PDye

Okay,
I just did a BBC swap this past summer. Had some things happen in the family so I had to put the project on the back burner. This past weekend I went out a changed the stock fuel lines and hooked up a Holley Blue electric fuel pump, bought from the infamous eBay "like new". The car idles perfect, sounds really good, but when ever I try to drive it the car will stall out at about 3000ish RPMs. The fuel pump sounds like a friggin dying cat in the back and the tone and sound it makes tends to change. No kidding I can hear the fuel pump over the car that has a 454 with a healthy cam, 3 in straight pipe going into dual flowmasters. It is VERY loud. I just REALLY want to make sure this thing isn't supposed to sound like that. Can't afford, literally and figuratively, to go buying parts with really knowing. Anyone else running a Holley Blue and if so does it sound like a dying cat? Oh yeah, I looked at the pressure gauge I have hooked up and it is really fluctuating, we're talking jumping between 3 lbs and 10 lbs without me touching it.


Thanks,
Phil

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

you probably need to run a return style regulator. my holley blues--the 2 I have on my camaro both sound like a loud screeching sound, louder than my dual exhaust and cam'n SBC as well. I would buy a quality autometer guage to set your fuel pressure if you're basing it off those cheap 1.5" ones mounted near the carb.

PDye

Xpndbl3,
Wow, I just realized I can not spell. What the crap is a Hooley? Anyway, yes I was using one of those crappy little $5 gauges. Which means I
probably didn't have the pressure adjusted right. Already order a Holley gauge, about 5 minutes ago. You mentioned you are running to pumps. I still have the stock pump in my tank and seeing as the Holley Blue is a pusher type pump that relies on the fuel coming from the tank to it through gravity, should I hook the other pump up as well to give the pusher from the tank to the Blue? Thanks for the help!
Phil

AlkyIROC

You should hear my BG400 pump. I use a return style regulator so it's always pumping at maximum.

The Holley blue pump is unregulated at 15 psi. You need to use some sort of fuel pressure regulator with it. You don't need to use a return style regulator but it's worth it. A standard deadhead regulator somewhere in the engine compartment between the pump and the carb. Adjust the pressure to 5-7 psi with the engine running. With the pump deadheaded and the engine off, it should pump quickly until pressure builds up then slow down to a steady, slow, click, click, click or stop clicking all together. Once the engine is running and there's a fuel demand, the clicking will increase. If using a return style regulator, the pump will be a continuous buzz.

You can also do a flow test from the pump. Unregulated, time the pump to fill one gallon. How much fuel it pumps depends on how fast the car will go. On the low end of the scale, a 12 second car needs to pump one gallon in about 35 seconds. A 9 second car needs to pump a gallon of fuel in 20 seconds. I'm not sure what the exact spec is for the blue pump but that can give you an idea on how much fuel it's actually pumping. If it's taking over a minute to pump one gallon, then the pump probably needs to be rebuilt.

I'm wondering if you need to remove the factory fuel pump from the tank to use an external pump?

PDye

The factory pump is not connected to power, but is still physically in the tank. I will do the pump test you described above. I just think it is a fuel issue, because it seems like the car is starving for fuel. The ignition is good (MSD distributor, coil and 6A box). The timing is dead on, with the car sitting in park I can go to WOT and it sounds great, but once pressure it actually put on the motor, while in gear, it wants to die at about 3000 RPM. It starts right back up after stalling though. I have drove the car with this motor before, just seems like something went wrong recently and I am thinking it is in the fuel department, partially because of the change in sound from the pump I hear and because it is so loud.

Really appreciate everyones help!
Thanks,
Phil

deckervincent

That pump comes with a regulator straight from Holley. If you dont have a regulator on it you need one. I put one on my friends Monte and my dads Belair. They run about 7 psi on those vehicles wich are both small blocks. And the monte has a 350 with headers and 3" glasspacks and you can't hear the pump while the car is running, that is a very quiet pump. You can buy the pump and regulator from Autozone for like a 110 bucks if you dont want to order it online. And can get the regulator from jegs for 30 bucks.
Kinda off subject, but what headers did you use for your installation? Im on some down time with the motor build and I've been doing some research.

PDye

I have the regulator that came with the pump and it is hooked up. It is the single inlet, dual outlet one. I have one of the outlet plugged and the other feeding the carb. My cheap fuel pressure gauge is hooked to the feeder line on the carb. That is where I am reading the fluctuating pressure (3psi to 10ish psi). I ordered a Holley gauge and hopefully will have it later ths week to better read my pressure. As for my headers I have the hooker super comp ones. I bought them from a guy at racingjunk.com so they were already pre-"dented" to slide right in. I really like them even though they sit so low.
Thanks,
Phil

AlkyIROC

There's your problem. You're reading unregulated pressure. Put the gauge on the other outlet port of the regulator. You want to measure regulated pressure.

deckervincent

It is reading regulated pressure 87 IRCOC. The guage is on the dual fuel inlet line. The guage is a pos prob the same thing my friend put on his monte. The way i did mine is I screwed the pressure screw all the way out (while the car isnt running) and then screwed it all the way in. i think it went in 14 or 15 complete turns. The pump is a 14 psi max. wich theoretically speaking half of the turns should be half of the pressure. I did it that way since the guage bounced around. It has ran fine since i installed it

AlkyIROC

I misread where the gauge was. Don't assume half the turns is half the pressure. Because of how spring pressure works, it's not always linear.

deckervincent

Yes very true, but he could use that method while hes waiting on his guage just to see if it help the problem

PDye

Really appreciate all your help. Just to throw another wrench into the issue. I have one of those glass fuel filters in the fuel line running from the regulator to the carb. I noticed a lot of "air bubbles" (don't really no how else to describe them) in the glass filter. I checked the line and nothing is leaking. But fuel mixed with air still "belches" into the filter. All the fuel lines are new and so is the fuel filter. They are not leaking. What about the stock pump? Should I maybe try hooking that up to feed the Holley Blue? Or should I drop the tank and completely take the old pump out? I know this has something to do with fuel. The car idles pefect, starts up turn key, but dies as soon as I try to drive it as if it is running out of gas. But a second later it starts right back up. It seems like the pump isn't pumping fast enough to me. However, sitting at an idle in park I can bring the car to WOT and it works fine. Tomorrow I will go out and unhook the line and try the gallon timed test thing mentioned earlier. I will let everyone know what happens.

Thanks,
Phil

AlkyIROC

Idle at WOT doesn't put a load on the engine where it requires a high demand for fuel. It sounds like you have a fuel starvation problem. I had a 4x4 pickup truck like that back in the 80's. After troubleshooting it all day long, I finally found a kinked fuel line along the frame where a branch had jammed itself into the fuel line.

If you have any rubber fuel lines, check to see if they're kinked. Get rid of that cheap glass filter and install a real fuel filter. The glass filter also won't allow you to pass a tech inspection if you every go to a dragstrip. Remove as much rubber fuel line as possible. Run a hard line or a steel braided line as much as you can. Only use short chunks of rubber fuel line to join connections.

Since you can see bubbles in the glass filter, it sounds like the pump is sucking air from somewhere. Since there's no fuel leak, you know it's not after the pump.

PDye

I have aluminum line running from the tank to the regulator. The only rubber line I have is from the regulator to the feeder line for the carb. I just put the line in and there are no kinks. The old return lines from the stock fuel system have been blocked. What about on the fuel pump itself? Can the seals on it go bad and suck in air?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

do you have 14 volts going to the pump? also the reason there's bubbles in that filter is because it is never "filled" to the top with gas, those filters suck, bypass and see how it runs that way. Hooking a fuel pressure guage to the regulator and mounting it on the windshield would be nice to know if psi drops.

PDye

I knew the filter never actually filled up, but what I was talking about was the thing would basically look like it was burping fuel into the filter. I wasn't any constant level, it was always adjusting dramatically. I am going to take the feeder line and the glass filter off when I get the new pressure gauge tomorrow. I will run aluminum line from the regulator to the carb. Just adding rubber line at the ends to allow for some flexing. I will let you know how it turns out.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

ok post back and let us know how it worked out

Neil87Z28

I have a Holley blue pump feeding my 427 BBC IROC Z. I use -8 AN Aeroquip line and a Mallory regulator. The pump is very loud and the pitch of the pump varies at idle because the voltage to the pump varies at idle rpm (underdrive pullies). My pump delivered a constant, regulated 6.5psi during a 425rwhp dyno run on a Dynojet.

PDye

I went out yesterday and was messing with the car. I still don't have the new pressure gauge, get that today, but I was reading pressure on the cheap gauge I have. I tried adjusting the regulator and the pressure didn't change, which makes me think the pump isn't the problem. Especially since everyone says the pump should be loud and changing in pitch. As soon as I get the Holley gauge I will go out and see what it can tell me. I will also run the aluminum line today. Thanks for everyones help!

PDye

Alright, got the new Holley pressure gauge. Hooked it up and set the pressure to 6.5 psi while the car was not running. Walked to the other side of the car and came back. Guess what? The pressure jumped to 9 psi. So I decided to try something. I turned the pump off then turned it back on, the pressure went to 6.5. I let it, the pump, run for a minute and checked it again. Now it dropped to 0. This continued to happen the rest of the time I was out there. This can not be normal can it? Pretty sure the friggin thing is supposed to stay where you set it, right? Just to make sure everyone knows what I have for a fuel system here it is:

Stock tank, old pump still in but not hooked up
3/8 aluminum fuel line running from the tank to a stock camaro fuel filter
more aluminum line running to the fuel pump
then there is aluminum line running to the firewall where I have attached one of the stock ruber fuel lines. This way I have a little flexibilty in the line as it runs to the regulator.
After the stock rubber hose I have more aluminum line running to the regulator, which is attached with about 2" of rubber hose.
after the regulator I have another piece of rubber hose, about 2", attached to aluminum line that runs to the carb feeder.

There is nothing cinked or leaking. Have I mentioned I am begining to hate ths fuel pump?

I think my pump is in the crapper. Any thoughts?

Thanks for any help.
Phil

AlkyIROC

The pumps can be rebuilt.

Take some hose and attach it to the pump inlet. Put the hose in a jug of gas and retest like you did before. If the engine isn't running, the regulator should deadhead the pump so it won't empty the container. This will tell if you have a suction problem before the pump. It's possible the pump itself is sucking air.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

do the gas can test to see if you have fuel volume, also it could be a clogged stock fuel filter. Not sure what holley guage you're using but I still hope it's no the cheap 1.5" ones and is actually a real pressure guage like an autometer.

PDye

Understand your dislike for the cheap fuel pressure gauges, but the gauge isn't what is causing my problem, believe me I wish I had one of those really nice Autometer gauges, but alas my poor self can't afford one...(Christmas with two kids and all). Anyway, here is a link to the gauge I bought:
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
Also, I just changed the stock fuel filter when I ran the fuel line. I forgot to mention that yesterday when I was watching the pressure drop on the gauge I could hear the fuel pump making different noises. The tone of the pump would change and the pressure would adjust with it. I also tried doing the gas can method mentioned first. The one where I disconnect the line from the carb and see how fast it comes out. I believe I could pee faster than it was pumping.
I think I am going to hook the old stock pump back up and see what happens.

Thanks for everyone's help!
Phil

pondriver

iTrader: (2)

Just from reading from others experience, leaving the in tank fuel pump in can cause problems.