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Questions about smog laws?

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Questions about smog laws?

Old 03-05-2003, 10:26 PM
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Questions about smog laws?

Think you are exempt and can do what you want? Think again. From a SEMA newsletter (and I believe all this to be technically accurate)

Memo 1A.
This refers to a U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) memorandum that says it's illegal to remove, disconnect or disable a required emissions control device on any pollution controlled motor vehicle (PCMV), pretty much any 1968 (1966 in California) or later model year car/light duty vehicle used on public roads. What this means is that even if you don't have a local emissions-testing requirement, technically you can still break federal law by chucking/disabling your vehicle's smog equipment.

Federal Emissions Requirements.
If your area has emissions testing, almost certainly some form of underhood inspection goes along with it. Technicians will check to make sure that all required smog equipment is installed and functioning properly. This does not mean you can't change things! You just have to make sure changes you make are smog legal and comply with Memo 1A. Because you may need to prove compliance to an inspector, most product manufacturers offer documentation that states their products are at least "49-state smog legal," effectively claiming that their products satisfy the EPA requirements. One warning: Products that claim 49-state smog legality are not legal for use in California (or states that use California emissions standards) on PCMVs.

California (CARB) Emissions Requirements.
If you live in California or states that use California emissions standards, then Memo 1A/49-state smog legal isn't enough. Your product must have an Executive Order (EO) number issued by the California Air Resources Board to be legal for use on a PCMV, unless it can be considered a replacement part. That means the manufacturer of the product must obtain an EO number before the product can be advertised or sold in California. The manufacturer must also provide an underhood label with the part that inspectors can use to verify that it's appropriate for the vehicle it's on. Products that have EOs are often called "50-state smog legal" because having an EO satisfies both California and EPA requirements. This is pretty cut and dried except for some products like intake manifolds, which can qualify as replacement parts even though they're made by aftermarket companies. In these cases, many aftermarket companies include documentation explaining the status of these parts.
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Old 03-06-2003, 12:55 AM
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Old 03-06-2003, 02:56 AM
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:49 PM
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smog

Help me understand this , Is Memo 1A refering to the Clean Air Act of 1990. If a engine mod or swap took place before this date, are we exempt. I have always wanted to know this. Here in Florida we have no local smog laws. There seems to be so many people who have tampered with emissions(engine swaps, etc..) and have all sorts of money invested in their cars. Will they just have to park their cars? I have asked this question so many times about emissions laws, all I get if you install a newer motor than your car with all the "stuff" blah blah, But with so many people having such nice illegal cars. What will the law make us do?
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Old 03-06-2003, 09:57 PM
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Unfortunately, you have to go back further than 1990, more like 1974. This is a text version with later notes:

http://www.epa.gov/orcdizux/regs/fuels/cff/memo-1a.txt

This is the actual document. Note the reference to a 1972 document, that I did not read:

http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour...per-memo1a.pdf Note that its a PDF file!

Scary, huh?

I know that doesnt exactly answer your question, but I am pretty sure most if not all of us would be screwed. At the very least you would need some documentation to back up when the modification was done. I do know that in California sometime in the early 80's IIRC (and prior), they allowed conversion to an earlier drivetrain which could, in theory, also eliminate some emission control devices. Any car modified before that date was considered legal by the state, but when the law passed making conversions like that illegal, you had to take your legally converted cars' paperwork and send it to the state, so they would have records that it was a legal swap. I know my dad missed the date by like a year, he wanted to do it.
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Old 03-07-2003, 02:05 AM
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I think a good question that needs to be answered (maybe it has, I don't know for sure) is that if we take an engine like a ZZ4 or a 383 that says "not intended for use on pollution controlled vehicles" and take all the emissions junk off our stock engines and put it onto the new engine, it should pass, especially if you're using a cat, fuel injection, and a more efficient ignition system (MSD box or similar). I mean there are so many late model cars running these engines with these setups and they have to be passing emissions, especially when you see they are living in California or New York.
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Old 03-07-2003, 10:16 PM
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Very true. If I had it my way, if the car passes a sniffer test, who cares what is under there? Thing is, the government doesnt work that way. If there are any changes that could raise emissions, its not legal. Silly, but factual. What you have done is dove into the gray area that most people operate in, the one where it looks stock, or runs clean as stock, but it isnt stock.
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Old 03-07-2003, 11:08 PM
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Well, in MO anyways, the law states that you can do what you want to the car but it has to pass emissions to the standard set for the year of production. So it would have to be near equal to or below (preferrably below) what a 1989 5.7L IROC is supposed to put out in my case. if I wanted a '70 454, and put it in, the car would still need to meet the emissions standards for 1989 350. But since fancy fuel injection, MSD ignition boxes, a cat from say CarSound that can hande the emissions load from say a 383 or 377 stroker motor and AIR/smog pump and EGR should be clean, fuel economy might be lower, but it should be clean. I'm sure they give a little leeway on the numbers because of the age of the car and the fact that no matter what you do aside from replacing everything, the engine will not be as clean 13 years later as it was brand new or even 5 years old. I'd suggest if you have emissions laws, keep your emissions equipment on and you can even get stuff like higher flow cats that can clean up the pollutants of a 406 just as well as a stock cat could clean up the stock engine. Saving 5-10 HP really won't make a difference, especially if you've got a monster 383 or a 377 putting out like 500 HP anyways, but at a 5-10 HP loss, you'll pass emissions and keep the car cleaner for the environment.
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Old 03-08-2003, 02:54 PM
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Just remember that federal law is controlling over state law. You might not be in violation of laws in your state, but you are in the feds' eyes.
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Old 03-18-2003, 04:27 PM
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inspections suck

i say screw it. inspections are only once a year.......find out what it takes to make you pass....get the sticker and take all the stuff back off......no big deal. to some cars smog stuff and making the car pass emissions is a lot more than 10 hp. especially on the 305s. just my $.02 take it or leave it.
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Old 03-22-2003, 10:36 AM
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heck for us in california they are once every two years. If you live in california just make sure it looks stock and if you do anything in the way of new parts keep the stock ones around(like the induction). take two days before smog scheck and make everything look good. Also if the engine bay looks clean the techs will say less because it looks like the car is taken care of.
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Old 04-02-2003, 01:48 PM
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Is there anyway to make a car run cleaner? Like, can you run it really lean or something so that less fuel is being used to make it idle so when you go in for the sniffer your putting out less emissions?
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Old 04-02-2003, 05:16 PM
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making the car run lean is dangerous. it will scrotch the piston walls.
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Old 04-08-2003, 09:28 PM
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How do you find out what your state requires to pass emmisisons? My goal is to put a big block crate motor like a 502 ram jet or the like into my 88 trans am and run it on the street/strip. Does that mean that a 502 with smog equipment is legal if it passes the requirements for my original 305 tpi setup? Or does each state dictate what is legal and what isn't? NJ already sucks enough as it is, am I being realistic or just dreaming of such a swap? What about a stock LS1 setup? It passes emmisions in a vette/newer f-body, what about a 3rd gen car? Will NJ fail it?
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Old 04-09-2003, 10:26 AM
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a stock ls1 would work but a ram jet 502 with 502 + horspower wouldnt. basically they dont allow for bigger engine because of saftey issues with the frame. you can use the smog equipment and induction that comes witht the ls1
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Old 04-09-2003, 10:31 AM
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o ya, every state dictates its own requirments. however, what may suck for a lot of people, is every state is thinking of adopting california smog laws.
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Old 05-06-2003, 06:32 PM
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I have always wondered about this because I have a 305 and want to put in a 350, yet a lot of those engines are "not intended for street use"

What would happen if you hooked up TWO cats on your exhaust for the emissions test, then took them off when you were done?
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Old 05-06-2003, 09:21 PM
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viual inspections

thats why there is visual...if the car was not origionally equiped with dual cats then you cant have them. basically in caifornia you are aloud to have what the car came with from the factory. if you want to mod your car the parts have to be certified with a CARB EO number. many parts that cant be seen with in the visual can be gettin away with. the 350 can pass emmissions because few people can tell a 305 from a 350 or even a 400 without pulling the numbers off the block.
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Old 05-13-2003, 12:21 AM
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ok maybe i missed this but what about power adders such as super charger, turbo charger or even Nitrous"?
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Old 05-13-2003, 12:24 AM
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well for the superchargers and turbo chargers i believe have to have a carb EO number to be legal. for the no2 i think that the laws differ from city to city on whether it is legal.
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Old 05-13-2003, 12:56 AM
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ok well one more question then while where at it where is the general area to find this number ie what does it look like and how long is it? thanx still trying to understand all the smog laws out in cali
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Old 05-13-2003, 01:20 AM
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CARB EO stands for California Air Resorces Board Executice Order Number. It is a number given to aftermarket parts that the state of california has deemed good to use on vehicles in california that have to be smogged.

A carb EO number looks like E.O. #D-215-46
this one happens to be for edelbrock performer heads.
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Old 05-13-2003, 01:21 AM
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by the way dont even ask me how much reseach ive done about how to get my car to pass when they told me i had to go to a test only station one year.
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Old 05-13-2003, 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by SuperTrans Man
ok maybe i missed this but what about power adders such as super charger, turbo charger or even Nitrous"?
Dont quote me on this, but I think nitrous isnt street legal for other reasons.

As for other power adders, or really any "non-conforming" part, the car has to be tested and they have to basically prove the emissions wont increase from the change... or so they say. I think that area is a bit gray, and loaded with green paper stuff.
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Old 05-13-2003, 09:57 AM
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madmax, you from california?

i dont think that the referees here have the power to tell the bureaucrats what is legal in california...if it in not CARB certified it is not legally going on your vehicle. but who follows any of those laws?
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Old 05-15-2003, 12:55 AM
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No, the referees dont have any room to move. Maybe you misunderstood, but thats how the EO is obtained, the part is tested and has to be OK'd by the governing agency, which in this case would be the Cali Air Resources Board. You could, in theory, modify your car however you want and get the whole thing EO'd, if you had wads of cash, time, and friends in high places.

Yes, I am from Cali.
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Old 05-15-2003, 09:44 AM
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if i had that kind of money i wouldnt have a third gen...maybe a first gen...but most likely a ferrari.
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Old 06-01-2003, 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by StealthElephant
Is there anyway to make a car run cleaner? Like, can you run it really lean or something so that less fuel is being used to make it idle so when you go in for the sniffer your putting out less emissions?
Making the car run lean will (usually) increase the NOX output, which is one of the primary things the smog test is looking for. There are fuel additives that you can buy that are supposed to help reduce your emmisions output for testing, but I've never used them so I can neither confirm or deny their claim (altho some guarantee you will pass of your money back).

I have a feeling that getting the CARB EO number works something like this: the manufacturer will build lets say an l98. And they get it so that it's running cleaner that an l98 in a camaro ran from the factory. Now you're allowed a certain amount of NOX, HC, CO2, CO, etc. from that particular engine. So they put the S/C on it and run it at like 4 pounds of boost and surprise, it just barely makes it under the max specs.

I thought I saw somewhere that NOS had a 50 state legal kit. I mean really, with it installed it has zero effect on emmisions. It's just when you turn it on that the numbers get bad. So in theory, if you tested the car w/o the nitrous on you'd pass no problem. I've heard that all you have to do is take the bottle out of the car and tell the smog tech that the car came that way and that you don't run nitrous on it anymore and they'll pass you. Never tried it tho, so I don't know if it really works or not.

There are a few other ways around CARB. One is to have an address in the middle of nowhere. Basicly if you have a relative or P.O. box in some little town in the mountains you have your DMV registration sent there. The smog laws are stricter in heavily populated areas and more leanient in rural areas. Since the DMV shows you in an outlying area your requirements are less.

Madmax is right, you can have your whole car declared emmisions legal by the smog referee, altho I don't think it requires the tons of cash and friends in high places. It's the same process as getting a motor swap certified. You make an appointment with the local referee's office and take the car to them. They poke around the engine bay and test the emissions. If all is well they issue an underhood sticker so that when you take your car to get smogged the treat it like a 350 and not a 2.8L.

Maybe it's just me (and I"m sure I'll take a lot of crap for this) but I think "newer cars" like 3rd and 4th gen fbodies should be taking advantage of technology. We should be going for engines with EFI and DIS, not double pumper carbs. If you can't live without your holley carb and distributer, get a 1st or 2nd gen. There's a reason they don't test the pre-76 vehicles. I tested our (now departed ) 66 mustang once, the HC and NOX numbers were so high the machine started freaking out. No matter how lean we tried to get the car to run it still maxed out the machine. It's kind of amazing how far technology has come with these engines in such a short amount of time. I think it was audi actually had a car that in Los Angeles had the exhaust cleaner than the outside air.
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Old 06-01-2003, 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by demonchild
if i had that kind of money i wouldnt have a third gen...maybe a first gen...but most likely a ferrari.
What's funny is neither of those have to be tested either. Seems kind of messed up that if you have enough money to buy nice stuff that we decide that the law doesn't have to apply to you either. Wasn't it Rockeffler who said the rich had a responsiblity to take care of those less fortunate? I guess he was never a ferrari owner.
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Old 06-02-2003, 09:27 AM
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why dosent a ferrari have to be tested? o ya, i think that was carnegie...
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Old 06-02-2003, 11:23 AM
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If a car has a small production value, or is a custom or classic, they are usually exempt. I.E., my neighbor has a kit cobra mustang which he does not have to test. It also does not have to pass the crash test safety stuff. I don't remember what the cutoff was in terms of production numbers, I just remember reading that the exotics like ferrari, lamborgini, etc. produced so few cars that they don't bother testing them. I guess the thinking is that there aren't enough of them to have a measurable impact on the enviornement.

And now that I think about it, I think it was carnie, I couldn't remember if it was him or rockefeller. I dunno, it was one of those guys who has buildings named after him in New York.
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Old 06-02-2003, 05:36 PM
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history lesson

lets see how off topic i can be...

carnegie was the "good person". he gave money to the less fortunate, helped the community, and thought that if a man died rich it showed hwo greedy they were. rockefeller was the opposite and said that the people need to work for money. i think the building your thinking of is carnegie hall.

so your saying that kit cars dont need to be tested... . i saw a kit lamborgini for 35,000 dollars. engine comes assembled, rest up to you. i think ill get one of those. o ya...still out of my proce range.
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Old 06-02-2003, 07:04 PM
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Those kit cars always end up costing 10Xs more than you first pay. Case in point, there was a guy who bought the EVO kit for a camaro. He had spent like $35,000 and the car still needed work to be finished and wasn't even in primer yet. I think he was projecting the project to cost like $60K. My neighbor's cobra was like $50K. You should check your local law on kit cars tho. Sometimes they still consider it whatever the donor car was, i.e. camaro, fiero, accord, etc. and so you'd still have to get it smogged. I know with the lambo kits for fieros (at least some of them) you're able to get a new VIN and the car is classified as a "lamborigini replica" and given special status. My neighbor's cobra is excempt because it used a new custom chasis and drivetrain, not one from an existing car. Heck, I don't know if the thing even has a VIN, I should ask him.

The thing is the majority of the pollution is not coming from high performance cars. It coming from soccer moms and their SUVs and broke *** people driving around carburated cars from the 70s and 80s that are running way to rich and from other things like low tire pressure causing poor gas milage. A properly tuned high performance car will run much more efficient and will be better taken car of than some of these other cars. But, I guess we all have to do our part. I just wish these laws weren't SO restrictive, but then again, I feel the same way about speed limits, so......

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Old 06-02-2003, 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by joezero
I just wish these laws were SO restrictive, but then again, I feel the same way about speed limits, so......
huh, you want restrictive laws. we know what you were trying to say. i hope it was i wish these laws werent so restrictive....

hey you know what i just noticed...you can change peoples quotes to say stuff they didnt say...
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Old 06-02-2003, 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by demonchild

hey you know what i just noticed...you can change peoples quotes to say stuff they didnt say...
You can also go back edit your posts to fix spelling errors and make it look like certain people don't know what they're talking about.
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Old 06-03-2003, 01:47 AM
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DAMN YOU
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Old 06-29-2003, 08:29 PM
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OBD3 is supposed to be able to radio in and tell the "authorities" when your car's SES light is on. No escaping it when that sh|t finally comes...

Remeber to vote and NOT vote in enviromental wackos!! Thats why we are where we are today.

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Old 07-01-2003, 11:22 AM
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Federal over state

It just happened in PA. The federal govt threatened to cut funding if they didn't meet clean air act standards. OK fine, so what are they doing?

Pre-OBD-II cars are getting a visual state wide. Cats, AIR pumps, stuff like that. IN the metro areas, the sniffers are used, wiht less of a variance.

OBD-II cars? They just simply plug into your diagnostic socket and read what's going on in there.

And you are emmissions exempt if you drive the car 5,000 miles or less. Ok, so to do what I want I have a second car and things are fine

I think every state has their own website. PA even has a link to the new emissions standards.

If you find a good inspector who does a lot of street rods and such, our cars are fine. Just look in your yellow pages for speed shops and the like, check them out, ask questions and who knows, maybe you'll find someone that
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Old 07-02-2003, 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by joezero

There are a few other ways around CARB. One is to have an address in the middle of nowhere. Basicly if you have a relative or P.O. box in some little town in the mountains you have your DMV registration sent there. The smog laws are stricter in heavily populated areas and more leanient in rural areas. Since the DMV shows you in an outlying area your requirements are less.

Madmax is right, you can have your whole car declared emmisions legal by the smog referee, altho I don't think it requires the tons of cash and friends in high places. It's the same process as getting a motor swap certified. You make an appointment with the local referee's office and take the car to them. They poke around the engine bay and test the emissions. If all is well they issue an underhood sticker so that when you take your car to get smogged the treat it like a 350 and not a 2.8L.
There are only 2 problems with this. First, if you get pulled over and the officer sees your ID and registration addy dont match, chances are he will say something about it. Been there, done that. They have been checking into this sorta thing the last 5 years or so, to prevent it. Also, you cant use a PO box anymore AFAIK, because we used to do that, and the DMV contacted us and said sorry, we need a real address.

The other thing, when you go to the ref, they dont just look over the car, sniff it, and say ok. They look for appropriate emissions legal parts, either OE stuff, or approved aftermarket parts. Some of the guys are really **** about it too. To get the sticker on the car for an engine it didnt come with, along with parts that dont have an EO #, forget it. Doesnt matter what it spits out, they dont really care, all they care about is that its factory and choked up.

Want to know stupid? I have a 66 Mustang. I cant legally add any newer emissions parts to the current engine and have it be legal, like for instance, adding a catalytic converter. The car runs pretty clean really, but I wouldnt mind making it cleaner if they'd let me. It not only violates this stupid states' laws, but federal too. And you wonder why smog stuff is so hard to deal with, you are dealing with people who as a whole have the IQ of a doorknob.
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Old 07-02-2003, 01:55 AM
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Re: Federal over state

Originally posted by 86BirdSE
It just happened in PA. The federal govt threatened to cut funding if they didn't meet clean air act standards.
And there you have it. Watch out guys, its coming.
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Old 07-02-2003, 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by madmax


Want to know stupid? I have a 66 Mustang. I cant legally add any newer emissions parts to the current engine and have it be legal, like for instance, adding a catalytic converter. The car runs pretty clean really, but I wouldnt mind making it cleaner if they'd let me. It not only violates this stupid states' laws, but federal too. And you wonder why smog stuff is so hard to deal with, you are dealing with people who as a whole have the IQ of a doorknob.
I think what it is, is that the people who make the laws don't know the first thing about cars. They don't know how they work, they don't even understand where the pollution comes from. They just know that some of it comes from cars so they'll make laws to take care of it. What they don't realize is that a carbed car that's 40 years old in bad condition is worse than a half dozen late model cars. It would make sense to me if they required that all cars run certain emmisions equipment. That way you'd put a dent in the amount of pollutants from everyone, not just new cars. I want to say it was Audi that did a test in Los Angeles where the catalytic converter and other emmisions equipment was so good that the air at the tailpipe was actually cleaner than the air at the intake. (My engine performance teacher told us that right before he mentioned that he had replaced his catalytic converter with a straight pipe cause it was too much work to actually replace the cat ) I mean, why can't they take the billions of dollars spent on all this emmisions crap and just build a machine to clean the air?

As far as the P.O. to fool the DMV, etc. I haven't done it personally, I just went to school with a guy who did and said he was able to get away with it. But I wouldn't be surprised if they had started to crack down on that. After all, you're taking money from the government.
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Old 07-13-2003, 12:06 AM
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Re: Federal over state

Originally posted by 86BirdSE

And you are emmissions exempt if you drive the car 5,000 miles or less. Ok, so to do what I want I have a second car and things are fine

I think every state has their own website. PA even has a link to the new emissions standards.

Does that mean if you don't drive the car 5,000 miles a year that the car in question is emissions exempt a state or Federal law?

Please explain in detail if possible. I've never heard this before and would like to know more.
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Old 07-13-2003, 02:31 AM
  #43  
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Anyone know the law in California
regarding EGR valves. SDPC has a sweat Vortec intake manafold for our TPI
cars.

Everything looks good until you look at the EGR kit. The info says the manafold
has not been smog certified and to check
local laws. However, the DMV web page
says diddley about smog.

Anybody running the system?

At lest the headers I sent off to Jet-Hot have a C.A.R.B. number.
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Old 07-13-2003, 02:55 AM
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Re: Re: Federal over state

Originally posted by Arctic White 91 RS
Does that mean if you don't drive the car 5,000 miles a year that the car in question is emissions exempt a state or Federal law?

Please explain in detail if possible. I've never heard this before and would like to know more.
It's a state law, and may even just be a regional law at that. Usually you register your car as an antique or collector's car. Then you get a special registration and you aren't required to do the emissions tests. The catch is that you can't drive it all the time. I would contact your local DMV office or maybe the smog referee if you have one in your area. Just ask about special vehicle registrations.
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Old 07-13-2003, 03:06 AM
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Rodacker, are you in Elk Grove, CA? Unfortunatly, as far as I know those vortec kits aren't legal in CA, which really sucks, cause that's probably the route I'd go too. When they say "check local laws" that means that if your law is just a visual inspection, without requiring an E.O. #, then it's legal. But in our great state, in order to make up for the beaches, palm trees, and fine women, we have to have CARB E.O. #'s for EVERYTHING.
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Old 07-13-2003, 01:21 PM
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Thats what I figured.

Yup, California. Forgot there is at least one more Elk Grove in the U.S.A

This state is a real pain in the @$$ when it comes to smog Laws. Wish they would just messure what comes out the tail pipe.
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Old 07-14-2003, 09:59 AM
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I think every state has their own website.

Not every state has emissions testing. I live in Iowa and (Thank G*d) we don't have ANY emissions testing. I removed so many smog devices that my lawn mower would probably have a better chance passing emissions than the RS .

It seems like the requirement for emissions testing is a large city. After testing starts in that city, the emissions testing spreads through the rest of the state (just like cancer).

I feel sorry for you guys that have to put up with all this **** though!! If it was me, I would buy a nice new emmissions complient 4 banger and swap it into the car whenever its time to take the test. Then the rest of the year you could use it for a generator or something. OR, if it was a honda 4 banger, a weed wacker .
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Old 07-15-2003, 12:09 AM
  #48  
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HAHA... I live in Canada, suckers

Sorry, couldn't resist, no testing for me in sight. By the time it would ever have to be tested, it will be considered a classic (25 y/o in Canada, my Z28 is 20 y/o now)

This is just my $0.02, but why does it matter if all of the factory emitions stuff is there? I've heard of more than a few cars (not necisarrily 3rdGens) that have been built to the hilt with aftermarket goodies, like headers, duals, 2 or 3 carbs, etc etc... and had NO factory emmitions componets at all.

Funny thing is... these cars did ALOT better at the sniffer than the factory would ever dream they could. IIRC, one of these cars was a '74 Z28 Camaro that had a 454, 4 speed, 3x2bbl carbs and duals installed in it. It didn't need to be tested, but the onwer tested it just to see what it could do.

It did better than a modern LT1 Camaro could do in factory trim.

THIS is the exact reason I think testing should only be done at the tail pipe. As long as it passes, it shouldn't matter what's in the car.
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Old 07-15-2003, 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by Air_Adam
THIS is the exact reason I think testing should only be done at the tail pipe. As long as it passes, it shouldn't matter what's in the car.
amen to that. however, we have bureaucrats that know nothing about cars, except that they drive them, and they try to make laws keeping the air clean when they do not even understand how air pollution is created!

Im moving out of california as soon as i am done with high school.
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Old 07-16-2003, 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by demonchild
amen to that. however, we have bureaucrats that know nothing about cars, except that they drive them, and they try to make laws keeping the air clean when they do not even understand how air pollution is created!

Im moving out of california as soon as i am done with high school.
The bureaucrats don't even drive their own cars. They did a thing about that on the news up here a few months ago. The state representatives actually each got a towncar to take them to the airport. They were even ariving at the same time, and getting on the same flight, but they couldn't ride together. I guess on was a democrat and the other was a republican


Seriously tho, isn't there a petition or something out there to get them to just allow the tailpipe test and not all this CARB stuff? I know a while back they were trying to pass a law that said that all cars like before 76 or whenever, had to be crushed instead of parted out when they were wrecked in an attempt to limit the number of older cars out there. I want to say it was classic industries that helped get people to send letters, etc. that killed the bill.
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