here's the pics for those that requested them, I can take more specific pictures just let me know...

It appears to be a 85-90 olds 307, I haven't taken the time to locate the head casting numbers yet, and the car is a 1987 firebird, originally equipped with a v6
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I love it!!

It is a mess but I love it just the same!

Thanks for the pics!

 

I like the look of the olds V8, nice and wide

I will clean it up and start the overhaul soon...it came with some parts in the trunk that I didn't know about so I already have some "free" parts lol

 

what sort of overhaul?

 

Going to try and get it running...

Basically have to re-setup everything to a basic, just motor setup (hopefully)

 

A Buick 350 quadrajet from 1980 or before and any olds distributor from 1975 to 1980 should get your engine on track. The 350 Buick has the closest metering rod setup to what you need.

The 307 will run pretty well with a 350 Olds 4 barrell but its a little rich. You'll want to ditch the heads pretty quickly along with the intake due to the extra small ports. They will get you by for a while until you find some good used parts.

When you are ready to replace or repair the engine, don't. There are MANY Olds V8 engines available in the wrecking yards that make better cores than the one you have. Just run what you have until you are ready to trade up.

If you need help finding parts, let me know, I have a pretty good selection of stuff in NW Ohio and can get what I don't have.

Good luck!

 

I live in olds-town (lansing michigan) so the junk yards are filled w/ olds...

After I tool around w/ the engine a little, I may just look for a pre-80 olds engine to swap in it's place...car isn't really worth much but it would make a cool beater.

I'll keep my eyes out for some olds V8's in the meanwhile, now i just need to tear-down the engine bay and setup everything

anyone know how much hp/tq a 200r4 can hold?

 

You know, an Olds 455 will drop right in where that motor is...

 

Most 2004r transmissions will last behind a mild V8. They came stock in the Grand Nationals and the 89 Turbo Trans Ams. It doesn't cost much to beef one up. I have been running one stock from an 84 delta 88 in my 80 Cutlass with a 350 Olds engine with nothing but success.

You will be happy with it. Run a Buick 3.8 V6 torque converter in it to give yourself about 1800 rpm stall speed. Pretty close to the old "Saturday Night Special" converter. The Buick and Olds engines use a flat faced flexplate and you can swap torque converters between them without using washers and such. The Pontiac and Chevy engines have "humps" on the flexplate where the torque converter bolts on and use a bolt with a self locking nut to attach the converter from the factory. The Buick and Olds engines have torque converters with square blocks welded on and they are drilled and tapped from the factory. They use flanged head bolts and are a nice setup.

You can use a 27 spline converter from any 200 4r, 200, 200c, or pre 84 700r4 with the 27 spline input shaft. Mine is from a 200C. For reliabiltiy purposes you really only need to upgrade your input shaft and a few other small parts to support 400 hp regularly.

Good luck!

 

Hopefully it is understood that there is a difference between a TH200C and TH200-4R.

 

I used a torque converter for a Cadillac 4100 with a 2004R in my 1988 Cadillac Fleetwood. Behind my built up 307 it stalled at about 2,400 rpm.

 

LOL that is certainly different. It's no 350 chevy but I give bonus points for that being so different. At least it's not a 60 deg. V6, super bonus points for not having that.

 

The guy that rebuilt my 700R, his father does 200R's and he claimed that he had customers running in the 10's with his trans' Also he preferred with high HP applications to eliminate the Torque convertor lockup and has never had a problem. ( I am sure there is more to deactivating the Lockup than unplugging it I believe he does some other work on the trans to accomplish it)

 

Thanks a lot.....

 

I can vouch for that... a buddy of mine with an '87 Cutlass 442 uses the 200 behind his 425ci Olds engine. Last season it was running deep in the 12s and held up just fine.

 

I actually did not know there was two 200 trannys, it is a 200 not sure which, will find out.

Yep, there should be room for a big block with hood modification (hood is trashed anyways...may be an option after trying to get the 307 running, but I'm pretty sure it will actually be easier to swap a "running" olds v8 in there rather than fix up an engine that i dont even kno if it runs or not...

Cant tell if the tranny is good, cant tell how the suspension and brakes are, so many things I have to figure out, but the engine is first in line lol

 

The 200 and 200C are three speed trannys. They look very similar to a Turbo 350 except that the tailshaft housing doesn't come off.

The 2004R is a 4 speed tranny with overdrive. It has a really big and weird shaped pan that goes all the way back to the tranny mount. It doesn't look like any other kind of tranny. The tailshaft housing doesn't come off this one, either.

Both pans should say METRIC on them but the 200 pan looks like a TH350 pan

 

Ok, this pan is odd shaped, I know what a 350 looks like and this is defienetely different, it's been awhile but it appears to be the same as my old 84 delta 88 w/ a 4spd so as of now i believe it's a 4spd
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also, what other engines will "bolt" into the current setup, I was thinking if a buick 3.8 would work?!?

what about buick v8's? or are they different mounts

 

that will be really cool when done! keep us posted....

 

Buick V8s are different mounts but can be made to work. I put a 350 Buick in an 84 T/A. I also put a 350 Olds in a firebird but I used different mounts than you have on your engine.

The rear wheel drive Buick V6 will bolt to your trans. If you're gonna do that then use the 4.1. Bigger is better...

Check the bellhousing of your transmission by feeling behind the distributor where your engine/trans bolt together. Many of the 2004R transmissions came in universal mount pattern which means that the chevy pattern is also cast into the bellhousing. If that is the case then you have even more options.

Buick/Olds/Pontiac/Cadillac are the normal bolt patterns that match your engine.

 

IT RUNS!!!

I got it running today...I ran a wire from the starter, to the cabin, to a switch, to the battery...flip the starter switch and turn the key and it fires right up LOL

but yea, i was quite pleased, there is still a ton of cleaning up and organizing to do, as well as a freeze plug and radiator to install but it looks like the 307 will be staying for the time being

 

go to www.realoldspower.com Its a GREAT message board for oldsmobile engine info. A lot of knowledge on that board.

If I were you, I would definitely ditch the 307. Why not find yourself a nice olds 350 if you want some sort of economy, or a 455 if you want to go all out? Actually the 403 isnt as bad of an engine as people make it out to be, as well. As long as you build it smart, you can make good power with it. Just dont turn it over 5500 rpms or so

Congrats for making it work.

 

I registered about 2 weeks ago, but the approval never came back

So any other olds boards?

Power isn't an issue as of now, just get it running...the car will be really light so it wont need much power to get it going for what I need...but a 455 is a future goal

 

An Olds 307?

Why do such a wasteful swap??

 

I have an 86 Cutlass Supreme with one of those engines, very nice. Powerful and economic.

 

haha the owner before me did the swap...stock 2.8 = 130hp, 307 = 140hp

but lots of tq, it may be adequate for me, I've gutted the car and plan on installing some 4.10's and LSD...

but am looking for an olds 455

and as for economical...eh my 84 delta 88 307 4spd got 20mpg highway, but that thing was a BOAT

 

Is that why the 87 firebird parts are for sale? I was getting worried that you were scrapping the car when I saw the parts for sale...

 

An extra 2cyl and 5 hp? I am sure more torque, but even LT1 motors are cheap swaps these days.

A Olds 455 will be nothing but a boat anchor unless you install one that is built up. I believe that motor may actually be too wide for the engine bay anyways.

In that case, for what you would spend you might as well get a TPI or LT1 motor and build that for much less money and much more power-per-dollar.

 

^^ Yea it has 250ftlbstq tho which is nice...really this is just a for fun project, power is not a huge deal. But eventually I may get into an engine swap, I'd keep it olds bc it's already setup for one lol Prob a 350 or 403...

although I believe there is enough room easily for a 455, they cost a bit to much for me and they are an arm and a leg to build ($$$ wise)

yea the full interior minus a few parts is for sale lol no need for me

 

I had an 86 Cutlass Salon with a 307 with the swirl ported 7A heads and a 200-r4 transmission with a 3.08 open differential. It was great to drive. Started and ran fine in the cold weather, good gas mileage, good highway acceleration, and cheap to keep running. It finally got stolen in D.C. and three days later after 5 armed robberies was in high speed flight from DC's finest (I use the term losely because it took a day for them to even figure out how to report it stolen, and the only reason it was being chased is because the theives removed the tags). The two guys ran at over 100 according to the cops and got away, so it couldn't be that slow, right? I finally got it back after they abandoned it later that night, and had to replace the freeze plugs but that was about it. I sold it for $600, and the guy who bought it has really cleaned it up and dropped in a newish 350 chevy.

 

I removed a bunch of **** from the car, including almost all the wires in the engine bay to rig up a completely new, custom electrical setup.

Also found out it has the 5A heads, meaning it is actually an 80-84 engine, just has the 86+ manifolds...

Replacing a freeze plug and then rigging up the belt and it should be ready to start, I'm gonna replace the carb with a simplier edelbrock carb to reduce the vacuum mess on the intake.

I had a 84 delta 88 w/ the same drivetrain and although the speedo only went up to 85, I would guess I was going at least 110mph in that boat

 

That's good; your 5A heads allow a direct bolt on of the older small block manifolds and have pretty good size ports. You just need a stock 330/350/403 intake and then port match the intake ports to the bathtub intake gasket from the engine that the manifold came from.

You're running later model tubular manifolds, I guess? They actually work okay on stock stuff but I would ditch them for regular 70's or older manifolds.

Also you can run a stock smogger 455 cam since you don't have a factory roller cam block. It's not too much in stock form.

Have fun!

 

I was actually thinking of doing the same swap for a bit until I pick up a motor and trans that I want in the car. at least I'd be able to drive it. I have a 90 firebird with no motor that originally came with the 3.1L. So, I may do this in the next week or so. Unless I sell something and pick up a newer 350 and 6-speed.

 

excellent!!!

long live the revolution!!

 

I've decided that I'm gonna give her a try for now. anyone know where I can find a wiring diagram for a 90 firebird?

 

dude...there are so many wires I said **** it and ripped everything out...

good luck trying to get the original system to work...

As of now, I have removed everything from the car, all wires, harness, heater, ac, all tubing, everything, I'll post some pics up...

it's amazing how much space that freed up!!!

 

About 20 bucks or so...

Chilton's total car car manual. They sell them at O'reilly's and Autozone I think...

They have great wiring diagrams. Haynes aren't bad, either...

 

hey bad influence, where did you put the motor mounts in reference to the holes that are there? I didn't want to have to lower the motor in to see where they'll go and then pull it back out... just trying to save some time.

 

I'm pretty sure he bought the car already rigged!

Maybe he can post some close ups of the frame brackets where they are bolted down...

 

Well at least this guy will make a crossfire owner proud someday

 

????

Is that because it takes more mods to make crossfire work good than it takes to make an Olds powered f body run good??

 

Crossfires are a PITA to keep running properly due to the goofy throttle body set up.

 

Nah, this way CFI owners have something to beat.

 

well, not everyone can start out with a high revving, high compression small block like you must have in all of your cars. Some people have to take a few steps to get there.

 

Complete TPI motors are pretty cheap these days. Unless you got the Olds motor for free, I don't see the point of dropping this engine.

 

It was actually free. If I had the money, I'd go with an LS1 and T-56 out of a newer f-body or gto.