a new key switch and I have been trying a few days with resistors to get it started but with no success so far! The car has the ECM and Passkey module. I tried option C (Jumper the starter relay plug with a wire) and the engine cranks.
If I leave it like that will I have issues? If I understood correct the VATS also cuts off power to the injectors or does this method C power up the injectors also?
Thanks
If I leave it like that will I have issues? If I understood correct the VATS also cuts off power to the injectors or does this method C power up the injectors also?
Thanks
#61
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
No, you have to get an ECM chip burned to delete VATS to pulse the injectors or get a VATS emulator to trick the ECM to think it is still getting the VATS signal.
#62
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
Hallo,
I bought a new key and ignition cilinder. The after-market key does not have the same resistance as the old one. So i need to bypas the VATS as well.
I have chosen for method C. But my injectors do not fire. Do i need to ground these to?
Thank you in advance!
I bought a new key and ignition cilinder. The after-market key does not have the same resistance as the old one. So i need to bypas the VATS as well.
I have chosen for method C. But my injectors do not fire. Do i need to ground these to?
Thank you in advance!
#64
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Car: 1989 Firebird
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
is your car ls swapped? If so you need a bypass module still or tune VATS out of the PCM. If stock EFI get a bypass module so the ECU sees the vats as working. Though easier is take your old key and your new key to a Chevy dealership and have them cut a new key with the right resistance and the right cut.
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Car: 92 Camaro RS
Engine: 305 TBI
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
2. Buy a Eprom with the VATS deleted and don't have to worry about it again.
I went with option 2 and am very happy!
3. There are a few more options which a never tried. You can find on Third gen if you search.
Good luck.
#66
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Re: Community effort - defeating VATS sticky
HUH?!?! Not even remotely in the same ball park as an illegal activity of rolling back the odometer.
It is a basic, common, and necessary modification for people that upgrade or change engine management system. And it is probably in the top 3 questions asked in this particular forum.
It is a basic, common, and necessary modification for people that upgrade or change engine management system. And it is probably in the top 3 questions asked in this particular forum.
First things first... This was a perfectly put together Thread by QwkTrip.
It really is great, with all the pertinent and correct information.
By now, I am not surprised because I regularly find Threads and Posts by QwkTrip to be done quite well.
This is information that I feel all VATS equipped 3rd-Gen owners should know... or at least have access to.
The VAT-Systems of this era were problematic... and depending on what has failed (intermittently or not)...
Bypassing may be the ONLY choice in order to start/ run the vehicle.
These systems were also extremely basic... There are many reasons why modern-day VAT-Systems are far more complicated.
The information posted here (in a very nicely broken-down/ categorized manor) goes over different steps/ methods of Bypassing VATS.
All this information was taught to GM Field Engineers and Technicians that needed to be able to Bypass, Diagnose, and Repair VATS.
So there is no harm done by the vehicle owners also learning this information.
I want to emphasize that there is nothing "crooked or criminal" about this information...
What is "criminal", is an individuals intention to use this information for illegal purposes.
I really feel that this was a great, informative, and well put together Thread that deserves praise and should not be questioned in terms of morality.
Learning to Drive an automobile is not a criminal act... deciding to run-over a person in order to do them harm is a criminal act!
Don't miss the distinction!
Great Job QwkTrip!!!
Last edited by vorteciroc; 05-15-2021 at 10:00 PM.
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91 Maui Blue (08-28-2023)
#67
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
Thank you for the advice. I would like to use a resistor as well. But there is no key with the resistance and the VATS does not accept any of the 15 resistors. I found a document that claim to know how to relearn your VATS, But i still need to test this.
#69
Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
I had all these modulators and all the good ones:
http://pcoholperformance.com
https://m.ebay.com/itm/GM-VATS-or-PA...gAAOSw3fZZ6JWY
http://www.bakerelectronix.com/products_vats/employee tracking
http://pcoholperformance.com
https://m.ebay.com/itm/GM-VATS-or-PA...gAAOSw3fZZ6JWY
http://www.bakerelectronix.com/products_vats/employee tracking
#70
Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
My 17 year old son and I are trying to resurrect an '89 Camaro 305. It runs well when it runs, but has a hard time starting. After lots of research, we have figured out that we don't have the original key with the resistor. We bought a bypass module, but it doesn't seem to help.
As far as we know, it has the Original ECM, although it appears to likely have been messed with by a previous owner.
From the OP, it looks like the best option might be to replace the ECM with a new one that eliminates the injector control and use "Method C" from above to bypass the VATS Module and Starter Relay.
Does this sound like the best option? Or is there a better option like replacing VATS module?
If replacing the ECM is the best option, can you recommend a source for the replacement ECM? Please provide a link if possible.
Thanks in advance.
As far as we know, it has the Original ECM, although it appears to likely have been messed with by a previous owner.
From the OP, it looks like the best option might be to replace the ECM with a new one that eliminates the injector control and use "Method C" from above to bypass the VATS Module and Starter Relay.
Does this sound like the best option? Or is there a better option like replacing VATS module?
If replacing the ECM is the best option, can you recommend a source for the replacement ECM? Please provide a link if possible.
Thanks in advance.
#73
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
Assuming you have an automatic you could use a 88 ecm and chip. Just bypass the starter enable relay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/29385855437...mis&media=COPY
https://www.ebay.com/itm/16591396101...mis&media=COPY
https://www.ebay.com/itm/29385855437...mis&media=COPY
https://www.ebay.com/itm/16591396101...mis&media=COPY
#75
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
The 88 305 t5 chip might be harder to source.
you might try this or get a chip for your 1228746 ecm vats delete made.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/28270041228...mis&media=COPY
you might try this or get a chip for your 1228746 ecm vats delete made.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/28270041228...mis&media=COPY
#77
Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
Adding this info to the thread regarding 88 GTAs, as suggested by @QwkTrip. While all F-Bodies got the VATS in 89 as known, it was throwing me off that my 88 GTA had VATS, while no other model from 88 got it. And most 88 GTA owners I conversed with said they didn't have the VATS. Not to mention my VATS ignition cylinder wire is a different color (black with yellow, instead of the standard orange with white). Now it turns out even the starter enable relay isn't located in the standard location behind the kick panel. As it turns out, GM decided to phase in the VATS in the model year 88 GTA ONLY, and not the other Firebird models (I don't know if they did something similar with Camaros). And in 88, it was ONLY the GTAs made from December 1987 onwards that got the VATS. Consequently, everything related to the VATS is slightly different relative to the 1989 models onwards, such as wire colors, relay locations etc. I received this information from the very knowledgeable administrator of The Trans Am GTA Source Page. I've attached the GM document detailing what I just stated above. Hope this helps any 88 GTA owner who has the misfortune to have a GTA made from Dec 87 onwards and equipped with VATS
, like me.
, like me.
#78
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
I have bypassed the ignition component with a resistor and I’m certain that works but I still get intermittent security light no starts. I have stock ecm.
Is this a sign my vats module is nearing end of life? The security light comes on and stays on and then two or three (4 minute delayed) tries later it will usually start just fine.
I tested with an old key that never worked and it will usually start fine with the bypass.
Anybody have this experience? What did you do?
91 RS
Is this a sign my vats module is nearing end of life? The security light comes on and stays on and then two or three (4 minute delayed) tries later it will usually start just fine.
I tested with an old key that never worked and it will usually start fine with the bypass.
Anybody have this experience? What did you do?
91 RS
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
Thank you.
maybe dumb q but: Do I need to replace the stock ecm to bypass the starter relay as in option b above?
I am assuming if the ecm is not getting a consistent hz signal from the pass key module then bypassing the starter relay would get me crank but no fuel as the stock ecm won’t engage the fuel injector without a signal from the pass key module…?
or can I bypass the stock ecm control over the fuel injector?
maybe dumb q but: Do I need to replace the stock ecm to bypass the starter relay as in option b above?
I am assuming if the ecm is not getting a consistent hz signal from the pass key module then bypassing the starter relay would get me crank but no fuel as the stock ecm won’t engage the fuel injector without a signal from the pass key module…?
or can I bypass the stock ecm control over the fuel injector?
#82
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
Thank you. This does not sound particularly difficult. I will try it and let you know.
(I am not a mechanic this is the first car I am learning to work on, if you think I’m likely to wreck something trying to do this as a novice please let me know.)
(I am not a mechanic this is the first car I am learning to work on, if you think I’m likely to wreck something trying to do this as a novice please let me know.)
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
#85
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
Thank you!
would you recommend upgrading the ECM while I’m at it or is that not worth the effort? I’m having fun with my son with it, squeezing everything we can out of the RS :-)
would you recommend upgrading the ECM while I’m at it or is that not worth the effort? I’m having fun with my son with it, squeezing everything we can out of the RS :-)
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91 Maui Blue (08-23-2023)
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
Thanks.
ive looked at these instructions they look doable for anybody who’s comfortable with basic electrical work.
http://timers.shop/assets/documentat...***_Module.pdf
I’ll take pictures and report back.
ive looked at these instructions they look doable for anybody who’s comfortable with basic electrical work.
http://timers.shop/assets/documentat...***_Module.pdf
I’ll take pictures and report back.
#90
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
Meanwhile my regular mechanic connected me with an electrical shop that says they have software they can use to delete vats from the system entirely.
apart from the $200 price tag is there any reason this isn’t actually the best and most reliable solution to get rid of this problem forever?
apart from the $200 price tag is there any reason this isn’t actually the best and most reliable solution to get rid of this problem forever?
#94
Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
If someone can provide me a schematic of my pcm plugs that has the known wires to connect this tiny box to that would be great. Basically its the White wire I believe and a black for ground and a red for power or switched power. I have more time into this than it would take me to change out head gaskets on a v8 ! Very frustrating.
thanks
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
Ok first of all apols to tuned performance I didn’t get back to you on the invoice. My son wants to try this doohickey.
junkheads experience sounds like maybe that’s not gonna work for me but I did find instructions for this thing in pdf
http://timers.shop/assets/documentat...***_Module.pdf
ill let you know what I figure out.
If this doesn’t work and the new chip from tunes performance doesn’t work for whatever reason I’ve got a third option which is software flash to
the chip.
I do have confidence that we can defeat this stupid system 😂
junkheads experience sounds like maybe that’s not gonna work for me but I did find instructions for this thing in pdf
http://timers.shop/assets/documentat...***_Module.pdf
ill let you know what I figure out.
If this doesn’t work and the new chip from tunes performance doesn’t work for whatever reason I’ve got a third option which is software flash to
the chip.
I do have confidence that we can defeat this stupid system 😂
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91 Maui Blue (08-26-2023)
#97
Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
A pic of my A1-B1 plug . This is the B side
#98
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Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
The color is probably blue , cut and hook white there ecm side of cut wire.
from the instructions:
RED: 12V ignition of accessories
WHITE: Fuel Enable wire. 50hz or 30hz.
BLUE/GREEN: Control wire. If none of the wires connected to the ground then the output is 50 Hz
suitable for most of the cars. Some cars (90-93) require 30 Hz. In that case, connect the Blue wire to
the Ground.
BLACK: Ground
from the instructions:
RED: 12V ignition of accessories
WHITE: Fuel Enable wire. 50hz or 30hz.
BLUE/GREEN: Control wire. If none of the wires connected to the ground then the output is 50 Hz
suitable for most of the cars. Some cars (90-93) require 30 Hz. In that case, connect the Blue wire to
the Ground.
BLACK: Ground
#99
Re: Tech: How to bypass VATS
Ok, I did hook the white wire up to the blue wire & the red and black as needed. The unit flashes as it should. Went to start & nothing. So I then took the blue wire & connected it to ground for the 30 setting and it flashed differently as it should. Went to start and nothing. I need to walk away. I have too much time into this POS. I appreciate & thank you for all the help. I’m just done for now. You may see it up for sale or on a trip to the scrap yard.
thanks!
thanks!