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Old Feb 22, 2005 | 11:19 AM
  #1  
305PhoenixAm's Avatar
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From: Sierra Vista, AZ
Car: 85 Trans Am
Engine: 383 TPI (Yes, TPI. Not for long though)
Transmission: 700r4
Repost- unanswered 383 combo questions

I posted this in the engine forum with no luck. Maybe someone in this forum could help. I'd appreciate it.
Repost-
I tried to do as much research as possible, but I'm still left in the dark as to a few little things before I go buying the remaining parts I need for my build. First off, here's what I have so far:

Scat 3.75 crank
Scat 5.7 rods
Claimer Flat tops
Melling HV pump
Dart 200cc Iron Eagles; 2.02/1.6 valves.
All accessories needed
I'm going to buy a modified/painted LT1 intake from millican with the fuel rails and all. As I understand that doesn't come with the Tstat but thats not a problem now.

A couple things are mismatched, but it is mostly because of the deals I found on part prices. I just need an engine to put in the car because right now its not drivable, and I'm only 17 making like 150 a paycheck so I can't really afford to sacrifice much money. If anyone could answer any of these questions I'd appreciate it.

On to the concerns-
1. First, and most important as of now- The cam I got with the kit is a hydraulic flat. 224/234@.050" .465/.488 with 1.5 rockers. I plugged these numbers into Desktop Dyno and got a decent number..460hp@6000. This isn't really what I'm looking for though. I want the power peak at about 5500, with loads of low end torque. This one makes around 370 ft/lb@2000.
I'm looking for another cam, and the best one about now seems to be a Crane Energizer; 1000052..120 bucks, 216/216@0.50, .454/.454 w/1.5s. This one gives me 440hp@5500, with more than 400 ft/lb low end at about 2000. (I know these numbers are very optimistic, but I figure the bigger the DD, the bigger in real life.) This is what I'm really looking for, but I'm wondering if anyone has any other suggestions? The duration seems really small, but with any bigger duration numbers DD2000 says it starts to look pretty bad. I need opinions here.


2. With the flat tops and 64cc heads, even with a .060+ (I believe..cant remember. the thickest I could find) head gasket the compression is up to 11:1. This doesn't really seem practical for the situation, but I've been reading that I could have my calculations wrong. As far as I know, the block has never been decked before, but I don't know what the clearance is until I begin the buildup of the rotating assembly this weekend. Am I missing something here? I don't want to be knocking on 91 octane. I'm going to polish the combustion chambers, maybe that'll help a little, but I need other options.

3. The LT1 intake requires a small HEI distributor from 87+, but as my car is an 85 I don't have that. My idea of HEI and remote coil is still a little foggy- If I were to buy an 87+ distributor and an aftermarket coil, would it hook up easily to the other car's stock components? If not, what else would need to be replaced?

4. I heard that I should be looking for SVO injectors, but I'm not sure what poundage I should be looking for to fit the needs of the engine...Well.... ...?

5. Chip. The 383 isn't going to like the 305's brain. What's the best place to go to? I saw that Millican makes em. Any good? (No, I don't have enough money to do my own. Not now anyway.)

I think theres more but this is all for now. I know its a lot but I don't want to become another horror story.

Anyway, thanks for any help you can give, guys.
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Old Feb 22, 2005 | 11:52 AM
  #2  
RB83L69's Avatar
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From: Loveland, OH, US
Car: 4
Engine: 6
Transmission: 5
If the block hasn't been decked, then the pistons are .025" in the hole, or more. If the pistons have the typical lowered compression height, they're even farther down than that.

I come up with 10.4:1 using the numbers for flat-tops with 4 valve reliefs (6cc), 64cc heads, a .039" head gasket (FelPro 1003), and stock .025" deck clearance. If the pistons are an extra .025" down in the bore as is typical for "rebuilder" pistons, it's about 9.8:1. If that's true and you also use a .049" head gasket (FelPro 1044), it's 9.6:1.

Dart IEs have relatively poor flowing exhausts compared to the intakes. You'll do better with a modern cam (not that throw-away one you got in your "kit") with a bigger exhaust lobe than intake. Crane makes some computer-type cams like that, as does Comp; look at Comp's grind # 12-268-4 for an example.

A good set of injectors to start out with for cheap, might be a set of stock LS1 injectors. They're 26 lb/hr.

The distributor is a complete no-brainer. One from a TPI car, a 87-up LG4 or L69 or TBI 305 from one of theese cars or a Monte Carlo SS or a V8 truck with a TBI 350, etc. etc. Or of course an aftermarket or replacement for one of those applications. They're all the same distributor and coil.

You'll need to become a master of chip tuning yourself. To think you're going to "buy" a chip for an off-the-wall application like that, is a pipe dream. Ain't gonna happen. Or, more accurately, lots of people will sell you one; but as to whether it'll be the "right" one, optimum for your specific combination, it almost certainly will not. Maybe not even close. Maybe even so far wrong, your new expensive build-up will be slower than your 305, and use 3 times as much gas besides. It's been known to happen.
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Old Feb 24, 2005 | 09:09 AM
  #3  
305PhoenixAm's Avatar
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Posts: 140
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From: Sierra Vista, AZ
Car: 85 Trans Am
Engine: 383 TPI (Yes, TPI. Not for long though)
Transmission: 700r4
Thanks RB

I looked at the deck clearance at TDC after we had the shortblock assembled; it looks more like in the .010-ish range, but that's still..alright. I know that the valve reliefs are 5ccs on the pistons. For some reason I never figured that in. With those I get a cr of like..10.7:1. Might be fine for 91 octane. With a .065" head gasket its back to 9.9:1. should be fine.

I did not know that, about the IEs. I will look for a better exhaust number for the cam. Is the duration and lift range of the crane energizer I'm looking at (see first post) decent enough though?

And I'm assuming that the distributor and coil will hook right up to all my current wiring and stuff...okay.

I was afraid of hearing that about the chip tuning. How do I go about it..? Oh, and does it matter at all that I have the crappy 85 comp?
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Old Feb 24, 2005 | 09:30 AM
  #4  
vernw's Avatar
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From: Dallas, TX area
Car: 91 Formula WS6 (Black, T-Tops)
Engine: 383 MiniRam (529 HP, 519 TQ - DD2K)
Transmission: Built '97 T56, Pro 5.0, CF-DF
Axle/Gears: 4.11 posi Ford 9"
Originally posted by RB83L69
You'll need to become a master of chip tuning yourself. To think you're going to "buy" a chip for an off-the-wall application like that, is a pipe dream. Ain't gonna happen.
Yep, you --- or a very good CLOSE and LOCAL friend --- will really get good tuning that setup.

Ask me how I know! Long distance chip burning just doesn't work!!! A total waste of $300 too.....

Or, more accurately, lots of people will sell you one; but as to whether it'll be the "right" one, optimum for your specific combination, it almost certainly will not. Maybe not even close. Maybe even so far wrong, your new expensive build-up will be slower than your 305, and use 3 times as much gas besides. It's been known to happen.
Again, pretty darn close - you probably don't need to ask me how I know this one....
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Old Feb 24, 2005 | 10:41 AM
  #5  
RB83L69's Avatar
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 18,457
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From: Loveland, OH, US
Car: 4
Engine: 6
Transmission: 5
Measure your deck clearance be sure of what it really is. Don't guess or go by what it "looks" like. You can use any decent straight edge (a carpenter's square works fine) and feeler gauges.

I have no clue about the 85 computer differences, and what impact that has. Check over on the PROM burning board for more insight into that.

I've never heard of a .065" head gasket. Doesn't sound like anything I'd want to use, regardless.... consider that the force trying to push it out sideways, = cyl psi x gasket thick x bore. That means, it has nearly twice as much tendency to blow out as a .039" one would. About the thickest performance-type of one I know of is a FelPro 1044, at .049".

If you don't already have the heads, you should look at the 72cc version instead; and have your block zero-decked to the pistons. With that combo and a .039" gasket, I come up with 10.2:1; which is very livable, since at that point, you have the correct quench (.035" - .040") to minmize pre-ignition and detonation; which you don't have with any of the other combos. It's worth disassembling it if that's what it takes to get it right. Measure #1, #7, #2, & #8, which will tell you how far out of square from front to rear each side the deck is, and how much different it is from left bank to right bank; and tell the machinist those numbers, so he can get it perfect. Mark your pistons and rods with a Sharpie or something so you can put it back together just like it was. You won't even need new bearings or rings.
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