Hey. I had gotten an 87 V6 Firebird a bit back, which the fuel pump went in, and I spun a rod. I've since gotten another car (crossed over the dark side, got a Ford...ironically a Thunderbird...!), but I still do have my Firebird in the back. The body is in GREAT shape. Not a spec of rust on it, and 2 year old paint that still looks damned new.

I'm batting around the idea of holding on it and swapping a V8 in. I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth it. Here's my situation.

Money is tight. BUT, there's no rush, either. The car doesn't need to go anywhere. It could take me 10 years for all I care.

I also...well....I don't know what i'm doing. But, I want to learn. My idea was that throwing myself into it with some tech manuals, and the on-line resource of course, as well as some freinds who DO know what they are doing could be a great way to force myself to learn. I've never done any kind of work on a car, and I know that swapping a V6 to a V8 will be a big effort.

I'm just trying to figure out, is it worth it? Should I even bother trying?

 

Most of those questions can only be answered by you. But, I'll throw in my two-cents....

Wth a blown motor the car isn't worth too much (dollar & cents wise) Somebody will probably give you a few bucks for it if the remainder of the car is in nice shape, but don't expect much more than peanuts. If it sits for 10 years plan on PAYING someone to tow it away!

If you really want to learn, then a car that is not a daily driver and isn't taking up useful space is a great place to start. With a true budget rebuild of a J.Yard motor and bunch of J.Yard parts (for the conversion to V-8) you could probably turn your TURD into a nice performer for about $2000. Sure some of the guys around here will recommend; Tearing out the Computer, Aluminum Intakes, Performance Cams, Demon Carbs, Aftermarket Heads, MSD Ignitions, etc. etc. etc. But if you keep it very simple and sort-of stock you can get a great performer for about $2K investment...... Could be a nice weekend cruiser.... My son an I did a basically stock engine swap and the car runs like a bat-out-of-hell. [IMPO] It probably performs BETTER than SOME/MANY of those rides with all the expensive aftermarket parts. It's almost entirely GM factory original parts and is computer controlled.

I think a real problem you might want to investigate first is EMISSIONS IN NEW JERSEY!!!! BEFORE you start buying parts. Your car is an '87 and it could be a real nightmare to get a tag for with extensive mods (i.e. Engine Replacement/Upgrade) I am not overly familiar with Jersey but I am from that region (N.E. PA). I recall Jersey was a real PITA about emissions. Maybe your past the requirements with a vehicle of almost 20 years. I'd check that out FIRST, and if you can LEGALLY get it passed/exempted, I'd say.... GO FOR IT! Otherwise....?????

Just my
Kurt

 

Without considering emissions, I have around $2500 into mine. That's a 350 bored .030 over and includes brand new vortec heads.

 

So it sounds like it's not a terrible idea. I'd defiantly go with a junkyard monster.

~$2,000 really isn't that bad. I would also need to fix the interior of the car, but i'm not worried about that. I can handle that much, and really, it's no big deal for me. I could possibly just tear alot of it out, make it just a dragster. But yeah, anyway, looks like I may have a "project car" finally.

About emissions....I THINK it should be ok. If not, there's always less-than-legal ways of getting an inspection sticker....OR, depending on how long it takes to finish this, it may even be considered a classic. IIRC 25 years qualifies as a classic, and if it's registered as that, emissions don't matter. It's at 18 right now. Figure it WILL probably take me a few years to do it, because I work at a snails pace (I really know very little currently....for instance, I don't know the operational difference between a cam and a head...I know what they ARE seperately, but I don't know what they DO)

 

What you need to look for is what I didn't look for when I bought my car...the body. I purchased mine with the intent of making it a project car. Mission accomplished (I can sit in a lawn chair where the 305 was). I didn't pay enough attention to how much rust was on the car. Needless to say I will be doing another engine swap after a few years when I pick up another body. If the body is solid then the rest is an investment.

 

I just saw where you said the body is in great shape. I say you've got it made.

 

One more question....thinking about it a bit.....

Would be better to simply junk it and just BUY one with a V8 in it already? I mean, for 2,000.....i'm sure I could find one in decent shape.

 

Ladiesmanwc,
If those New Jersey emissions laws are as difficult as I recall, you are might be better off.... You did mention in the first post that you weren't too handy so that could be another contributing factor.

[IMPO] However, I wouldn't toss that V-6 until AFTER you purchase your V-8 and take the opportunity to swap into it anything that is in better shape (i.e. seating, trim, accessories,). You're probably not going to get more than a couple hundred bucks for a car without an operable engine anyway so your not giving up much of anything and potentially gaining a bunch of basically FREE upgrade parts.

It could be more of a PITA than it is worth but you could probably make a few hundred additional bucks on the old TURD selling off a couple parts on the TGO/E-Bay and STILL get the standard $100/150 from the J.Yard that tows it away..... Just a thought but it could be more of a PITA than it's worth.

Sincerely,
Kurt

 

NJ emissions do suck.....but you'd figure a fairly stock 350 from another f-body should be alright? Even if, i'm pretty sure I could get it inspected on the down low.

I'm just thinking though, I mean, I DO see alot of F-bodies in pretty good shape for around 2,000. I figured swapping in a V8 would be less expensive than simply buying one with it already there.

Quote:

[IMPO] However, I wouldn't toss that V-6 until AFTER you purchase your V-8 and take the opportunity to swap into it anything that is in better shape (i.e. seating, trim, accessories,). You're probably not going to get more than a couple hundred bucks for a car without an operable engine anyway so your not giving up much of anything and potentially gaining a bunch of basically FREE upgrade parts.

Heh, there's really not much that i'd swap. As I noted above, the interior is shot. Every part of it. The outside looks real nice, the inside is destroyed. If I did the engine swap to the V6, i'd want to fix the interior in that, as well.

Quote:

It could be more of a PITA than it is worth but you could probably make a few hundred additional bucks on the old TURD selling off a couple parts on the TGO/E-Bay and STILL get the standard $100/150 from the J.Yard that tows it away..... Just a thought but it could be more of a PITA than it's worth.

Sincerely,
Kurt

Possibly. Heh, the car cost me $800. If I could get that back i'd be more than happy. That was my original plan for the car.....I was hoping it would last me about a year, i'd fix the interior, and try to sell it for ~1,000. That backfired....

 

LadiesManWC,

Why do you need/want a V-8 anyway? A V-6 would certainly be better on fuel, the insurance IS cheaper. You can do a few things to a V-6 to get a little punch out of her if you like. These F-Body cars are very handsome regardless of what is under the hood! I have a friend "RedRaif" (look her up on this site) she has WON numerous car shows and she's driving a V-6 Firebird. You should take a look at that car it is beautiful Inside, Outside, Under the Hood. This car will turn heads!

RedRaif's Ride

You could probably get a V-6 from a J.Yard for almost nothing, maybe as little as $50! If you ask the J.Yard for a warranty most will give you a 90 day exchange for as little as an extra $50. Now you've got to do some homework and take a look at the vehicle it's coming out of (sometimes that's not possible) but if you were to find a wreck with low-ish miles....WHY NOT?

Some of the guys around here are much too over zealous about bigger bigger bigger.....which may in some cases only equate to More$, More Work, LESS reliability, Emissions Violations, Etc. Etc. Besides.... Those little imports with nitrous 2.0's and 3.0's will KILL them at the track!

Let's do some math here.....
J.Yard Motor $150
That's the absolute MAXIMUM $$ for a V-6 with a 90-Day Exchange Warranty, I don't care where you live!
Parts and Supplies to make the install $200 +/-
Oil, Filter, Hoses, Anti-freeze, etc. You'd need this much regardless of what engine you use and the little stuff adds up!
Interior seating $100 +/-.
We puchased an entire 4th Gen set (cloth) for $100
Carpeting $150 +/-
Several outfits sell on-line pre-formed.
Misc. J.Yard Interior Parts $100
Go to a Pull-It-Yourself Yard and get all the little stuff.....

For about $250 you get back on the road with a car you have already mentioned looks pretty good on the outside. You don't have to worry about Emissions and you get some experience fixing things. For about $700 (total) you get your interior back to good condition.

There is always a change you could get a bad V-6 but if you make it clear to the J.Yard... they will give you the best one they have. You've mentioned your budget is very tight so this could be a good plan... Years ago (when I was a good bit younger), I installed J.Yard motors directly into vehicles and did little more than change the oil and got years out of them!

That's just my
Kurt

 

Putting another V6 in it would defeat the purpose of the car. It's an American muscle car.....a 2.8 V6 is hardly what I would call "muscle". Now, if I were to rebuild this car as a daily driver, MAYBE I would consider putting a V6 back into it. That's the only reason I bought a V6 in the first place. It was cheap, and I need a car. But to do the extra work to put a V6 back in there, especially since I HAVE a car and don't particularly need this one just really seems self-defeating.

Besides, i've always wanted a V8. I want to get a V8 before they really do become undrivable in a few years because of stupid gas costs.

Basically, I was fairly unhappy with the car when it was a V6, but I didn't mind so much only because I got the car so damn cheap. But I can't justify spending the money, and doing all the work, only to build a car i'll be unhappy with again. Hell, I wouldn't even be happy with a 305 V8. The whole point of this car is to have a big motor. Otherwise.....why not just get like, a Sunfire or a Cavalier or something?

I WANT bad gas mileage!!!!!

 

ladiesmanwc,

OK. IMPO your next step should be to determine EXACTLY what N.J.'s requirements are for emission inspection. You've got a few more years (probably a minimum) to deal with emissions and you need to know what will and what will NOT pass. Some states offer NO exemption from Emissions and test cars all the way back to the early '70's!!!!

My state doesn't look at anything except what comes out of the tailpipe or what the computer says on OBDII (GA). Other states look at every single piece of the car (PA). Even if the later is the case in N.J., you might be able to "UPGRADE" to a bigger engine and maybe they test it based upon the "NEWER" engine. It would seem regardless, you're most-likely stuck with an emission controlled engine (which isn't a bad thing) unless you've got some method of getting a "SPECIAL" inspection every year for several years.

In GA my son's set-up should pass. It's CCC-Q-Jet, CC-Dizzy, Non-Air Cat. Converter, and completely operational computer should keep the TailPipe gasses to an acceptable level. However, Five7Kid has pointed out to us our set-up would be a failure in his state (CO) as we installed an older block (from a Chevy Truck) into our Z-28. Actually, I guess we're in violation of Federal Law by making any sort of change to the car, but if they give us a valid inpection sticker we're not too worried about the FEDS knocking on the door. Each state is different, maybe some of the guys on the N.E. Region board can lend some information and point you in the right direction.

IMPO - You have to do a significant amount of research, ask questions of NJ DMV (document the answers), and figure out what is and is not acceptable. If you do the research, you'll avoid all the headaches some guys are going to have as emissions inspections get tougher and more widespread every year.

Sincerely,
Kurt

P.S. My son's V-8 350 (aka "American Muscle") runs very very well but would get killed at the track by one of those little imports running nitrous or turbo or whatever. The new GTO's, Mustangs, and Corvettes will also certainly leave it eating gobs of dust as well.

 

I'm not really particularly worried about speed. If I was going to build something to be stupid fast, i'd get a 91 Civic hatchback and toss a B19 in it and run 13's without anything else. It would probably cost about as much as the V8 engine swap into the Firebird.....including the car.

I'm more in it for the style of the car. It requires a V8, and a big one at that. They shouldn't even make these cars in V6's. I simply can't stand imports, so regarldess of how fast they may be, i'll never drive one. I'd rather drive my slower V8 than be stuck in one of those things farting down the road. Hell, if it's as fast as my freinds bone stock 89 Mustang 5.0, i'd be VERY happy. That's PLENTY fast. Hell, if it's even as fast as my current everyday driver, a 95 Thunderbird i'd be happy. That thing actually moves pretty nicely.

About the emissions, AFAIK they DO test emissions, and they do test...well...EVERYTHING on the car. BUT, and this is only from what I understand, they hold it up to that years standards. So, my 1987 Firebird will only be held to 1987 standards.

But as I said, i'm not entirely worried about inspection. I can defiantly get it inspected, regardless of HOW I actually do it.