5-0 Blackbird

Just keep us in check, same with Gary. It's awesome that there are people like you guys that are willing to take the time to keep everyone else up to date in detail with whats going on and what's needed. Each swap that people like you guys do, makes it easier to get fellow Firebird drivers to a point where having a third gen Pontiac Firebird powered by Pontiac is very possible. Thanks guys!

Formula_Fire

Just a little update it occours to me that the stock second gen manifolds will work on our cars right? Well if thats the case what about 2nd gen shorty headers like these from summit?

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...135+4294839039

These are half the cost of the ram air manifolds, weigh alot less and probably flow about the same too. I doubt they are much bigger than the cast units as they are shorties and I know with the second gen full headers that the big issue is clearing the floorpan with shorties this isn't a issue so long as they dump out at about the same place. When I get to this point I will try to get ahold of a set to try.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

see post numbers 293 & 294 on page 6 about these

Ralph S.

So we have the engine mounts available to us through one Company and if I am not mistaken we use the stock trans crossmember to mount the tyranny? Ok that works for me fro there what are you guy's doing for a rear end? What about suspension up front for the weight difference and more importantly out back. How are you going to hook up the new found Torque??What are the options? I know that the stocks are wimpy and I suspect will crap the bed fairly quickly if I'm not mistaken? I could be wrong lol! My kid is interested and I frankly want to do it also.
Thanks Ralph

Formula_Fire

Those are universal street rod headers not shorty headers, street rod headers just dump center or near center because they are designed to fit things like old school T-buckets and the like, hence why on that page there is no specific cars listed. Shorty headers are basically tube style stock manifolds designed for specific applications and usually dump in the stock locations. The one I listed is specific for a second gen F-body and if you look at its picture should dump in the same location as the ram air manifolds which we know will work.

Oh BTW folks for those of you following my idea of retaining the TBI setup I found out the 454 TBI units off of big block chevy trucks came with a adaptor plate to bolt right up to a quadrajet manifold so these will bolt right up to a stock pontiac V8 manifold with no mods.

flyitlikustolit

that is good news. thanks for the update.

cckc41574

so could i just swap everything from my 76 ventura with a 260 v8 in it over to my 87 firebird with a 2.8 5 speed? my biggest problem is i want to keep it a 5 speed do you think it could handle it or should i just leave the power glide pn the 260 and make it an auto for now?

bschuus

I have an 87 Firebird with a 2.8. I want to know what will be my biggest headache installing a carburated 350 and I have not decided on a trans.( I have both auto and stick)

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

The 260 in your Ventura is an Olds V8, not Pontiac, so none of the advice in this thread will help you. You should open a different thread so that we can help you with that.

ryan85TA305

I'm in the process of putting my own 400 swap together...right now, i have one question. Does anyone have an up-to-date link for engine mounts?

A page or two back I read you might not need them(?) If you don't use them you won't have enough clearence for the stock hood?

LASGTA88

hey guys been a long time since i was on here... lost internet for years... gettin ready to put a '66 389 in my 88 GTA and this has been very helpfull... im a welder fabricator by trade and cant see spending that money to buy mounts so tryin to figure out the specs to build my own.. would be willing to make some for others if someone can help with specs.. mainly need the length of the two tabs. im sure ill need more help finding info on this swap.. tired of spinning bearings in 350's and wanted to swap to pontiac for a long time. thanks for all the great info and links... any help or info would be appreciated...

LA

HouseMN

I'm in the market for a set of mounts for this swap. Pontiac Group no longer has any in stock.

Is anyone else currently making these, or was Indian Adventures the only one?

18inchboyds

what the hell happened to chief many horses ?

Project: 85 2.8 bird

well,. if Pontiac group still doesn't have any in stock in the spring, I'll see about getting measurements from the 69 Custom S, the 78 block when it gets stroked, and see if I can find a low buck CAD program & do up some bracket drawings. take those to a welder & have them fab it up.

Gary Berg

hey guys i just sold the 91 t/a and got the 86 t/a for the 455 swap. ive been looking around alot and im goin with spohns custom tranny crossmember cause im using a th-400 trans. as for the exaust im just goin with custom headers, you guys will be waiting forever untill they actually come out with ones that fit. im also either goin wit a ford 9" or moser rear cause ur spider gears are gonna take a crap in the stock third gen rears. the only questions i have are can we please get the demensions for the mounts cause they obviously dont make them anymore and there alot of people that will just weld them up. For the drive shaft im assuming its gonna have to be custom as well?

howesbird

I welded my in and my drive shaft with the 700r4 is fine but if you shop around your area there should be a place that shortens driveshafts. When i worked at a diesel shop i costantly went to one down the shop and it was cheap to shorten one and balance it

howesbird

dont bother just weld them in soooooo easy

one11999

I have a 1986 T/A w/ 6.6 Poncho. Too many extras too mention, if needed I will list all extras. I bought a 1986 T/A for $500 and now have $8000. invested and my only problem is cooling. This is to make a long story short...Can I buy a radiator to cool this engine in this car? Or do I have to go custom , just like the true dual exhaust that I paid big $ for? Anyone? Please help or take it off my hands!!!!

howesbird

What do you have for a radiator and a fan setup

one11999

A 3 row radiator from Autozone and 2 electric fans (biggest that will fit) diagonally mounted directly on radiator.

shanep1991

hello i just bought a 1988 fbird with a blown v6 but the cars in great shape, new rebuilt 5 speed in it also, is there a way i can use this tranny on a v8? i know it wont hold much power..... at all, but i just dont want to swap it right now and ive already got a basic rebuilt .040 358 just sitting there doing nothing, can i put this engine in my car or not?

btw great site guys i love it

howesbird

seeing how third gens stock came with 1 core radiators or 2 cant remember but defently not 3 core. Also the third gen doesnt have a huge grill to cool a big radiator like that. It sounds weird but you might be better with a lower degree thermo and a smaller radiator

black84ta455

I had the same problem in my 84 ta with a 455.I ended up biting the bullet and bought a be cool radiator.Expensive but well worth it.Used the stock shroud and a generic flex fan and it never goes above 180 degrees.Worth investing in if you plan to keep it and drive.

jj74sd455

anybody have pics,trying to do research

howesbird

What do you need pics of? and ill get them ive done my swap

jj74sd455

i was lookin for pics of engine bay clearance and hood clearance,trying to see if i could do it without cutting the hood. i like the sleeper look,and i was wondering about suspension issues since my 400 weighs a bit more than a 305. i tried searchin this thread but most the pics lead to page errors.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

You should also check out on this forum and some old Pontiac magazines (search the net) for a factory installed 301 turbo in a 1982 Trans Am and a 455 put in a Trans AM. Those engines both fit under the power bulge hood with no problems. It is a matter of fabbing the frame brackets or engine brackets to fit the engine into the bay with the same height from the crank centerline to the crossmember centerline that a chevy small block has.

These were factory installed, but never sold. They were just R&D mules from back in the day. There was no problem putting them in under the hood.

The radiator should be fine if you bought the same one for a vin code 8 car with AC and a Z28 or Trans Am package. As discussed elsewhere on this forum, the cooling issues usually are due to the lack of proper shrouding and ducting of the cooling system.

SILVER79

For any PONTIAC cooling issues, go to performance years forum, look up cooling and cast impeller on water pump, it makes a big difference

jj74sd455

the 301 is just a bit shorter than a 400, i plan on putting it in a base camaro and really dont want to modify the exterior at all. undecided if i want to use one of my 455s or not,no exterior difference in dimensions. i do recall a hpp article a long time ago about putting a buick 455 in, i happen to have a 72 buick 455 in my garage,just thought about that.hmmmmmmm

Formula_Fire

So its been awhile folks... so heres a few updates! the last two years my 92 sat in the garage. I have the engine ready. Few things I did find out about the ac setup for those of us wishing to retain ours. The 79~81 301's used the same exact R4 compressor as the 3rd gens just the clutch is diffrent but I think we could just get swap them. The 454 truck tbi will work. We're gonna see if I can sell off my 79 formula to clear the garage out and if I can then this project will get off the ground finally.

87muscleman

I have a 87 trans am with a 305 and i would love to drop a 400 in and was wondering how much i will need to modify things to make it work!

Formula_Fire

If you want your stock hood to clear your gonna have to make lower engine mounts as it looks like no one is making them. Even then you may need to modify your upper alternator mount and use a shorter belt. Use stock style manifolds or have custom headers made up. Have a custom Y-pipe made up. Stock trans will need a adapter to take it from the chevy bolt pattern to the BOP (trans go makes them for around $70). If your setup for carb its pretty straight forward. TBI will work but you'll need to adapt over sensors and I would suggest upgrading to the bigger 454 truck unit and then you'll need your computer reprogramed for the bigger fuel demand. Oh one last thing I would highly suggest subframe connectors.

BTW little update from me I finally got serious about selling the 79 bird. It is now for sale for real ($1500 if anyone is interested) and I bought some parts for the 92... I still need mounts I tried emailing the people who used to make them a few months ago... and no replies I think they are all gone. Did anyone ever figure out the specs for them so we can clear our stock hood? I have no problem welding together brackets but without a pattern to go off of I am kinda in the dark. and yes I know I can just weld the pontiac mounts to the frame but I want my stock hood and a thought occoured to me... If the engine is raised up like that... that's gonna change the drive line angle and and probably gonna put stress on the 3 link attached to the trans and in turn the axle and drive shaft.

t/a formulas

iTrader: (2)

can someone post some pics of there pontiac motors, and which headers work with the least fabbing. got a 72 pontiac 455 going in my 89 , headers is all i like to have the parts ready

mikes_89_brd

hey guys ive read most of theese threads. i myself am working on the same project. i had a brain fart.....you can get a set of pontiac header flanges from jegs for around 40 dollars i think i am going to try to get a set of the larger tube small block chevy headers for a third gen, cut the flanges off and fab them to fit the sb headers. has anyone tried or thought of this??? another option may be a set of adapters to correct the angle from the pont block to the sbc headers. its going to be a little while before i make it to this stage but just goin to throw it out there.

flyitlikustolit

don't know if it's ever been tried, but that's a really interesting idea. keep us posted if you try it.

jj74sd455

if you are willing to fab them why not buy the custom kit that you have to weld up yourself, just make sure you get the pontiac exhaust flanges

mikes_89_brd

If the tubes are already routed then all you have to fab is from the pontiac flange to the sbc header you can rind those all day long for $100 I've built several sets of coustom headers it isn't as easy as it looks plus by the time you get done welding all the joints it will not look as good

jj74sd455

yeah but you got to take into account the fact a pontiac starter is on the opposite side of the chevy. if you get the the headers made for third gen with chevy v8 you are gonna have to shorten one side and lengthen the other. i love my pontiac v8s( ive got four engines) and have considered the swap myself, just dont want to do it to my 89 ta-its all original. looking for another to do it with. the hood clearance seems to be the biggest obstacle. i would want my hood non-modified for the sleeper look.

Formula_Fire

I'm with ya on that JJ I want my car to look like the 400 came from the factory that way. I am even thinking that about getting some cast aluminum valve covers I saw that look like something the factory would put out.

Formula_Fire

Oh PS my project is on hold for a bit. Not dead just I need to finish up and get rid of some others before I can even think about it.

jj74sd455

hey formula, i just reread your post about the alternator and i remember that you can put it below the ac compressor i just dont remember who sold the brackets, i think we could probably clear stock hood with a race style oil pan. been working issues out with my 89 ta 305 so i havent had the chance to find a body for the conversion. i would like to find a match for my 89 ta, i think it would be cool. if i get beat in the 305 i could bring out the poncho powered twin for a rematch,lol

Formula_Fire

Yea I have been thinking about our AC compressors as well... the 80 and 81 firebirds with the pontiac blocks had the short round style ones they are the exact same compressors we use on the gm motors just the clutch is v belt instead of serp.... What this basically means is with those brackets we could use the use the normal compressor for our cars and not have to modify our ac lines or anything to keep them. Only thing I am not sure on is the height again.....
<-----Is really wishing he had kept that 301 engine out of the espree he stripped now to use as mockup ::rolls eyes::

jj74sd455

whenever i scavenge parts off pontiacs i stay away from the 301.the 301 pontiac is the only "different" pontiac engine. pontiac blocks are all the same dimensions on the outside, from the 350 to the 455, except the 301. the 301 is basically a 400 with shorter deck height and shorter rods. 301 parts tend to cause problems because some parts work but some dont. intake and exhaust manifolds are completely different, making some brackets different lengths than standard pontiac v8. if you are going to use a 301 you would have to mock up with it and it would help with hood clearance but it has limited potential for power even with a turbo setup.

Formula_Fire

I thought none of them worked for the most part. I never intended on using a 301 their heads suck and their stegth was cut in the casting so under any performance mods cracks and the heads can't really be ported enough to do much. I wasn't aware the brackets on them was all that diffrent.. I was mainly after the A/C bracket setup because its the round r4 style compressor setup like on our 3rd gens and in the right spot on the engine... If the brackets on the 301 A/C worked on the 400 then it would be a bolt on to keep our stock A/C. Hell we wouldn't even have to break the system to drop the pontiac block in.

Formula_Fire

Hey JJ I just reread your response and realized something. I believe the Indian adventures motor mounts made the engine clear the stock hood using a stock 2nd gen pan.

91Formula305TPI

I am going to do the swap with a 1964 389 that i had in my 2nd gen bird. Does anyone have updated links to indian adventures? There site seems to have gone down and google isnt pulling anything up. Thanks Mike

Formula_Fire

Their gone. I'm working with another member on getting my hand on the mounts they used to make and might possibly start making my own.

jj74sd455

you might try jim butler at http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/
i know hes put a few pontiac engines in third gens, and i believe hes started making motor mounts for a few different applications. worth a shot and his kids are very friendly when it comes to information if you call their toll free # on the website, let us know how it goes

howesbird

Just wondering has anyone got the swap done?

Kross4031

I finished mine. It was badass. just couldn't keep it cool. scrapped it and now i am doing an 80 z28 with the 455.