DISCLAIMER: If you're overly touchy about honest opinions on the 3.4 don't read on, you might get your feelings hurt then it would all fall apart.

I see a lot of talk about swapping a 3.4L into a thirdgen in place of stock 3.1L and 2.8L engines. I guess I don't really understand the goal. Is it for added performance or a quick easy way to avoid rebuilding a 60* V6? If its the later I guess that makes sense, since it wouldn't be too hard to find a low mileage example, but I guess what gets me is the performance aspect. I hear 3.4 swaps refered to in the same way as nitrous or other power adders. I guess what comes to my mind is stock 3.4L performance in the 4th gen Fbody. A while back a buddy of mines girl friend had a 93 Firebird with a 3.4 and I'm guessing a T5 5spd. Incidently this is the same gal that used to own my formula. Anyway she was concerned that it lacked power and she didn't feel safe pulling out into traffic. Its also important to note that she had just learned to drive stick. To check the car out and to see if it was running OK, I drove the car with her in it. Power was ok, but it didn't grab me and make me want to put a 3.4 in my 2.8L S10. I told her to rev it higher before shifting to the next gear and it'd be fine. A few weeks later she sold it. Anyway my point to all this is why the 3.4 is so desirable when this 3.4L car was a veritable pig? Is it because it was high mileage (80,000 miles?) was it out of tune?
I don't mean to question anyones honesty, maybe the 3.4's intake is overly restricted or something. Any answers?

She since has moved on to a newer Eclipse or something or other with a 4cyl auto, and she has a 86 Fiero SE 2.8 4spd, neither of which she's ever commented on having a lack of power.



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Drew
predatorman@hotmail.com
83 Camaro 5.0L *1995-98*
87 Iroc 5.7L
91 Formula 5.7L 14.3@98mph
91 RS Convertible 5.0L
91 Firebird 3.1L
92 S10 2.8L For Sale!
98 Grand Am GT 3.1L

 

Drew, im not touchy on the subect at all, although Ive never owned a 2.8 Fbody but I did have a 2.8 blazer that I poped a GM HO 3.4 crate into. I personaly dident notice much difference in power. Lets say an example of the difference would be upgrading the cam in a stock 305 lg4 to an lt1 cam. With no other mods! Not worth the money especialy since I dont have to conform to smog laws! I sold the thing soon after.
Now Ive driven a 3.4 4th gen firebird and it was doggy pulled like a 2.8. I was not impressed at all. Now I did drive an 84 Fierro with a 3.4 and custome exhaust and it freaking hauled. But then a fierro with a 2.8 hauls also.
Biggest reason someone would use a 3.4 is the smog factor it's really the best option when you need echecks and it can be built upon.
SSC

 

OK, that makes sense... I can't help but think the only performance difference between the 2.8/3.1/3.4 would be more attributed to cam changes than displacement.

I would tend to think that if the 3.4 was as powerful as a 2.8/3.1 on nitrous that GM wouldn't have completely retooled for the 3.8 in the newer 4th gens.

 

hey guys, Well if you look at the stats that are somewhere on this board regarding the hp/tq ratings on the 2.8/3.1/3.4 theres a pretty big difference in tourque between the 3.4 and 2.8. I ahve a 2.8 now and im thinking of the 3.4 conversion but i am also having some second thoughts. I know KED is very happy with his swap and recommends it to many people. i guess it all depends on what you want exactly.

 

Drew, first off you have to do more reasearch if you want to make serious power from a 3.4 swap. A guy like me would never just stick in a STOCK 3.4 in place of my 2.8. Think about it. Who in there right mind would slap in a stock 3.4 if they were power crazy? You have to do your homework. You mod it. You add compression, you rework the heads, you add a custom roller cam, etc, etc, etc. Do you know what Im getting at? Im not flaming you guy, its just you have to know what your getting into when you try walking the walk and your step is way off.


You dont buy a $2000 3.4 from GM, you buy one from TA creations for $500 and mod the crap out of it.

Just dont forget nothing can be assumed.



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But thats not what people on this board are saying. Its been referenced as a huge increase in power and the holy grail of 60* v6 performance and I want to know why some people view it this way when in stock form it doesn't seem to be any better than a 2.8 or 3.1

 

It isnt a "Holy Grail" by itself, I know you know that. But it is a step to more power. Its all in the combination and anything is possible. Plus It doesnt hurt that many aftermarket parts were and still are made for the 60 degree v6's.

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yeah there are, the 60* V6 is/has been a very popular motor. I just think in many cases the full story isn't shared on this board, like in this case. My curiousity is satisfied, thanks for taking the time to clarify.

 

No sweat man, btw how much are you asking for the 92 s10?

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OK by Gm's words it is the "best 60 deg block ever made" It also make the same power as a 305 carb/TBI At 160-170 and 200 and change Ft.lbs.
It is the most powerfull 60 Deg thats made currently. PERIOD. It is also more respoive to mods then the 2.8/3.1, so the power builds up faster. Hell 3rd generation 60 deg heads flow close to 30 percent more intake and 40 percent more exhust then our 2.8/3.1. And yes they are interchangeable. YOU CAN SWAP THEM YOU JUST HAVE TO BUY A SPECIFIC LOWER AND UPPER INTAKE.(Just for those that have been wondering.)

Though I have seen 375Hp/405Ft lbs from a 3.1 dirt track racer so these motors CAN make good power.

But on a different note.. Drew you just need to stay outta the V6 board.

 

Sorry V6 ****, I belong anywhere I want to go here. I'm sorry you don't like it, but as I've said before I've been around since the first days of thirdgen.org and I'll be around long after most of the people on here have gone.


Keep it on topic.

I was asking for $1500... it needs some body work (bed and rust) and a fuel pump... Since winters coming up I might be doing something special with it for a beater. I don't want to talk about it too much till its done, but it'll be different to say the least.

 

and just why exactly should I stay off the V6 board? I've had a 3.1 Firebird for a year last May. When I started it didn't run, the tires were flat, the interior was trashed, and it looked like trash. Since then I've replaced the injectors (a couple of times), performed a complete tune up, replaced the transmission, tranny mount, installed WS6 sway bars front and rear, replaced the entire exhaust from the y pipe back, repaired injection wiring, replaced the seats, installed an overhead console, removed 2 layers of tint, repaired the foglights, replaced the VSS, replaced the oil pressure sending unit, fought with a faulty battery, removed a diced alarm system, repaired the stereo system, and performed minor body work. So how exactly do you determine that I don't belong on this board?

 

Oops, forgot fuel pump, tires, and airbox mods...

 

Lets break it down even further. The 2.8 is a 3.5" bore x 2.99" stroke(Old trans am 302s in the trans am series had 3" strokes, great for 8000+rpms btw).

The 3.1 is a 3.5" bore x 3.31" stroke(still great for high rpms, 350s have 3.48" and 383's have 3.75" btw)

Now the 3.4 is a 3.620 bore(.120 over a 2.8 and 3.1) and uses the 3.31" 3.1 crank.

Not a real big difference but about the difference between a 305 and a 350.

The heads you are refering to are not nessasary. Iron 2.8 heads which btw are the same on 3.1's and f body 3.4s are capable of 300 hp with typical modifications.

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Originally posted by Drew:


If the 2.8 breaks, you might as well throw in a 3.4 and gain 40 pounds of torque and 25 hp from a STOCK 3.4. If you want a stronger 60/V6 and want a direct BOLT in replacement get a cheap 3.4 and mod it out. A modded 3.4 could make 190 hp or more(heads,cam,headers,exhaust,intake,etc.), a gain of 50 hp and 60-75 punds of torque over the 2.8. A V8 swap is a PITA compared to the bolt in 3.4 swap. So to answer your question the 3.4 is ussually installed to replace a broken 2.8, or it is hopped up on an engine stand and dropped in. Look at the 3.4 swap like you look at the 305 to 350 swap. A 3.1 -3.4 swap will give some gains, but not as impressive as the 2.8 to 3.4 swap, especially when you ar talking torque.

less weight= better acceleration. Unfortunately the f-body need a lot of torque because its heavy.

 

Well the way the 2.8 to 3.4 was described to me was "its the difference from a 305 to 350.
GM told me that. There should be no need to mod it, it is sold as a direct replacement except the needed prom.
Can you say a stock 350 needs to be modded to see any performance gain over a 305? No there should be an imediate increase in performance. I did not get this increase im my swap. The final result after 300$ worth of mods, :Pause to thank KED for his insite :
was a slightly better performance off the line.
just fumeing because I was totaly screw with the blazer. "No flames intended or anything"
SSC

 

Oh and I have no problem with that. Its just me thats all.

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1992 ext cab S10
173 on NOS, 5153Nos,Black Magic,2030 Crane Cam,11mm Moroso Wires, MSD 6al, MSD Blaster Coil,K&N,Holley Tbi, Edelbrock Headers,40 series Delta Flow,Zexel,Toms 28 spline axles,Hypertech chip, Granetelli 190 lph, Centerforce Dual Friction,Jet pulleys,Spray Bed Liner, Altezzas,Pioneer din 1/2, 01 Vette wheels, Harwood 4 inch hood, and Much more...

 

This board is very tense. Lol. You guys should relax like we do on the s10 board.The mods here probably strees to much. Also no offense to anyone who has installed a 3.4 and not modded it. I was just being agressive.

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1992 ext cab S10
173 on NOS, 5153Nos,Black Magic,2030 Crane Cam,11mm Moroso Wires, MSD 6al, MSD Blaster Coil,K&N,Holley Tbi, Edelbrock Headers,40 series Delta Flow,Zexel,Toms 28 spline axles,Hypertech chip, Granetelli 190 lph, Centerforce Dual Friction,Jet pulleys,Spray Bed Liner, Altezzas,Pioneer din 1/2, 01 Vette wheels, Harwood 4 inch hood, and Much more...

 

Seriously people DO need to chill. I know a lot of guys don't agree with drews ideas about the swap, but he does make a lot of sense about how much money it would cost to do the swap or to twin turbo the 6. It is just an opinion of his and this argument has gotten blown way out of proportion. This is very immature and lately all I've been reading about is a bunch of flames and barely anything about fixing up a 6. Let's take this back to the way this board used to be. Seriously, a lot of you guys are so touchy, you remind me of past girlfriends!

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1992 RS 3.1L Bone Stock

"Yeah, it's a V6 SO WHAT!?"

 

Haha, thats the spirit!

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1992 ext cab S10
173 on NOS, 5153Nos,Black Magic,2030 Crane Cam,11mm Moroso Wires, MSD 6al, MSD Blaster Coil,K&N,Holley Tbi, Edelbrock Headers,40 series Delta Flow,Zexel,Toms 28 spline axles,Hypertech chip, Granetelli 190 lph, Centerforce Dual Friction,Jet pulleys,Spray Bed Liner, Altezzas,Pioneer din 1/2, 01 Vette wheels, Harwood 4 inch hood, and Much more...

 

Drew I've read your last few posts and I'm suprised, here you are putting down the V6 Camaros when your V8's aren't the fastest either, come on now, I don't see any Z28 3rd Gen. beating the WORLDS FASTEST STREET LEGAL HONDA at 8.4 sec in the 1/4. I use to be like you, GET rid of this stupid v6 and get the BIG DADDY 350 with all the mods, but then I found out how much changing you had to do as far as wiring, springs and all the other stuff. People told me "IF YOU WANT a V8 then buy a V8 car. I LOVE my car and I like to drive around but not drag race, I can bet stock rice burners so who cares. V6 3.4 is a great swap for our Camaros becasue of the easy take out and put back in, making the turn around faster.

A 3.4L V6 can be 220HP / 215PFT all you have to do is port and polish and add a stroker kit (9.5 to 1) and of course a HOT spark with free flowing exhaust.

Thats all I want and need for driving around and going to work and you can't beat the MPG.

So I think your time would be better spent working with your V8 brothers on how to beat that 8.4s Honda.

As for us V6ers we will stick with NHRA rules and handy caps when we race.

thanks for your time
Ryan

 

Hi.
I did my swap as it was a very inexpensive way to get my car running again.
The PLUS SIDE IS
Massive torque & HP gains over the 2.8.
PLUS I passed Ca. smog with ease!!
NOW if ya wanna play with the 60* V-6, start with the best option you may be able to attain.
Of the 60* V-6 series, the 3.4 is the COMMON SENSE best.
For fun you can obtain the DOHC 3.4 East West version used in Monte Carlos.
I estimate I am making 170-175 HP & 200-210 foot pound of torque for $850 investment. I do want more, but efficent exhaust piping is the true simple solution. After that comes playing with the upper end, anyway possible. I would only redo the heads/rocker arms and play with the intake. But, I'd rather spend the real muscle car effort on my 1967 Camaro LT-1 engine & 1974 Corvette head swap. And riding my "new" 1972 Honda CB 175.

Dollar for dollar/effort spent, this is the best performance/swap job I've ever done!! This is why I recommend it. Ya WIN!! Ask anyone who else has done this swap (atleast 15+) .Priced a machining & parts purchasing & engine rebuilding job lately?

Oh I also got over 25+ MPG doing 60-80 MPH (effortlessly) & 330 mile round trip from LA to San Diego.

My combo pulls like a freight train and speeds easily over 100 MPH. SO far, limited by old tires. Can't wait for new tires.

I recently took a 1991 Mustang LX 5.0 owner for a ride. His jaw dropped. He was more stunned how inexpensive my project cost & the results in the passenger seat really pleased him! He was quite impressed. Every drive, so am I, this Firebird is a real pleasant ride. From one that owns a 1974 Corvette, too.

I cannot wait to add nitrous to this mix, after I base line drag race it, soon.
Passed Carlsbad Dragstrip this past weekend going to San Diego.

I do plan on dropping a 3.4 into my S-10 Blazer, too. I love these 3.4 motors!!

IF I want a real race car, I have those toys. But, this Firebird is a blast!!

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

But, how much difference does the 3.4 make over a 3.1 or 2.8 when you start talking mods?

What does everything except the last sentence of your post have to do with this thread? Let it go.

BTW this post is directed at alswede.

[This message has been edited by Drew (edited September 04, 2001).]

 

The mods/HP gains are what you believe ya may be making. I won't answer for many others claims, I'd rather stay on the conservative side of the claimed power gain numbers.

There is no replacement for the 3.4 displacment.

Sorry about the last line of my response, but, I would rather spend my real HP making effort on my other rides.

My Firebird 3.4 swap job is a blast to drive! I classify my Firebird as one of my most fun rides I own. Suspension is well balanced and a powerful responsive engine.

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA