I need some advice here! My girlfriend's father has a 350 rocket, 400 tranny and a rear end in his back yard that he is willing to give me for free...but me and my father were gonna buy a new 305 engine from Advanced Auto Parts bored over .30 for around 900 bucks..What would be better to do? I know people around here don't like the buick motors, but I wanna know whats gonna be better. And, if anyone knows, how hard is it to put the engine in and the tranny from a buick into my camaro? Thanks for any help!

 

350 Rocket is an Olds motor.... not a Buick. Its probably not worth all the work it would take to make it fit. I'd avoid that 305 too... I've heard bad things about Advance engines.

Just find a healthy junkyard 350 and do what it needs, drop it in and you'll be alot happier.

 

I think they have the same bolt pattern, and if he's giving a tranny that works with it your deffenetly fine.

You are going to have to check on the motor mounts, but I think they are the same also.

You'll have to modify the tranny to connect to the torque arm, this may and probably will be the hardest part.

The 350 rocket is the best of the GM 350s though, It has a bigger bore, and a shorter stroke than chevy 350s, and they usually made more HP. If the engine is good, I'D use the rocket block.

DON'T waste 900 bucks on a 305. JEGS sells brand new good wrench 350s W/ four bolt mains, and I think 260 HP....for $1300 bucks+ around $200 for crate motor shipping. The extra 600 is SOOO worth it.

Getting ajunkyard 350, and giving it what it needs to run good is an excellent Idea, and could easily be the cheapest/best/easiest way to go

 

Uh, the OLD's rocket motor will have a BOP bellhousing, so a chevy transmission will not work. Its not worth all the work for just a 350, when you can just bolt in a chevy 350 and make more power cheaper.

 

wasn't sure about bolt pattern, And I agree with the power cheaper thing, but this engine is free, If he's not planning on doing anything else to it this would be cheaper. If you plan on building the motor though, SBC! SBC! SBC!

 

I could be wrong; but I bet you'll spend more money putting that "free" turd in there that doesn't fit, than you would properly replacing the motor that's there with the right kind. I also think you'll find that a typical "free" Olds 350 will have little if any more power than a typical 305.

You'll probably also find that the trans is a Turbo 350, not a 400. Look at the pan. If it's square, it's a 350. If it's shaped like Texas or like an oven mitt, it's a 400. If it's a weird shape and looks like it has 2 sections, it's a 200-4R, and it's probably not a 350, but rather a 307 (looks the same from the outside). Yuck.

No doubt someone will come along and tell you all about how they saw an Olds 350 once that put out some good power; but I doubt that a "free" motor laying in somebody's back yard will turn out to be a Hurst Olds W30 or something. Most likely it's some pretty ordinary 150 HP smogger sedan motor.

Get a Chevy 350 instead of a 305; and forget the "free" motor that won't fit. If you're looking for "cheap", that isn't it.

 

Gotta agree with RB as usual. Whereas the olds motor is a good motor, its not good for your car. Many reasons for this. One would obviously have to be the fact that you would have to change everything exactly backasswards. Ever look at the bottom of an olds engine, **** is on the wrong side compared to a chevy 350. also, exhaust? Good luck finding f body headers that fit an olds engine. And besides, no free engine is gonna make the kind of power that you want. I would be willing to bet that the 260hp crate makes more than that engine the way it sits. Potential is a whole nother story though. But can you afford fast olds parts? I used to have one man, and everything is about twice as much. Intakes, heads, you name it. it cost a lot. They are nice though. And its gonna cost money to get that tranny in too. Torque arm mounts, driveshaft work. Just forget about the olds and go get yourseld a 350. Dont waste your money buying an underpowered 305 crate, that's just not worth it.

 

thanks you all for your help, you all kick a§§

 

you could just send that olds motor down here, since no one seems to want it. i know plenty of guys that are making obnoxious amounts of power out of those things.

 

You guys dog the 350 rocket like its the biggest crap to hit the street! lol. Seriously though the SBC would be a easier better way to go, but the rocket block is a great motor. But its a great motor for what they came in, being a Cutlass. I do agree, I wouldn't try to stuff a Olds motor in there, probably just end up being a headache.

 

Always been an olds guy personally. but I love my camaro. I agree with everyone, that its not worth it to put the olds motor in, however i just felt like bitch*ng about something else. It always makes me mad when I see a nice old cutlass cruising the street with a sbc in it. Its ridiculous. I have told many the people that I think it was the single worst thing they could have done to the car.

 

Funny how every Olds motor that ever existed is all of a sudden a "Rocket". And every used Chevy 350 came from either a Vette or a police car too.

Yerbasic Olds 350 is a low-perf sedan smogger turd. In their heyday, it was the bottom-feeder motor. The cars that people wanted enough power in to where they could pull out into traffic without fear of getting run over, they got a 455. They are pigs in stock form, almost universally. I know someone will say something like "well yeah but what about the Hurst Olds W30?" OK sure; but is that what's laying in somebody's back yard? or is it something that has so little value that nobosy has bothered to scrape it up and haul it off in all these years?

Sure, it can be rebuilt, and all the parts $$replaced$$ that are responsible for its pitiful performance; especially the heads. It's still an Olds motor though. Big, heavy, bulky, and stuck with those stoooopid chinesium "bridge" things between the rocker arms that always break. It can make decent power, but I can't feature "obnoxious" power out of it; especially not as cheap as you can get the same amount of power out of a Chevy 350.

My advice here is the same as it always is for people in this situation. Swapping a motor is EXPENSIVE all by itself. Building any kind of motor besides a SBC or SBF is EXPENSIVE. Smogger sedan motors out of barges from the 70s are WEAK and will surely lead to disappointment if their inherent low compression, poor flowing heads, sucky intakes, etc. are not addressed. If you're the type of guy that has had Olds or Buick or whatever all his life, knows them inside out, has a stash of go-fast goodies for them, knows their details like the back of his hand so that "trial and error" has the fewest possible trials and errors, has connections to get parts, etc. etc. etc., then a swap is realistic for you. But if you've just got some old thing laying off by the creek in your grandpa's back 40 that came out of his sedan that got wrecked back in 86, and you're looking for "cheap" "performance", that isn't the way to get there. That's the WRONG reason to do a swap of this sort.

Look at it a different way: a set of heads is $1000; a well-built short block with nothing but good machine work on stock parts is $1500 up; headers and other exhaust parts will be $500 or more usually; and so on. What the hell difference does a $150 core make? How does that make it so much cheaper that it's worth the hassle?

 

pretty much how i feel. though, not all 350 olds motors were turds.lol. I agree though, it seems like every kid i see with a oldsmobile (with the olds engine still in it) tells me that it is a 403 rocket or a 350 rocket. Its kinda funny. We were in another thread and i think it was five7kid, said that there were more corvette motors and heads than there were corvettes, because of the people talk.

 

Kinda off-topic, but just for future reference guys a rocket motor has ten valve cover bolts.

 

The Chevy 350 is a time proven engine, but there are others. I wouldn't put a sbc 350 in anything I own just because EVERYONE has one. Generic engine, generic performance.

 

I'd just like to know where the hell you guys got the idea that a Chevy 350 is more powerful than an Olds 350.

An Olds 350 is a torque-monster and a '68 - '71 absolutely kicks ***. They are NOT "expensive" to get performance out of (although everything costs more than a Chevy). They respond to cam, intake, and exhaust mods just like any Chevy 350 does. I'd love to see a "Rocket" engine in a 3rd-gen.

Doubters should check out: http://www.mondellotwister.com/

 

flamebait.

 

Just because the engine wasn't made by chevy, doesn't mena it's crap. Belive it or not, there are other makes out there that are jsut as good. He wwants to be different, use what what could a (uh oh, here it comes) WOW! factor . Who's to say the he wont be able to put that motor in, nicely moderinezed fro power for the price of the every Tom & Dick & Harry chevy motor?

 

ok. I'm sure that Its not me thats being addressed, because I am all in favor of olds engines. Just not in a third gen. Its not cost effective vs a SBC. YEs with similar mods, it will make more power. Its just gonna cost more.

 

Yes, the expense would be for making it work in a third-gen, not for making the engine "performance oriented". I personally wouldn't want to deal with it but would love to see someone accomplish it. I think the exhaust system would be one of the greatest obsticals. The B.O.P. tranny and torque-arm issue was already mentioned...

 

The transmision bolt pattern is not the same as a chevy motor. altough some 2004Rs had a pattern that allowed them to be bolted to BOP motors and chevy motors.

The motor mounts are not the same.

What did it come out of? Run the casting numbers, they are right behind the dipstick tube. Every Olds 350 was not a "Rocket" most people will just call a Olds 350 a 350 Rocket.

 

Sorry for the double post, not the dipstick tube, I meant the oil filler neck.

 

This shows your lack of knowledge in regards to Olds. Run as far and fast as you can from Mondello and any of his products. Back in the day his name was good, now the company is run by a different fellow. And by run I mean run into the ground with poor products and poorer service.









And this is for everyone else. The term Rocket was a marketing term just like the bowtie or rat moniker. It does not make the engine special and is not dependant on the number of valve cover bolts. Technically, all olds engies are rockets as the name was based upon their design. The 68-72 350's are the best for performance and the 68-76 350's all have the stronger solid main web block.

It is not difficult at all to make good power out of an early engine with the heads that came on it. Even the smogger 403's can move a car out of it's own way quite nicely with a simple cam/intake/headers swap.

If you are serious about making power with an olds motor pm me, I'll hit you up with links to the sites where the big dogs are.





"Any ******* can build a chevy, it takes a real man to build an olds"

 

All I run are olds/buick engines. No problems fitting them in 3rd gens. I put an FYI thread about the ones I did in Engine Swap. It takes alot less to get good power from an olds than a chevy. You spend more when you get to hi-end aftermarket stuff. All you need is a good cam, and some pre-71 heads for killer power. Lots of parts out there for cheap.

DARE TO BE DIFFERENT!!!!


p.s. use a trans adapter for the 700r4, or a bellhousing from Mcleod to run the t-5 behind it.

 

My advise to you in this situation would be this:

Confirm that you are free to do whatever you want with the engine and tranny. If so, sell it and use the money for a chevy 350. OR, try to swap it for a sbc 350, or use it as a part payment for a rebuilt sbc 350.

If you had some money to spend on this to start with, you could perhaps then afford a 383 sbc shortblock, who would slip soo nicely into your car, no hassle, no nothing, just pure affordable and easy power.

Just make sure you get the $'s worth from this, and it'll be grand.

 

wow, this topic still gets replies? We've already put a new engine in my camaro and blew it up..look it up lol

 

I guess one finds alot of old post without noticing when doing a search one are frequently told to do.

 

I kinda got a chuckle outta this one.

The "rocket" blocks, are the ultimate in smallblocks. A built up rocket block will spank any 350, hands down.

Rocket blocks run a 9.325" deck stock. (.300 taller than SBC).

Anyone who claims a SBC is better than a rocket, hasn't been introduced to a 468 cid rocket yet.

Rocket blocks will accept sbc: cranks, rods, heads, and cams.

The timing set on a rocket block is almost identical to a roller-motor sbc timing set.

-- Joe

 

Believe it or not, the "rocket" block that you just referred to is an oldsmobile modified sbc. You could buy them from gm performance parts a few years ago, but I'm not sure today. The gm performance "rocket block" is not the same as an olds rocket engine which was their engine from 1949 - 1976. After that, olds didn't call them rockets anymore but the olds engine family didn't die until the final 307 olds from 1990 in gm b-body wagons. The gm performance parts "rocket" block was a small block chevrolet with a similar cam/crank centerline to a big block chevy and an increased deck height to make up for it. It cam with an oldsmobile rocket emblem cast into the side of the block and a dual transmission bolt pattern for both the chevy and b-o-p transmissions.

 

That's very interesting! Does this mean that the engine is a good find afterall? Almost as finding a free dart or motown block?

If you could use alot of these stock parts, and only need bearings, pistons gaskets and perhaps engine mount's in oldsmobile style, then one could perhaps build a real big smallblock for a decent amount....

This sounds cool, tell us more!

 

Gm performance parts "rocket" blocks are not easy to find second hand. They are, however, very good to start with if you find one for a small block chevy build. They use chevy motor mounts so its not a problem to stick them in most projects. Yes, you can bore and stroke the heck out of 'em. The likelihood of actually finding one is pretty much slim to none, though.

 

someone here on TGO has a rocker engine in his Z28 .. cant remember his screen name ..

I remember a long time a go, I found 2 rocket engines for sell here lol , im still trying to forget the price they were going for

The rocket block is the best block yet according to the Lingenfelter book, Id definately look for one when I have the storage space.

 

2 completely different things.

Oldsmobile first used the "Rocket" trademark on a motor in around 1949 or thereabouts. They used it for all their motors up until about the late 60s or so; in fact, the Olds logo through the 60s, was in fact a stylized V2 rocket. Go to http://www.oldsmobile.com/olds/enthusiasts/index.html and click on "History"; look at the 40s, then the 60s.

Since GM released the "rocket" block for factory-sponsored competition that had specific block requirements, the "rocket" name has been resurrected by people who don't know what it means, and is applied to every Olds V8 they see. Kind of like the "WS6" thing; for nearly 20 years, these cars had that option available, and nobody ever mentioned it by name! Yet now that a vehicle has been released with that on a trim package, everybody wants to claim it.... even though 5 years ago they themselves would have yawned if somebody had tried to tell them that some car was "special" because it had it.

You're NOT going to find a "Rocket block" laying around in the junkyard, you can believe that. And conversely, some smooger pig sedan motor out of a grandma car from the 70s, isn't going to revolutionize automotive design as we know it by being graunched into one of these cars, just because somenody calls it a "rocket" motor.

Forget the "rocket" crap; and look at the motor you really want to use. Olds motors are just like Chevy ones in that there is a huge range of them, from very very weak and lame, to the good ones like the old 442 motors. And like Chevy motors, their qualities become greatly exaggerated by sellers; and the crap ones outnumber the good ones, by hundreds to one.