Opinions wanted:
Right now i have an L03 which needs to go, so i am gonna swap in a350 eventually.
However, who wants a badass 350 when u have a lameass
4-spd auto behind it? Therefore i want to also swap in a T56.
Which do u fellas think i should do first? I am kinda leaning toward the tranny swap first. I figure that i would need a higher stall convertor if i did the engine first, which would be wasted once i put in the T56.
Thanks.

 

Do a search on everything required for a T56 swap, more or less just a Auto/Standard swap.

Then you way out the options for what you want to do first. I'd think the engine would be first in my book. Would be more expensive, but you'd be able to benefit from having it much sooner. Only thing a t56 might do is increase MPG by a couple, allow you to shift manually and be a PITA to install while not really giving you much more performance but maybe a couple tenths...

Your choice though, but depending on the engine I'd probably stay auto. A 10 second car with a Reverse manual valve body auto is pretty fun too.

 

T56...
its the more reliable approch. esp if you put a big motor infront of the auto and have to drive it for awhile. this is the way im going right now.... by doing this, im beefing up the drive train for later, and adding more fun... sure power is alot of fun, but so is rowing thru the gears... it'll give ya a lil more to keep you entertained as you save for that motor build up.

 

I understand that putting a T56 behind a 305 wont get me much right now. But i know im gonna trash my stock 700r4 real quickly with the new engine. Plus I can run bigger rear end gears with the 6 speed.

 

The T56 is going to uncover other weaknesses in your drivetrain. Look at suspect motor mounts, tranny mounts, beefing up the rear end, suddenly needing subframe connectors, etc. That extra shock load has a way of dreadging up the demons....darn fun to row 'em though!

 

I spent the money and did the tremec t-56 swap and i don't regret one bit. if you plan to do hi-po 350 swap, i can't think of a better street/strip tranny to put behind it. no sense in wasting money on a new stall convtr just to throw it out 6 months later, automatics are so boring anyway. i've seen more people doing this swap lately, but it is still unique because you don't see it all over the place. it's a great touch to a totally custom ride and if your like me and have 3 other friends with third gens, it helps you stand out a little.

i spent the money and did the auto to manual swap the right and easy way. get the crossmember, torque arm and drive shaft from Spohn, get a nice clutch kit, get the clutch fork, pivot ball, hydraulic assembly and the needle roller pilot bearing from GM (yes they actually still have it!) the hydraulic set up comes pre bled and fully assembled, resevior, master, slave and all the lines in between. (maybe $140 for all the GM stuff) get the pedal assembly, T-5 bell housing and shifter plate from junkyards or thirdgen classifieds...

the only remote problem i had with the swap was with the speedo. vehicle speed sensor (VSS) any t-5 electric VSS up to '89 will work with any car up to '89 with electric VSS. just take the little gear out of you automatic VSS and stick in the t-5 VSS, bolt it onto the tranny and your good. '90-'92 car use a magnetic VSS same fix. reverse lights plug right in. fill it up with dexron III, adjust the torque arm and go bang some gears! a nice finishing touch is a forth gen console, four cup holders, little things make a big difference. all in all a great swap.

 

cutting holes in the car is pretty easy too.

 

hey Mike88, about how much did the entire swap cost you? I am in the same predicament with the lo3 situation and I want a manual almost as bad as a winning lottery ticket. Is it something that someone with limited tranny knowledge could install in a couple of days? Would it be much slower in acceleration with the 2.73's I have out back?

 

With a 6 speed, i dont think i would go less than 3.73's.

 

Well I don't plan on keeping my 2.73's, but will probably put some 4.10's in. I was just wondering if my car would be anymore sluggish until I got a rear end setup.

 

the solution is to use a new trans mount when you swap it, and put new motor mounts in with the new motor...... athough you should be doing that anyway...

and you dont suddenly need SFCs.. even stock cars should have em...



you do have the shock loading if you dump the clutch, but the 10bolt pretty much wont blow chunks until you start putting sticky rubber on it.

 

305RSIc the total price of the swap was $3800 thats with mostly brand new stuff. I got the tranny and the Spohn stuff from Spohn for $3300, i went and picked up, the only shipping i had to pay was from tremec to spohn crate fee.

I thought the swap was easy and it was the first auto to manual swap i had done start to finish, i had helped a friend on an auto to manual swap before but missed a few parts. With the help of a mechanically inclined friend it is possible to complete in a weekend.

power loss to the rear wheels is about 22-23% with an automatic and about 18% with a manual. but still nothing will beat an automatic off the line. but with the power you have freed up and if you get a adjustable torque arm it should be about the same. with 2.73s it may be a little slugish but not much i would guess. i have 3.27s and the car feels faster in all respects. 3.73s or 4.10s would be an absolute kick in the pants. 3.73 12 bolt is my next mod.

 

Thanks Mike88, that helps to put it into prespective. So the cost would go down if I find a decent used T56. I looked at the tech article about auto to manual swap. Is there anything you can see from that article parts wise that you I would need for a T56 that isn't listed since they did a swap to a T5? What year T56 would be the best to try and get? I have heard that the later years are better, but honestly haven't heard why. So a little info on this would help as well.

 

Only 4k?

Why didnt you just buy a nice 4 speed thatll handle upwards of 800hp or something. The extra gears are nice, but is it really worth the extra couple grand?

To each their own, your money.

 

I am reminded of an interesting technique Euro's used to use. Go with a trans that has a low gear and keep your high gear in the rear end for gas mileage. A Richmond 4 or 5 speed would cost $1400 and $1800 respectively and use a standard bellhousing. Couple that with a 3:00 gear and you'd get decent mileage. I believe the Richmonds have a bigger torque capability, also. This combo is probably hell on your ring and pinion but it is being done all the time.

 

if you what i have build th350 w/ 3500 10" stall and the spohn TA and x-member
and lokar kickdown cable.

 

only 4 k what?


without shopping around and paying top prices for a "package" a T56 setup with conversion crossmember is $1800... toss in a new clutch and its still around 2k. not 4.



personally though, i would NEVER spend that much on a T56.... that would be foolish... my swap parts cost $1200, and thats with a new clutch and a GM hurst shifter.(i really like that shifter)


trans mounts are $12

SFCs are $10 if you can do it yourself $180 if yuo have to buy them

poly motor mounts are around $35 last time i checked... could be off on that though, i dont buy motor mounts all the time.



what was 4k?

 

some of my friends said they would never spend that much money on the swap too. then i let them drive my car and they changed their minds.
I spent the money I spent, and got a brand new tremec trans, race quality x-member and torque arm, and a practically indestructable drive shaft because i plan on putting an engine in the car that puts me in the mid to low 12s going through the traps. to me it seems foolish to half *** the swap with used or modified parts that will just have to be replaced later in order to achieve my goals.
I watch two good friends of mine go through used t-5s like a Demon carb goes through gas. another friend with a 2002 WS6 T/A has already gone through a t56 and a 10 bolt rear. and that was all factory stuff. generally speaking most people with 4th gens beat the **** out of them. i wasn't willing to run the risk of dropping a new engine in and a few months later looking for another trans.

 

Mike88, what are the gears in your trans? Do the Tremecs some with the doubt OD??? I know the Richmonds don't and that's the only aftermarket brand I have seen as of yet.

 

Also, could I reuse my old drive shaft if I switched to a T56 from a 700R4? What kind of torque arm could could I use with the T56?

 

if you stick to a factory T56, yes. if you goto the "aftermarket" T56, you have to shorten it.


then again, if you rebuilt or got a factory T56 rebuilt, it would be just as strong as the "aftermarket" one, be a bolt in, and still cheaper then 4k..... and if you've ever seen the aftermarket bolt in crossmembers for the T56, you wouldnt ever have 2nd thoughts about their strength..




im still not seeing his 4k... even when you add in the rebuild, a aftermarket driveshaft, and TQ arm upgrade, but whatever...

i just get sick of people telling me how everything has to be new to work.

 

Not necessarily. Depends which aftermarket T56 your talking about. D & D Performance sells a Viper T56 that has been converted for GM use. It has a bigger stouter output shaft, a stronger gear set, and a steel HD 3-4 shift fork. It sells for $2500 and is rated a full 100 ft/lbs more than stock or Tremec T56's (450 to 550 ft/lbs). The stocker can be modified to accept most of the Viper parts but with just the output shaft conversion being $800...you can see how quickly the rebuild would add up.

http://www.ddperformance.com/chevy.htm

 

steel fork is $60.

 

case is the same BTW.

 

My point is if you feel you MUST have the torque capability, you could approach $4k on a T56 swap. I try to realisticly choose parts within my budget. I would not spend $4000 on a T56 swap simply because I don't have the money....but I might if I had the money and the need for one. I waited a long time to find a low mileage pristine T56 that I was sure wasn't abused. Paid $600 + some performance parts the seller needed. I don't have a problem using used parts but can't belittle a guy for spending the big dollars 'cause I would if I could.

 

Yeah, I am wanting to find a used one and get it rebuilt. If it has low mileage and I know wasn't abused then I might just throw it in regardless. All things considered, I would love to stay under around 2500 for the entire swap, so I definitely don't mind using used parts. I just want the gears!

 

I was being extremely sarcastic. 4k is unreasonably high. With 4k dollars I could build an engine with juice that would power a car to 10's. I was wondering why spend all this money to get a transmission that will soon break before a nice Richmond or what have you.

Also most people Ive seen do this swap spend under 2k dollars including a new clutch. But i dunno if they are using a new/used or rebuilt, probably used, but still much cheaper then new.

 

Do i need to get a new flywheel (im goin from 700r4)?
Also, is the thirdgen resource a good way to go? It seems like a complete package which is good, but some parts like the clutch and possibly the flywheel, i wont be using.

 

i was interested in wondering if that was a good option to go with also, i would believe it is if you've got the loot. i did see someone else comment that they got the t-56 from a local junkyard for $1000 after selling his core for 300 so roughly 1300 from a junk yard for the whole setup removed your self would be a deal, and a whole bunch of work, i suppose it depends on if the junkyard knows what the setup is worth, either way it's up to your own skill to make it work correctly...