Purple and yellow starter wiring by kick panel usually is where relay is for starter
abd with VAts there’s 2 additional wires smaller size and you can jump them to byoass
vats

that’s not needed on non vats cars

so my question is does anyone know the relay and or what suppose to to go
there vs me just jumping the capables as it be much cleaner to have to correct relay there

and I assume I could wire a kill switch to this setup as well

never dealt with non vats car and I’ve search but mainly just vats cars come up

i tried looking up at auto store but nothing comes up

a picture or part number would be helpful

 

A relay is a relay. If you want to wire the relay to a kill switch then do so. Non VATS cars have no relay because they have no VATS. There is no such thing as a "VATS relay" in the sense you mean it. Use the existing relay for a kill switch or crimp and heat shrink the two wires together.

GD

 

i said starter relay I said nothing about vats relay
so before you start rambling I’m very aware of the VATS system
this is my 4th third gen

Kill switch was just me thinking out loud

all I ask is what’s the part number for the relay or relay Type for a non vats equip car
or
there wasn’t one from factory ?

But it thanks for the bump

Did you even read the title

 

GD was telling you. There is no relay if you have no VATS. If you want to use a relay like the VATS would have, any high current relay will suffice. If you don't have VATS the wire just goes from the start switch in the column directly to the C100. Maybe read over what he said again.

You sounds really condescending and you're the one who doesn't seem to understand. It's your 4th 3rd gen, but you don't know that there's no relay

 

It is the "VATS starter enable relay" and it doesn't exist AT ALL on non-VATS cars. So there is no "Non-VATS starter enable relay"..... that is not a part that exists or even needs to exist. Wire the smaller gauge ground signal wire to a ground through a switch and otherwise disable VATS. Now you have a kill switch.

Number of third gens owned has no obvious relationship to electrical knowledge. Non sequitur.

GD

 

slow down there not even that not trying to come of as such so my bad on that sarcastic humor doesn't work well in texts

no I don't know I never had a non vats equip car hence why I ask the question they all had vats
I was tearing down the interior and was wondering why there's a plug for the relay by kick panel
which lead me to the question if there was a relay
and

I understand what your saying and what he said I also understand the no starter relay and vats as well but doesn't answer on the purpose of the plug

so my question is that if the yellow wire goes directly to c100 from ignition ...then why the need for the relay plug that has the purple starter wire
and yellow wire near kick panel ?
it looks exactly like the starter relay plug minus the 2 smaller wires and just has the larger yellow and purple wire

as is there's no issues and nothing is connected and everything works fine this is just an general question on purpose and if there was something that plugs there relay or cap or something

 

OK, to that question, I believe the answer is that some cars got the wiring for the neutral safety switch AND the automatic selector switch. So if you were to unplug the PRND switch in the center column you would connect the NSS for the clutch pedal for the starter interrupt/NSS. Both those ends would be "parallel" to each other and you would need one of those switches to get the car to start.

Though my experience is that most cars don't come with both, only one or the other.

**EDIT**

Though you haven't mentioned what year the car is, and I think VATS may have been an option? in some of the earlier years for the cars? So maybe it could be an actual VATS starter connector?

 

I agree I have electrical knowledge but the basics as far as wiring things soldering testing but that's the tip of the ice berg

yea my plug just have the purple and yellow wire and when I bridge it the starter didn't turn at all just to see if it was a redundant wire as it does receives 12v

 

1988 so it is border line and could of been a option as my understanding is that it started with corvette being standard in 87 I believe and the f body was optional in 87 or 88 and then became standard in 89

that would make sense in have the plug for the relay then and or possible NSS being a possible option but then why leave some of the vats wiring out of it lol

I look at the wiring schematics and doesn't really show the detailed wiring for that unless there's some other more detailed schematic

 

So this already IS a non VATS car from the factory? That was not clear from your first post. Sorry I don't know what connector your are talking about then. Sounds like maybe a clutch switch not connected due to automatic trans like Scooter said.

GD

 

yea my bad on that lol

its looks exactly like the starter relay on vats equp cars just minus the 2 smaller wires, this isn't my picture or car but it looks like this minus the relay and smaller wires

its just a empty plug with the 2 larger wires

 

Its probably there cause the pigtail is part of a larger harness and GM probably made one harness for all models, regardless.Just like some have the plug in the console for the clock even when no clock is optioned. Wouldn't you have a "vats" key if the car was originally vats equipped? Did you find the vats module?

As for the relay, its same type of relay as used in the eng bay, like the ones by the booster on the firewall or on the H-vac box.

 

no so cars prior to 89 wasn’t equip with vats
from reading looks like it was a option tho
and not standard equipment on 87-88 cars
89 and on cars became standard

my formula doesn’t have cars and or cars key
and it prob like what you said or along those lines
idk just thought it was weird to have a break in the wiring
with the plug and no connection to the purple and yellow wire

Hasn’t have issues just thought it was odd that
wires where missing to make it a complete plug up type option
at the dealer if they wanted vats

 

I think vats came out on the f body late 88 production.
I have a 88 tune that was released 5/19/87 akfy that has vats.

 

Yea that's what I seen

 

GTA got VATS first, everything else got it later, IIRC.

Some thirdgens are wired at least partially for both auto and manual transmission. As far as the later cars are concerned, the TBI dash harness is setup for both, but the 3.1/5.0tpi/5.7 cars are only wired for whichever they have.

Before VATS and the VATS relay, that cubby housed the power lock relay. When they switched to VATS and/or the smaller Potter Brumfeld lock relay, they moved the lock relay higher on the kickpanel, by where early cars have the junction block.

Yellow/Purple, Green/Purple, Tan/Purple are all possible color combos for the starter enable circuit. Early cars tend to be Yellow/Purple. They starter using Tan/Purple during the VATS years, but you'd sometimes still see the Yellow wire in some parts of the circuit, depending on if you're between the VATS relay and the neutral safety switch or shifter switch, or ignition switch. Later cars, like 91.5-92 the yellow wire went mostly green. Probably as part of GM's move to make everything color coded yellow related to the airbag circuit, like the yellow ECM plug being changed the pea green from yellow.

Edit: Oops, I forgot a variation... 91.5-92 cars will often use a square Bosch style relay instead of the wide/flat start enable relay with mounting ears. This should not be confused with the Fog Light relay on later cars, which generally have it's harness hanging out by the fuse block/ALDL connector. All later cars have the socket for the fog light relay, regardless if the car came with fog lights.

Now that we're all thoroughly confused... I return you to your regular programming, already in progress.

 

I don't think there's no confusion on the VATs at least for me
maybe a lil on the wiring but that was cleared up
but my confusion is the actual relay
So if I understand correctly then... I should have a relay block in there or not ? " Power Lock Relay " as you mention is what I should have since I don't have VATs

 

Do you have power locks?

 

Yes I do

 

Ok then... In the beginning, there was T.H.E. CAN. The relay module that received and transmitted signals and power from the power door lock switches, to the power door lock solenoids. It lived in a tar/rubber covered cubby in the kick panel, and it was good.


(ignore my dirty carpet)

Then came the Law Offices of Potter & Brumfield - Building Better Worlds. A plastic cased power lock relay module, that no longer depended on the mounting screw for a ground. The P & B relay was smaller, thus requiring less real estate, allowing it to be relocated higher on the kick panel, outside of the confines of the cubby.




Then came the VATS system, and it's insidious Starter Enable Relay! In an act of subterfuge, GM engineers once again took advantage of the kick panel cubby, and encased the Starter Enable Relay behind a tar/rubber patch to hide it from Johnny Sticky Fingaz the car thief.



So to recap... If you have VATS, you should have a Starter Enable Relay in the cubby behind the rubber/tar patch. If you have an earlier car with power locks, you may have the bulky tin can cased Power Lock Relay. If you have something else in there, you might want to post a pic so someone can give you a positive ID. Because cars without VATS shouldn't have any kind of relay in there relating to the starter.

 

Yea I’ll look again but def remember no tin or connectors resembling first pic
I’ll double check to make sure I’m not crazy and take pics

and def looks like potter & Brumfield Building is the relay that fits the plug
so I’m assuming just needs to be left alone and nothing needs to be plug in
but looks like someone went in there before so just want to be sure

but I’ll double check once more to be sure and post pics

 

Ok so I took a look and it does have power lock relay and the flat plug that would have the starter relay

first time I looked I was rushing so did more through look just now
car is a mess it’s at auto hobby show and it opens 10-5 wish it had longer hours

but thanks def learned something new

so I assume the purp and yellow wire is just redundant and plays no part in the
starter wiring system but started to use when vats was equipped
also I’m color blind too blues purples and some greens so if I’m wrong on the colors that’s why lol

 

That there is the dash harness side of a clutch position switch, aka clutch neutral safety switch, aka that's where the clutch pedal mounted switch would plug in if the car were a five speed. If it were a 5spd, you'd have a roughly 6" long pigtail that would plug in there, and the other end would plug into the clutch NSSwitch. Lemme find a pic...




And yeah, it's a redundant circuit that is there on some cars. I emphasize some cars, because it's been said previously that all thirdgens are wired for clutch pedals, and a person can spend a lot of time digging for something that's not there in a lot of cases, and never was there. At least for 91, and I'd assume 92 is the same, probably 90 too, the only dash harness wired for both the auto/5spd is the TBI version. All the 7730 auto trans harnesses don't have that extra plug.

 

Ahhhh gotcha all makes sense now

never thought about when I did t56 swap or went to junk yard to pull parts

thanks for the clarification when I was going over diagram doesn’t state that
just has either or so I assumed it was either or depending if you had auto or manual
but didn’t know that some where wired for both

 

91 Firebird diagram for reference. See the section on the right side, and notice it shows Vin E with a clutch pedal and an auto shifter? Yeah. That'd be the C234 connector.

 

Gotcha that one more detailed l