Just browsing Edelbrocks website, and look whats new for 2004

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/...manifolds.html

performer RPM LS1 intake.

This is shoud open up a few doors.

looks like its still in pre-production, but still something to look foreward to.

 

Why would you want to though? That would be taking a giant step backwards. The stock intake and FI setup gives easily 350 hp at the motor, and still allows you to get 25 mpg on the highway. And, it can be easily tuned with a preditor or similar computer programmer if you want to run a massive lift cam or hog out the ports in the heads. I've heard a few people bring up the carbed LS1 thing before, and it just doesn't make sense to me

No flame intended on your post scottland, I'm just bringing up a few more points

 

Have any idea how easy the LS1 swap would be if you ditched all the electronics?

Only thing... you'd need a way to fire the plugs. Crank trigger, anyone?

 

mad does have a point

 

happy happy joy joy
happy happy joy joy

 

the edelbrock manifold comes with an MSD ignition control to fire the coil packs.

 

With the expense of an LS1, I think I would keep it FI. If I had the money to buy one w/trans, then money is obviously no object to me so a carb would be a consideration. There are a lot of companies offering aftermarket cams, heads, stroker kits, the works. Guys are running 10's with the LS1. Imagine the ease of doing this with a carb? Maybe carb wouldn't be so bad on an LS1.

 

A waste of money in my opinion. If you are going to spend the money and time required for an LS1 swap you might as well do it the right way.

Keep in mind that the cams available for the engine (and the engines themselves) are not designed for carbs.

 

Interesting.

 

neither is the LT4 Hot cam, and it does rather well in carburated motors... ZZ430 for example.

 

Ok, cool idea, but ask yourself... why? Is the need for carbed LS1 set up great enuff to design, develop and tool an LS1 carbed intake? Are there that many people thats just want it to be carbed? Why? Stupid idea personaly and IMO a waste of money. People want the LS1 for its fuel economy, high tech EFI, and relative small packaging... now theres a huge carb on top. I dont see the want in this.

 

no.

theres a large section of people that want it for its power.


add up the price of some 18* SBC heads, intake, exhaust for thoes heads, ect......


then look at the price of a decient LS1.

the diff in fuel economy between a properly setup carb setup and FI is minimal. and the diff in max power output is ZERO.

for someone that wants to go fast, easily the lighter better designed motor with the carb on top is a nice solution.

 

There is no way you are going to get 25 mph or anything close with a carb on a LS1. The fuel injection system on a LS1 is miles ahead of any carb out there.

 

Yea, but picture that intake with injector nozzles plumbed in and a 4 barrell Accel throttle body on top!

 

i can think of tons of reasons to do it.

people that don't want to deal with wiring the LS1, people that aren't good at trouble shooting a computer controlled vehcile, people that are familar with carbs.

a car that orginally came equiped with a carb, all the swap requries is the LS1, the edelbrock kit, and new motor mounts. done. (besides all the little BS).

as mr_dude said, think of the cost of aluminium 18* heads, and an aluminum block, in the stardard GEN1 design. thats going to cost a grip, the block alone is 4 grand.

now look at what a used LS1 costs, 2K or so(maybe more). some people don't want to run fuel injection, i don't.

plus a carburated motor doesn't need to have its prom reprogrammed, carbs are easy to tune.

im not saying this is for everyone,
im not saying "you should go buy this RIGHT when it comes out."
im not saying this is better than FI
i just thought it was kinda cool.

and i don't know where this misconception has come from that carbs can't get good mileage, because they can, and 25mpg is not too unrealistic for a carb.(properly tuned of course)

despite the fact it is old technology, it still is good technology, just not for everyone.

 

stick a t56 behind it and it'll do it without a problem?

whats so magical about fuel injection? its just another way to put fuel in the motor... the engine doesnt care how it gets there..


note i said properly setup btw... i put that in there because some one was going to say what you said.



signed,
the guy who go over 27mpg out of a carbed 400sbc on a 300mi trip.

 

lmao.. as cool as that would look and as much as i hate to say this..... i think the LS1/LS6 intake flows more, and would make more power.

 

I will admit the idea has some novelty but that's where it ends for me. I do not think a carbed LS1 is a cost effective solution. You will have to buy an intake, carb, and a lobottomised ignition system to make it run. Need I mention the problems you have getting your hood to close? All of this expense and the engine will make the less power.

Why reinvent the wheel? All the time and effort spent can be better directed to making the engine run in it's proper form.

 

Look, you dont understand that you will never get the power AND fuel economy of an LS1 without the FI. And what about the rest of the electronics? What about the 2 knock sensors? What about the oil sensor? How is all this gunna work? Its just not gunna work anymore? The O2 sensors?, all the information that goes in and out of that PCM that makes the LS1 what it is? Gone?

Carbs are gone people, let it go. Carbing this block would be taking a huge step backwards. I have never heard of anyone begging for a carbed version of the LS1 at all. I still can not mentaly justify developing a whole new line of intakes for the LS1. You will not be able to get the 350+hp and 25-28mpg out of this motor. The performance aspect the motor and what makes the LS1 so cool is that it can make the power of a big block and the fuel economy of a civic. With the 6spd, some people have gotten 30mpg when they drive economicly. Sorry guys. I see the understanding for one, but I can not justfy why Edelbrock to develop a whole line for it. Not worth it at all. I rather just keep the efi, and enjoy my step into 21st centruy small block then take a huge step back to tuning carbs.

 

I can see the other side I guess, about getting the aluminum heads and block for not as much as it would normally cost in the aftermarket. BUT last I checked, the LS1 is still going for about $4000-5000 depending on if you want harness/computer/sensors.

If you're already going through all the trouble to mount the new drivetrain, it's only one more harness to hook up the computer. The ECM for the ls1 is already weatherproofed too, so you can just tuck it in the engine compartment somewhere.

So, you can do $5000 for the LS1 FI

Or, $4000 non FI
+500 intake (all the other aftermarket LS1 intakes are over $600)
+250 for a decent carb
+100 electric fuel pump
+50 for all the fittings to plumb the fuel lines to the carb
+50 decent air cleaner and filter

+1000 was brought up possibly for a new hood *painted* to fit the tall intake and carb

so $4950 to $5950 for the carb setup, compared to spending an extra day running all the wires for the computer.

Keep in mind that I pulled all these numbers out of my a$$, they're just a ballpark

 

then you just dont get it and shouldnt have to reply in this thread again.

 

Basically i can see this turning into another carb vs. FI debate

i don't think you realize the point of it. it is a cost effective solution to run an aluminum engine block with a carb.

why wouldn't it make the same horsepower? as long as the intake manifold is designed well, which i am sure it will. it should make all the power FI would. and do you have any knowledge, or facts to back up the reason why a carb won't be able to get 26 miles on the highyway(with a 6 speed), or 18 in the city. which is exactly what the LS1 gets..

thats why the aftermarket for carbs is as strong, if not stronger than its ever been?

and next time you are at your local track, atke a notice to see what most of the cars running 11's 10's 9's etc. are running for induction. its most likely a carb. (im not saying carbs are nessicarly better, im just saying they are just as popular as they have ever been.)

so have people w/ 6pds and carbs.

the biggest advancements in the LS1 ISN'T the induction, its the cylinder heads and the coil over plug. which this setup will take advantage of.

 

Ok, you dont understand. The need is not there because people want the LS1 for its high tech efi, and for its massive power. People want the LS1 because its not carbed! Its the first high-tech motor and people want this in there car for that reason... not to tear it all off, make 12 mpg, and maybe 300hp. You guys are taking this as a personal attack you, but its just think about it. Im sure a LS1 kept EFI will make more power, better mpg, and be more reliable then a carbed version.

 

52,000 miles
$3,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2441561045

most LS1's you see for sale, are engine & transmission. not just the motor.

and even 3k is kinda a lot for just the motor

 

no you dont realize that is not worth the agravation of tuning a carb and make the power.



You are not comparing a carbed motor and efi and gunna argue that it can even get NEAR the same mpg.

Umm... carbs seem to be the same... there have been more advancements in EFI then carb. Yes if you want an all out drag car, but your comparing apples to oranges. Ive seen 11, 10 sec LS1's NOT using a carb. And guess what? Most, if not all of them drive to the track and dont get trailored.

BS, and make 350hp? No. again.. apples to oranges.

Um the intake is a very huge part of the LS1 as it makes great low, mid and high range power! How can you say that its not a big advancement!!! the heads yes, coil plug yeah.. but you can not totaly forget abotu the intake. You have got to be kidding me. Look, you guys seem to still be stuck in the carbs. Time to go to the atkins diet... no more carbs.

 

1. most people are turned off on the swap because of its "high tech" EFI

2. carb wont effect power

3. no. people want the LS1 for several reasons. but because its not carbed has never even come up.

4. its not the first high tech motor by anymeans. no matter how you look at it.

5. you will get the same MPG as when it was FI... its the overdrive combined with the engines abilty to be more efficent that gives it the MPG.. not the way the fuel is sprayed into the intake runners.

6 like i said. same power

7. carbed stuff has run without probs for over 100 years. i have yet to see a electric FI system last 50

 

they seem the same because its blaintly obvious you dont know **** about carbs. just shutup unless you have something useful to say.

 

Like i said, your still stuck in carb land. the LS1 is a HUGE mega step up from anything small block before it. Ands its easy to figure it out. If you can spend hrs tuning a carb, you can take some time to plug and play with a LS1. People dont get into an LS1 swap unless they want an EFI block. Same goes for TPI, LT1, but that doesnt seem to stop most people. Put an A4 behind your carbed LS1 and tell me it gets the same mpg, and also have it run 12's down the track ok? You are all making this bigger then it is. Wana go carb? I havent seen any one have any problems making 350hp on a regular carbed motor, why fock around with teh LS1? Tell me how many carbed Lt1 set ups there are? little to none cause people want the power of that engien with the cool factor of EFI. It brings there car into the 21st century.

Yeah, carb'ed cars have run for 100 years with out a single problem at all, flawless performance. EFI has had as many problems if not less then carbs.

 

you.
still.
dont.
get.
it.

lets try this instead.


why would EFI give you more power?

 

NAME ME 1 MAJOR GAIN IN CARBS OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS THAT IS AS BIG OR BIGGER THEN ANYTHING EFI!!! What? fuel lines? BIGGER carbs? bigger jets? what? Nothing, its the same dam carb design thats been around for years. Parts change, design change, but the basic principle of the carb has not changed.

 

No where did i say that, but you get better power and more better fuel economy from EFI. Tell me how you are gunna match that. This is what im getting at. You have yet to put up a good argument other then its "too hard" to wire up a efi set up. Howell and Painless both make easy kits that can retrofit the LS1 into an engine bay.

 

and im not stuck carb land.

im not in EFI land like yuo are either.



im actually just someone that knows the advantages and disadvantages of each and can make a educated decision because of that.

i know carbs
i know EFI... not to the extent of grumpy or anything but def better then you do.


you obviously know nothing of carbs, and you take generalized statements about EFI and start blabbing them like they're written in stone. if you know it, and EFI is so great, tell me WHY. why would it work better? i know... but lets see if you can answer the question without anyone helping you.






---------------------------------------

now onto the last post you made as i typed the above one.


how about booster design.. duck! how about the entire design. see the shape of it IS the design.. same with the parts. they ARE the carb.


now as for how EFI changed.... well...... its still the same basic thing it was in the 50s with mechanical EFI... or to be more upto date, the same crap that was out in the 70s... a elec injector sprays when it gets a elec charge.. big whoop.


answer my questions above.

 

actually, retro fitting it isnt that hard.. atleast for me.. i build electrical devices for a living and write the software for them.


but anyhoo, define "better" power then... and tell me


if you didnt say FI gives you more power, why did you say a carb gives less power then EFI then?

 

no i don't take it as a personal attack, i just hate when people make unjustified claims.

give me some technical reasons why a carbed LS1 won't make the same power? because carbs are old? because you have heard bad things about carbs? you don't have any reasons to say that it will make less power, be less reliable, or get less mileage.

your once again turning this into a carb vs FI debate.

and i don't think edelbrock would be putting all the time and research into it if they didn't think it was gonna sell.

had i not JUST put a new 350HO i would definatly run a carbed LS1. but thats just me

 

i have a 350HO w/ a carb, which is about 330hp, give or take, and i get about 20mpg on the highway, with a 4psd manual, NO OVERDRIVE, so i would imagine that would have to go up with a 6spd

more carb vs FI BS.

as for good reasons why to carb an LS1, say you already have a carb, and an inline fuel pump, and the fuel lines are run, you already have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and don't have to worry about wiring a motor and making everything work right, sounds like a pretty good option.

as opposed to having to buy a new fuel pump that can support the 50 some odd PSI that an LS1 needs, running new fuel lines to the motor, rigging up a throttle cable, wiring the beast... so on and so forth.

also you can get a long block LS1 for much cheaper than a complete LS1, then just find some coil packs at the junkyard, and you are ready to go.

plus, say you want to put hotter cam in the motor,
oh... with the LS1 induction, if you want to take advantage of the cam, you need to have your prom reprogrammed, which is costly, with a carb, this is not an issue.

there are plenty of reasons to do it, just because those reasons don't nessicarly apply to you.

you talk the carburator is the worst invention ever.when it does the exact same thing as FI does, it provides the engine with fuel and air.

i think you just need to do some stduying up on carbs. or get off this vendetta of yours about FI being godly compared to carbs.

just because you don't like carbs doesn't mean that other people don't like them.

and despite the fact that you can't justify carbing an LS1, other people still might want to do it.

look at all the TPI>Carb swaps, although TPI can't compare to the LS1 induction, people don't mind swapping from FI>carb.

 

Yep, you guys are right... im sorry, totaly wrong. Carb it up fellas. Go right ahead. No really, im wrong, your right all the way 100% a carbed LS1 is the way to go. Sorry for making such a stupid argument about it. Oh well, i better go tear of my TPI and throw on a carb caue ill get more power and better fuel economy and cause efi is just too hard for me to understand. Yep. thanks for the lesson guys. Im tired of arguing this subject with you as there is no end and you keep making more stupid arguments as we go along here. Bottom line, the LS1 is a high tech engine and cutting it up with a friggin carb set up would be a disgrace to the motor and a step back in evolution. Dont give me what you do for a living cause frankly I dont care if you build a-bombs. So go right ahead and slap on your carb on that LS1. Post time slips after your done too so I can see the 12 sec pass.

 

you would make more power (TPI is a terrible design) but thats completly besides the point.

I i'm saying is, there is a lot of people out there that would love to have a GEN1 SBC all aluminum engine. fact is, because of the cost, its just not practical, but this manifold will make that possible for many at half the cost.

the people that would buy this, and the people that would swap a regular LS1 into an older car are not looking for the same thing.

my standpoint is 350ish horsepower, all aluminum, and the ease of a carb. for about 3500 bucks.

sounds pretty good to me.

 

LMAO! Really? Been to a racetrack lately?

Just FYI for those that think carbs are so archaic... If your car can run 107 in the 1/4 and put down 32hwy, let me know and maybe your opinion on the benefits of FI I might listen to. I might just take my car to the IM240 test just to see what it runs, and theres no cats on it. I have no doubts it will run clean.

And as for why, well... I cant count on both hands how many LS1 shortblocks I have found for less than $1500. Throw a carb, intake, and something to fire the plugs on there and you have right there quite the budget motor as compared to twice+ that plus no way to completely tune it yourself.

And BTW... this post is now locked because I will not put up with a bunch of useless bickering about who's genitals are bigger because they think they know it all.