I'm going to put a 454 in a third gen. some one told me to use the steering box of of a S 10 truck. what do you think? i don't really like power steering it makes to much clutter on the motor and i like to change things often cams heads and so on-also was told i could run with out the power booster- maybe just full carbon brake pads-or change to a small bore master cylinder. what i ponder now is if to cut the fire wall and move the motor back some?- a guy i know moved his motor back- his carb. started at the end of his windshield. what do you think is it much % gain with the motor moved back? then i wanted to ask about tubs- wide wheels- rear end i think could be a dana from a 3/4 ton ford- just to give some idea of what i have in mind,
But my main question is it worth it to move the motor back? and if so how far back?

 

some things i forgot to say- this is low dollar and home made.
the 454 is made in 1974 worn very little- i just don't know if moving it back is worth the work and problems- want to up grade to better things little by little as i get the money,like aluminum heads but thats just on the wish list lol. but i don't want to dump all my money in this one motor/ car. coz i have a berlinetta that I'm itching to put a 400 or 406 sb in- have 2 carbs down here in the basement with me that i think would look good on the 454- so that could be a problem if i set the motor back more than a little.

 

well if it's low dollar....don't even bother thinking about setting the engine back.

I dropped my 454 on the factory 305 mounts. I ran exhaust manifolds, which made it cheaper and easy to hook up to the existing exhaust system.

It's a pretty straightforward swap. I had mine in and running in 3 evenings after work.

I did also run an S10 steering box...made life a whole lot easier.

 

If you plan on doing alot of wrenching under the hood, swapping the power brake set-up for an aftermarket manual unit or a more cost effective maunal S-10 unit will save you headaches in the future, especially with a BBC since it's gonna be snug anyways. Getting high rise vavle covers on and off will be ALOT easier since your not fighting for the same space. As far as moving the engine back it's kinda of a catch 22. You wont notice any ET or mph gains so to speak since your still dealing with the same overall weight regardless of what you do. What will improve is how the chais works since you will be trying to equalize the weight distribution and trying to get as close to a 50/50 ratio as you can. This will help alot with how the car trasfers and plants the weight, plus getting adding in the traction department since the weight will be moved back towards the rear of the car. Obviously the trade off is labor/cost since there will be a alot of fabrication to do this as well as math. As long as your doing it, dont settle for "this will be okay or better than before" try to get it 50/50 as close as possible becasue the same amount of work will be needed if you take it back 1" or 3 ". Then you run back into the problem of working of the car again and having to deal with clearance issues, custom headers and access to plugs, removing/installing vavle covers, setting lash, etc...
If this is project "cheap" keep it simple since you will easily overrun the buget with a "good idea" Been there done that

 

Out of curiousity - what did the manifolds you used come out of?

 

mostly all i know about this 454 is it was made in 1974 and had a auto trans. the motor was not in a car when i got it.

 

www.mortec.com

you can thank me later

 

not too sure what the manifolds were out of as I bought them off a guy who had them rotting away in his garage.

When I sold them I checked the casting numbers and they said "1976 Police, nodular iron". My guess is they would have been off a Suburban or Truck.

When I got them, I cut the air lines off, welded the fitting shut, then threw them in the engine bay. I had to massage the passenger side part of the firewall a bit due to the exit of the manifold. Otherwise they fit great.

They only ran me $50 CDN.....as opposed to the Hooker swap headers which were close to $900 Canadian at the time.

 

For a low budget use the stock mounts. It's not worth it to move it back, plus it would be really exspensive for custom parts. An S10 steering box will work fine. You can keep power brakes with a big block, but you can convert to a manual setup if you really want to (I would keep power brakes for a street driven car). You'll need to use short valve covers if you want to keep your wiper motor, tall covers will hit it.

 

on the power brakes, one like member IHI say fighting over the same space that is one factor to consider, but maybe not the worst one, as some of the racing cams say they will not operate power brakes do to not enough VAC. saw a guy with a vacuum can on his fender he say it helps a little, as for i would rather the brakes feel the same, not some times push easy and some times push hard, that brake booster does make the master cylinder stick out, i have drive a caprice with the power booster took off, a little hard but it was a heavy car and did not have full carbon brake pads, so brakes are still up in the air,
hope more respond, and thanks to all it is a big help.
and that is a very nice web site thanks again.

 

You're going to have to have a pretty large cam to worry about not having enough vacumn. There's guys around here running 240+ duration cams in small blocks (383s) and they're power brakes work fine.

 

the one cam i was looking at was advertised duration 290 int. and 292exh
do you think that is the wrong cam to use with solid lifters.
and does any one here drive now with out power brakes ?

 

What's the duration at .050" on that cam?

 

Dont move the engine back. I just put my 454 in last week. You can use the HEI and not pound in the firewall. You can keep your power brakes fine if you use a canisster, the stock one will work great. You can use tall valve covers and your wiper motor as mine fits perfect. Any car exhuast manifolds will fit and truck ones you may have to modify a little bit. I use my power steering and it all fits in there great. No clerence porblems what so ever. I will get a picture up as soon as i fully get the car finished.

 

My truck is a 4000lbs beast with no power brakes. It stops fine with out them. If you just discommect the line it would suck but if you switch to a non assist box it would be fine.

 

When I set my car up for a BBC, I lowered the front of the engine until it practically touched the center link, raised the rear of the trans as high as practical within the tunnel, and moved everything back until the distributor (MSD billet with a cap-adapt) nearly touched the firewall. I had to dimple the firewall in the area where the rear of the left cylinder head is, but was able to move everything back nearly 2 inches. This greatly optimized the front/rear weight balance of the car (mine is 58/42), which really helps weight transfer to gain much needed traction to help decrease your 60 ft. times and ET, and in my case, better driveline angles, since my car has been back-halved with 14x32 rear tires (rear end is tucked up higher within the chassis). It also makes for a lot more room on the front of the engine for a blower drive. You can lower the engine even more yet in the front if you reverse the center link, but your bump steer will have to be re-established (this is what Super Stock chassis builders do on the 3rd gens). Another big advantage is much improved hood to engine clearance, for single carb/high rise intake/air cleaner w/stock hood applications. Then again, in your case (being a low-buck set-up), unless you have a welder and a lot of spare time, it may not be worth it to you, because new engine mounts, custom exhaust system, trans crossmember, and torque arm/mounts will all need to be fab'd or modified to make it all work.

I have a manual box (Saginaw 122 series) in my car also. Almost any manual box from any GM mid-full sized car or truck made from the mid '60's on up (Saginaw 122 and 525 series boxes) will bolt right on. While the S-10 box is a very convenient/popular swap for our cars (since they're quite easy to find), the pitman arm is not of the correct length, and it will upset your steering geometry, although it seems to work satisfactorily for several members here. Ideally, you should get a pitman arm from a 1982 f-car (not TA or Z28) which used the 605 series PS box, if you can find one.

I also have a manual brake conversion on my car, using the Wilwood Mopar style MC. The key to making it work effectively is to raise the fulcrum point (where the MC pushrod attaches) on the brake "lever". This puts it closer to the pivot point which will multiply the force being applied to the MC. An adapter plate needs to be made to raise the MC (roughly the same amount as the fulcrum point on the brake lever), and to make it able to bolt on to the firewall. Numerous threads on this conversion can be found in the Suspension / Chassis / Brakes section. A neat thing about the Mopar MC is that the lines attach to the side opposite of the engine, which makes for additional working clearance and access to your engine.

 

sounds right on the money MCM. lowering the center link. like that idea alot. and using a different master cylinder to get the brake lines out of the way.killer idea. it seems the brake lines on third gens are put right in the way. thanks to every one for writing in.