I have an '89 Firebird SSA and was wondering which engine would be good for me? I do not want a full blown race engine, I would like to have an engine that can take me to and from school yet still put down some power. Just incase someone tries to be cocky... . Anyway I'd perfer to stay automatic since where I live theres always traffic and driving stick in traffic isn't fun . Any help would be appreciated, oh and also please mention where I could get the engine, parts etc etc. Thanks a bunch.


~Pajaro

 

If you haven't done so, read the sticky at the top of this forum about swapping from V6 to V8.

Since you live in California, can we assume you have to go through the typical California smog test? If so, you've got restrictions that have to be understood before you get carried away. I'll assume you have those restrictions.

By law, you have to put in an engine & system that is no older than your chassis - in other words, 1989 model year or newer, and it has to have been certified for a similar chassis - read: passenger car - you can't go get an engine/system from a pickup truck. What this really means is you should get a "donor" car, and the easiest way to do that is to find a wrecked car that hasn't been hurt up front - and most cars are hurt in the front. But, don't despair, they are out there.

An '89-'92 3rd gen f-body would be the first choice, because that would be the easiest. Next easiest would be a '93-later f-body. But, you could also use B-body parts (Caprice, Impala), there are just differences that would need to be addressed.

The most plentiful would probably be a TBI type LO3 (305) or LO5 (350) - most plentiful, and probably least desireable. Then TPI LB9 (305) or L98 (350). Finally, LT1 from the later models, and if you really have deep pockets, LS1 - those will be the most expensive and the level of difficulty will increase with the cost.

You need to start looking around at what's available, determine your budget (figuring on spending half of your budget on getting the parts/donor car is a good place to start), then make your decision.

 

Yes, I live in CA. So for my '89 firebird, I have to get an engine from '89 to '92, correct? Well I have a budget of around 3 thousand. So I'll have roughly 1500 to do the engine. Will this be enough? I don't plan on getting brand new parts. The hard part is going to be finding the donor car.


Whats the difference between the engines? I'd like the one that'd be fairly easy to mod without emptying my pockets.

Thanks your help is much appreciated.


~Pajaro

 

I dot know what (LAWS) say anythign about swapping motors lol maybe this is a california thing??? i live in florida and theres no such thing.. Anyway.......pull that thing outa there............ If u wanna make it easy for your self....screw this tpi 305 350 mess from a donor camaro ect head aches head aches head aches from wiring ect....... Find ANY 350 4 bolt main block......with v-8 motor mounts the motor drops right in........ and your good ot go....... id look for maybe a crate motor 3500 bucks for a complete setup making around 300-350 hp........get a 700r4 there EVERYWHERE and your set with a decent car yu can always upgrade

 

Wow 3500 seems a little steep for me considering I'm only going to be using this car school and some occasional fast driving. and plus my budgets roughly 3000.

 

Not to burst your bubble, boosted, but it's Federal law. Enforcement, however, has been left to state & local authorities (it's an EPA/federal highway funds thing - complicated, involved, currupt, etc.).

So, if you've done what you're recommending, you're a Federal outlaw.

California is pretty strict about enforcement, because they've got dirty air and they want Federal highway funds. So, you can't just "screw" the recommendations. I realize your advice is "free", but it's worth less than it costs. Sorry, but that's the ugly truth as far as Señor Fire is concerned.

Now, back to the topic at hand:

If you've got $3000, find a donor car for less than $1500 (can be done). Get the whole car, or make absolutely sure everything you need will be available to you for the price you agree to. It's easier to get the whole car, but many have done it by just getting all the parts. You'll use up the rest getting it in and upgrading.

Spend some time searching on "TPI" & "TBI". I think there's something in the FAQ forum or the Tech Data on the thirdgen.org homepage (take a look, I'm too lazy to do it for you) describing the features, advantages, and weaknesses of each. I know, but don't want to do that here.

 

Hmm well considering about 75% of the stock chevy 4 bolt main blocks unless baught from a manufacturer are 1970's and below i would guess that ALOT of people would be getting in trouble........I guarentee no one cares what the hell motor your car came out of and most have no clue......... Listen to what i have to say...becuase ive been through the same thing you r going through Ive been there and done that...... i was 16 years old in highschool with my 2.8 liter camaro working makign minumum wage as a bag boy.......... i spent every weekend at the junkyard looking for motors ect.... If your budget is 3000.00 you CAN DEF find a used 350 motor that someone has mildly built up for hell ive seen them as lopw as 800.00 350's r a dime a dozen.


Get a 350 CARBED motor dont F with this tpi or tbi crap it'll just complicate everything
whgos gonn put this motor in you???? cuase i guerentee trying to figure out a wiring diagram and computer for a whole new fuel injection system will kill you or cost you ALOT of money for someone else to do...... carbed simple motor will drop right in ..no head aches and VERY cheap

 

Your profile says "Florida". I have no doubt that what you're saying, for all practical purposes, works in Florida.

However, have you ever lived in California? Although my profile says "Colorado", it would have said "California" if this board had existed prior to 1993. In fact, in California, they do care what year the block is, and will in fact fail you if they suspect something and find out you've got a 70's block in an 80's or 90's car. The resulting expense can be much, much more than you paid to put that 70's block into your car, and you may have just turned your car into an "off-road use only" vehicle for the sake of operation in the state of California.

You can't just put a carb on a 1989 chassis vehicle in California and register it. It won't happen. It has to have an induction system and full emissions control system from a certified 1989 or later passenger car. "cuase i guerentee" you that you will not pass the required inspection or sniffer test with a carb on a 1989 model year 3rd gen f-body chassis in smog controlled areas of California.

I've tried to respond to you calmly and with reason, but it's obvious that isn't working with you. It's time for you to shut your mouth and open your ears and learn something about which you obviously know absolutely nothing.

 

Well i cant say what they do in california or how strict they are......nor do i care about getting into an argument in which i dont care about lol.....but in florida we had smog testig up until 2002 and i passed every year........with my 69 355 smal block with a holley double pumper....... a smog test is pretty much the same test we use ( i say we becuase im ase certified mechanic at pepboys) to diagnos how efficient a motor is burning fuel and oxygen...a smog test tests the amount of hydrocarbons or unburned fuel that the car is putting out..... IF your motor is running efficiently havign a good spark and good air fuel mixture u should have NO problem passing any smog test ( as in regards to what they check on your motor i have no idea) but as far as emmisions testiong goes... i guarentee my BLOwn 355 small block with my holley 850 double pumper will pass any emmisions test in my 87 camaro......... so Either #1 move the hell outa CALI cuase they obviously have very strict regulations im not aware of........ or save up some more money for your TPI converson 3000 dollars will be cutting it very close...and in the long run youll wish u saved up that much more money......not only do u have to buy a transmission, motor and pay someone to install everything for you...remember deferred gratification is hard but youll en dup better in the long run meaning.....instead of just putting anythign in there.......save up get what u want and do it RIGHT the first time that way u dant have to keep an on going project of fixing repairing ect ......... you can listen to my advice or not but ...... i ve taken both routes and with about only 6000 in my car im running 10's @ 128+ in my 87 camaro and it was worth saving a little more..

 

What you're recommending doesn't apply to the originator. Period. So why do you keep coming back to put more of it in?

This isn't an argument. It's the time I have to take to correct the misinformation you're posting. I'm not saying your suggestions won't work for those in Florida or many other portions of the US (although technically Federal law makes what you're suggesting illegal in all 50 states). But, it doesn't work for almost everybody in California, and a bunch more of us in the US. The originator is in California, has to comply with California regulations, inspections, and testing, and moving out of California probably isn't an option for him. So, stick to what is relevant to the originator.



Thank you.

 

There has been no ( mis-information), that would assume that what i have told him is wrong.... seeing as how the only thing that i have said in my posts is that a 350 carbed motor would be better suited for his needs..... this would not constitute (mis-information). However, like i stated earlier i know nothing about the laws in California and it would be ignorant of me to assume so....the fact that you should move out of california was an obvious joke lol
If you read the last part of my post......aside from all the smog and california guidlines........ all 3000 dollars is gonna get you is a rushed job..... with little more hp then youd get from a 125 shot on that 2.8 liter which would be much cheaper..... my suggestion to you is #1 either wait till you get more money and do it the right way and build a very nice setup....its hard not to rush into things but its better in the end...... or if you want your everyday driver with a lil ummph when u need put a set of 3.73-4.10s in the rear with posi....get a nos cam for your motor( yes they do make those for 2.8 liter..call comp cams) and put a 100-125 shot on there.......you will come way short of youir budget.... youll have a sleeper and run faster then you would with a tpi out of same model camaro i ran 14.90 @ 93 mph with that exact same set up a log time ago with my 2.8 lietr.....and that solves your smog problem and you dont have to wrry about a thing ...then just keep saving till you can do a real swap

 

What you seem to fail to realize is that a 70's 350 carb'd motor is not "suited for his needs" because he simply cannot use one in his car. It's that simple. It's a fact. He CANNOT USE THAT MOTOR, becuse HE LIVES in CALIFORNIA and much comply with CALIFORNIA LAWS. Quite frankly, in the conext of this discussion, we don't give a rats *** what you've done with your car in FLORIDA.

Fuego - If you look at the top of the site, you'll see an ad for Hawk's thirdgen. He sells 305TBI motors for about $500. You'll need quite a bit of extra stuff (PM me if you need a list), or you can get a parts car like five7kid said. I got my '91 RS parts car for $125. So cheap is out there, You just have to know where to look.

 

lol no flaming intended but you obviousely either dont read very well or have ADD and coudnt finish the paragraph, u would have noticed that observing what 57kid said about the emmisions laws in california...a carbed motor obviously would not work for him ....this was all summed up...(re-read) however to the point of trying to help this kid out

Why would youi tell anyone to go buy a 305 motor ?? lol seeing as how it has just a few hp over his 2.8 liter everyone knows that gm's 305 was a slug and made no hp and is prob one of the hardest motors to get hp from..which would not suit his needs either...he specifically said he wanted to get on it a lil if someone stepped up.....with that 305 people would prob just laugh.... which is why i told him to save up and then do the swap right and if he could fiund a good donor car with a 350 then he could get a setup that he would be happy with....or throw some spray on that lil 2.8 liter until then

 

Actually, I do have ADD, and your appalling grammar certainly doesn't help any.
Why the 305 TBI? Price. Hawk's sells it for $500. That leaves him enough money for him to get random things he'll need for hte swap. Such as the v6 to v8 bellhousing adaptor he'll need for his transmission. Or a new transmission.
Lastly, 305's arent bad motors. The 305 and the 350 are the same block, but with different bores. Which means that anything you can bolt to a 350 of that generation, you can bold to a 305. No, part for part a 305 will not be as powerful as a 350. But, they will get you to point A to point B cheaply and quickly. Not to mention the superior gas economy of the 305 over the 350, and with California's gas prices, you want the best milage you can get. You don't even need a 305. I've beaten an early 90's GP and a for TBird in my 3.0L Aerostar. A 5.0L v8 in a lighter car is all the better.
EDIT: Personally, I don't believe a v6 on spray will help the situation at all. Waste of money.

 

Hey u seem to like 305's thats fine. But in my opinion it was prob the worst mistake chevy made......fuel economy would not be an issues between a tpi 350 and a tbi 350 not enough to notice. And though its true the 350 and the 305 r similar heads cam ect responde very diff to the smaller bore and stroke. I think ever 305 should be used as pretty planters like i have outside my garage as far as the v-6 with spray..... #1 its cheaper #2 its sooo much easier #3 its FASTER then swaping either 305 or 350 when dialed in correctly. like i said earlier i ran 14.80's with a sprayed 2.8 liter with gears cam and exhaust plenty of power when he needs it ....yet no one will ever know and the best part.......... he doesnt even have to go through all this headache just take a day and hes done

 

Well, I'm don't really want to use nitrous. Isn't there a big risk of me killing my engine, or having to refill the tank. In the longrun woudn't just an engine swap save me some money?

jovial86- Where would I even begin to look for a parts car?

 

Nos is very safe if you use the right fuel /air ratio ..dont go over baord...i wouldnt go more then 125 shot on 2.8 and no nos refills r cheap.......

If you wanna still go for that 305 swap go for it...but lemme know when ur back on the baord in a few monthes asking y your car is still slow and youve spent all this money that u didn thav ein a build up..... but hey what do i know i only have a 700 hp small block 350 street 3rd gen

 

I'm not sure I'd necessarily go out looking for an LO3, but it will have more power and certainly a lot more potential than the V6. The TBI forum has a bunch of information about making them run better.

We've already established that you don't know about California emissions requirements. May we also assume that your 700 hp small block 350 street 3rd gen would not be a candidate for meeting said requirements?

Fuego-man - donor car sources require looking. Start with your local paper classifieds - our papers here have "Parts", "Wrecked", and "Rebuildable" sections that would be a better place to look than the regular autos for sale sections. Next, junkyards (they rarely like to sell whole cars, though - some people have worked out deals). Then eBay, the Classifieds on this Board, the regional forum on this Board. And, believe it or not, keeping your eyes open as you cruise the streets in your area - many people have come across 3rd gens that somebody got for a project and gave up on, or wrecked and never did anything else with them. My donor car came from an insurance auction.