So i got back from the dyno, with a lousy set of numbers and felt as if somthing might be wrong with the motor, but this guy tuned it and burned a chip and such but i only pulled a lousy 278Hp with this setup...

355 .030 over 9.1 compression

AFR 195 heads
Comp Camps roller grind for blower specs:
276 intake
290 exhaust
220 at .050
230 at .050
510 intake with 1.5 rocker
510 exhaust with 1.5 rocker
114 lobe
Crane aluminum rockers 1.6 ratio
TRW blower pistons
Total seal rings
Eagle Sir Rods 5.7
GM 1053 steel crank
Fluidamper and tci flywheel both sfi approved
Edelbrock aluminum water pump for TPI serpintine

The only problem is im still running the tpi setup, i have a vid and paperwork on this motor which pulled a 397Hp (crank) on the dyno with some other intake that i didnt purchase with the engine( not sure which one) . Do you think these numbers are corerect, is the TPI killing a ****load of HP from the engine, i know it would wake up if i straped my D1SC on but im trying to get more from the motor first, should i start saving my pennies for a mini ram, the fuel pressure is stock, should i go higher ? What are your thoughts, thanks in advance!

 

the tpi sure isn't helping, but you ought to do better. what injectors and FP are you running? what's the total timing

 

Is that 278 hp at the rear wheels?

 

Was the cam installed a tooth off?

 

That's why I don't run TPI.

It was probably tested with some kind of an intake that flows at high RPMs, like a Victor Jr. or something. That's how they get those big dyno HP numbers. Shops that build motors and dyno them will always do that, because it makes their work look better on paper. A free-flowing intake will move the torque curve over to the right on the graph compared to a restrictive one; the actual peak torque won't be too different (after all, that's ultimately determined by how many gasoline molecules you can burn in each cylinder fill, which doesn't change all that radically from one N/A motor to another of the same size), it will simply occur at a higher RPM.

Remember, HP is a mythical substance that doesn't exist; the thing that actually exists is torque. HP is calculated from HP, by the formula

torque * RPM / 5252.11

Compare the torque curves of the dyno pull on the stand, and the dyno pull in the chassis. I'd bet you'll see very similar numbers up to the point where TPI causes the motor to nose over, which is around 4500 RPM. You will be looking at living proof of what's wrong with TPI. Basically what has happened here, is you took a great motor, that you even know how good it is because you have proof of what it did when given a proper induction system, and nutted it by installing that restriction on it.

A blower will do a great deal to overcome that.

 

Well not entirely, since horsepower is the measurement of work that the engine can complete in a given timeframe. Hp is derived from torque yes; but HP isn't a mythical substance. It's a real measurement of the engine's ability to complete work in a certain amount of time.

Back to the main topic, I'd say TPI is what's really strangling you. There is some degree of performance gain with switching to aftermarket runners and base but eventually that will still hit a theoretical wall and you'll once again be stuck and you will have sunk a bunch of money into a wall. Look into purchasing an aftermarket MPFI setup, or go carb if you are low on money.

 

The fuel pressure is at 45 psi, they are Accel 32# and the timing is at about 8* should i advance timing and fuel pressure, i ran with 10* for a little while but it didnt seem to yeild better results, the HP numbers were at the wheels, the torque was 298.7 @ 3800 rpms, i kinda knew that the intake was going to be a bottle neck, i ported it mildly behind my 52mm TB but nothing like a pro port job, probbably not worth it anyway, so what aftermarket MPFI can i use with my hotchkis STB ?

 

You shouldn't be dissapointed. You can expect a 25 - 30% loss in horsepower when you go from an engine dyno to a rear wheel dyno. You're losing 30%. A stock formula 350 rear wheel dynos at around 210 hp. You've increased the power by a solid 70 hp. Cosidering you lowered the compression a little and went with a blower cam grind, thats not too bad. Once you get the supercharger installed, the TPI restrictions won't be an issue anymore.

 

That cam you have makes power to 6000 RPM, the TPI can't support it there.

 

Accel Stealth Ram has the same installed height as a TPI unit.

 

i thought they didnt make the stealth ram anymore, or was that another intake ?

 

Yeah they discontinued the Stealth Ram. I was picturing the Super Ram in my head, but thinking Stealth Ram as the name.

 

Excuse me?

The Stealth Ram is a Holley product, newly introduced to the market. It looks suspiciously like a certain old dual-quad intake they have made for ages, with injector bungs cast into it; and a plenum that goes on top of that; and a place on the front of the plenum for a TB. They just finally managed to get the first production run out the door and satisfy all the backorders for it. AFAIK it is not discontinued.

 

car craft tested the new holley super ram or whatever its called in the new issue if anyone wantes to know.

 

This is news to me. When was it released again? It's not in my 00 or 01 Holley Lineup catalogue (damn I gotta try and get 02). I suspiciously remember a MPFI system that Accel had a bit back that was like the T-Ram and it being called the Stealth Ram. I'd be willing to bet though that Im wrong.

 

Accel has a product called the Pro Ram, which looks like a single-plane 4-barrel carb with injector bungs in it; the thing they discontinued some parts of is the SuperRam, which is the great big square box thing that looks and works similarly to TPI with long runner tubes, except it's an evn bigger PITA to work on. The Stealth Ram wouldn't be in a Holley 00 or 01 catalog because it's brand new. Check their web site.

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...FMS/SR/SR.html

http://www.mrgasket.com/accelmain.html go to their online catalog, page 4

It would be nice if people would post facts and real information instead of guesses, hearsay, and other garbage.

 

forget it

 

As far as non stock TPI intakes go (maybe not a complete list):

SuperRam (Accel/Lingenfelter)
Miniram (TPIS)
T-Ram (SLP)
Stealth Ram (Holley)

The stealth ram is brand new. Its existed for maybe 4 months now. The T-Ram is long gone. AFAIK the SuperRam is available but more expensive than it used to be.