I have a stock 89 GTA w/ 5.7L V8 350 TPI. I'm looking at upgrading to either a 2001 LS1 or an older LT 1. Things I need to know: can my car handle either without major modification, which one would be better for high bhp for a daily driver, and which one is easier/cheaper to mod. Thank you very much.

 

The LS1 has OBD II, and depending which year the LT1 is you may also have OBD II.

You'll definitely need the ECM and harness for either engine...but I suspect the LS1 will require more sensors and research to work.

Have you investigated rebuilding/modding your existing L98?

 

I've read through a lot of this site, and in magazines like HPP and such, but I was more impressed with the LS1. I've found more info about modding/fixing up it, and to better/easier results. I am a first time modder, so I was looking at the easiest/most reliable choice for my price range (which the LS1 fits nicely). The reason I included the LT1 was I wasn't sure that the LS1 would fit as well. The real reason I want to change my motor is because the transmission is on its last legs, and I was going to replace it, so I thought that if I was going to get a new engine, this would be the time to decide. Thanks for the input, and for putting up with my novice questions.

 

The reason you see more articles on the LS1 is that is the lastest technology. Oh the LS1 can develop some impressive power, but you will need virtually the entire powertrain from the LS1, fashion your own motor mounts and good luck on getting an exhaust system to fit.

If you add up the total cost, I think you'll find a 383 with AFR/Miniram or Fastburn/Ramjet (still some parts needed) will be cheaper than the LS1, powertrain, ECM, harness and related sensors. And that is just a stock LS1. The power of the 383 with either of those heads/intakes should be able to surpass the performance of the LS1.

And if you are a real glutton for power, you can either look at a 400 SBC or a BBC. Add a Supercharger...and now your really talking power. Remember, when you put your LS1 in a 3rd gen, common performance parts like headers and supercharges will not be able readily available for bolting in.

Lastly, if you emissions to deal with, you may find that your intended engine swap options are quite limited. MAKE SURE you check the validity of any intended engine swap you may want to do if you are subject to emission testing.

But I must caution you that swapping these new engines is not as easy as the good old days and is really something that requires a lot of investigation for a first hot rodder. It is definitely not a beginner's place to start.

So don't write off your "feabile old" L98. It is still a Chevy and one of the best Gen 1 motors out there: 1 piece rear seal and roller cam. The Gen 1 SBC is still one of the cheapest and easiest engines to build up , excluding the fuel injection. But it is one of the easiest fuel injection systems to modify too, just not that cheap to do.

 

Ill second that miniram and AFR 383. that sounds much cheaper than an LT1 or LS1 swap and will easily blow away either. Stick with the 1st Gen design small block, there are more parts and the like......you wont be dissapointed.

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91 RS W/carbed 350, Vortec heads, performer rpm, Comp cams Xtreme energy 280 grind. BFG Drag radials. 3.42 posi,Corvette servoed 700r4, ****ty stock converter
13.24@104

 

Thank you very much, guys! This is exactily what I needed to know. Now if you'll forgive just one more newbie question/stipulation. I plan on using this car as my daily driver, so I wanted to make sure that it is street legal, and will run on 92 octane gas (the best I have access to). If you can just post a quick assurance to that fact, I'd be very grateful.

 

If I were you I would put in a 383 stroker and use the same fuel injection setup with a few modifications, you could get well over 400 hp with this setup but don't forget to upgrade your trans to handle all that power and you'll probably need a new rear end.

 

An LT1 swap isn't that bad, it can be done quite cost effectively and easily. But you already have a TPI 350, why stray from it? You can get the motor rebuilt to a 355, and put forged pistons in. Then get your self AFR heads, LPE219 cam, and a superram setup. You'll be running 12's guaranteed and you'll LOVE the low end torque. It's also much cheaper than stroking your current engine.

 

You've already got a 350TPI, so why not get a 383 kit for it? Then when money becomes available upgrade to a Miniram or by that time SDPC might have a RamJet kit... Note do headers when you drop in new engine.


Your other options:
LT1 swap, sorta cheap, but the wiring is going to suck. 93 CPU would allow you to use 700-r4, 94+ CPU requires a L460-E trans, unless you get a custom chip, which mould mean more money down the dumper. 96-97 CPU are OBDII. No matter what you'll have to bypass VATS or get a new module. Can use 3rdgen headers.

LS1 swap, custom motor mounts, need LS1 trans, need LS1 fuel pump or you'll get an improper code which will make your car run in limp mode (for the doubters ask LS1IROC about that.) wiring is going to suck just like LT1. Hooker headers for LS1 will clear 3rdgen frame, need custom y-pipe. Not sure about guages.

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1989 Camaro RS LO3 WCT5 "The Hose Queen" 0-60' 2.34 1/4 15.8@87mph
http://350.StreetRacing.org

 

stay around 9.5:1 compression ratio and youll be fine on 93 octane

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91 RS W/carbed 350, Vortec heads, performer rpm, Comp cams Xtreme energy 280 grind. BFG Drag radials. 3.42 posi,Corvette servoed 700r4, ****ty stock converter
13.24@104

 

One more question: If I was to change to a 385 afr, would I have to get an entirely new fuel system? A lot of the sites that I've been looking at for the engines list it as needing a carburetor, and as I understand it, my TPI doesn't have one. Is there a way to get a TPI working with this engine, or would I have to change to a carb? Also, once I get this new, more powerful engine, would I need to get a better fuel pump? Thanks very much.

 

i agree to stick with the tpi.
but if you must ditch it, i think the lt1 is the more cost effective rout. to date there are more go fast goodies available to them, and can easilly be worked to make huge hp. the ls1 would be faster un-modded, but those engines are totally redesinged, who knows what you'd run into.
i swapped a v6 to a tpi v8 and ened up haveing to re-wire the whole damn car. front to back!not fun. its these little things that make keeping the tpi a good choice. for the price of one of those engines and parts to convert, you'd have enough to supercharge the tpi or something.

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88 CAMARO RS
87 IROC-Z DRIVETRAIN
305 TPI, 700R4, 3.73s
ported plenum, performance resource chip,edelbrock TES Headers and cat-back, K&Ns, AFPR, rest is stock.
15.0 @ 92.5 (bald tires)

 

Take your car to a speed shop and talk to them. Tell them what you are looking for powerwise and how much you want to spend. There is no reason to switch to an LT1 or a LS1. That would be an overwhelming task for a first timer. Your L98 can make plenty of horse power. Im not sure what you were talking about with the carb/TPI thingy. TPI means Tuned Port Injection. TPI is a fuel injection system. There is no carburator involved. A carb is just s different type of fuel delivery system. A carb just lets fuel be sucked into the engine by the vacume that the pistons create. A TPI or an fuel injection system actually Injects fuel by spraying it into the intake tract with pressure. TPI is a great system and it is one of the simplest fuel injection systems to work with. How many miles are on your car? Is it buring any oil or anything that would make it need a rebuild? If not, you can do simple things to add power to the car, such as headers, a new computer chip, a throttle body airfoil, a gear in the rear end. Any of these will be relatively cheap and you will feel a lot more power. If you do need a rebuild, im gona go with everyone else and say do a 383. A 383 is when you take the crankshaft from a 400 cubic inch chevy and put it into the 350ci block. That makes the stroke of the engine longer, which is why they call it stroking. You will see very good horse power and torue outputs with this setup. Again, talk to a machine shop or a speed shop for more ideas. Good luck with your project. Email me if you have questions on anything. I dont know it all, but I think I do

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1988 IROC-Z 350 TPI
(its an original 350 car)
License Plate: STG KLR 1
Engine Mods:
Edlebrock TES Headers, Hypertech Chip, Flowmaster Muffler, Intake Airfoil, Removed MAF Screens, bored .030 over, Other minor mods
Trans Mods:
2,500 stall converter, Redline clutches,Heavy Duty Steels, Trans-Go reprograming kit , Heavy Duty 2-4 band, Corvette Servo, B&M Mega Shifter w/ Carbon Fiber Handle (looks sweet in a black car!)

Best Time So far: 14.104@99.66 Told you id go faster
"If you can put it on your car, its fair" Quote By Guido
Foundering Member of the Illinois Overkill Crew (IOC)

 

Alright, a few more questions. First, I've been looking over at sdpc2000, and I've noticed 2 400 crankshafts over there, one for $270, and one for $1400. Now I know you get what you pay for, but would I still see a decent gain w/ the cheaper one? Also, if I were to get fastburn heads, would there be anything else I'd need to do to accomodate them? And about the trans, would it be too much trouble/money to switch to a manual from an automatic? I probably know the answer to that, but I'm just wondering if the swap would be worth it, even if they were the same price. With a bigger crankshaft, and thus the engine running harder/better, would I need a better fuel pump? A lot of questions, I know, but like I said, I'm a newbie. Thanks!

 

STEELJESTER.. TO MAKE SOME AWESOME POWER STICK WITH YOUR STOCK BOTTOM END AND PUT AFR 190 HEADS AND A MINIRAM.. GO WITH 1-3/4" HEADERS SLP. 2800-3000 STALL. AND A 3.23 OR STOUTER REAR.. AND YOU WILL EASILY BE IN THE 12.2s OR EVEN 11s. IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME GO TO THE AFTERMARKET PRODUCT REVIEW AND LOOK FOR TRAXIONs ARTICLE ON THE MINIRAM. IT IS LONG BUT READ IT ALL.. YOU WILL LEARN SO MUCH.. I AM GOING WITH THAT SETUP AND I WILL KICK ALL MUSTANGS A**..
OH AND FORGED PISTONS SHOULDNT BE RUN IN THE WINTER. OR WHEN COLD.. THEY SHRINK AND THEN YOU BURN OIL.. ALWAYS TALK TO A PRO FIRST ..

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1990 IROC-Z L98 350 TPI
AFPR 49PSI, GUTTED AIR BOXES, K&N, RAM AIR, PORTED PLENUM, B&M SHIFTER, 3.23 LIMITED SLIP, DUAL CATS, STOCK SUPER TURBO EXHAUST, COOPER COBRA XST's

MUSTANGS...ONLY 4 LUGS....HAHA THAT IS HILARIOUS.

 

more than likely, the reason one is so much more than the other is material. forged steel or billet crankshafts are very expensive compared to iron, and other materials that arent as strong. if youre not going to be running consistent high rpms or adding boost and nitrous etc., the iron crank will be MORE than adequate.

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beau-t-ful yellow 85 iroc

 

Hey man, stick to what you've got. My buddy Mark there in New Britain knows the deal. Doing a swap - either LT1 or LS1 is a somewhat painful ordeal. Mark has been fortunate enough to afford to have a shop do the work. I did it all on my own. If this is your first mod as one of your posts claims then I would SERIOUSLY avoid swapping a totally different engine into the car for many reasons.

I like the KISS principle, keep it simple stupid. I did my swap because it would have been just as much work for me either way since I didn't have a 350 already.

I definitely throw in my vote to have your existing 350 built up. Stroke it, slap on some AFR heads and a good cam and not only will you be getting it doen cheaper than either of those swaps (they will balloon, believe me) but you will also be getting better parts and be making a LOT more power. Mod what you've got and you'll be a happy man. Start trying to make an engine work that wasn't intended to and you open the door to endless possibilities of failure and/or being broke over the deal. My LT1 swap has turned into a year-and-a-half running battle and has cost me SO MUCH MORE than my highest self-estimate way back when. And I did some serious digging before I did the swap.

Yeah, either one would be a cool swap - but is it worth it? To me, making more power for the same money and having better parts is a no brainer. Not to mention it will all dump in with no problems whereas the LT1 or LS1 would each require many different modifications to make them work.




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1991 RS LT1 - red/black, all-forged 355 with Stage 2 GTP heads and custom grind, bolt-ons, and maybe a D-1sc on the horizon.

2000 C5 Coupe - black/black 6-spd, optional polished rims, 13.05 @ 109.52 showroom stock.

http://bs.cz28.com

 

There are instructions for the Lt-1 and a T-56 swap on this page in teh Tesch articals. I plan on doing it. BUT...I will get the LT-1 and T-56 from a wrecked 4th gen, about 1500.
-Tom

 

Where is the article on the LT1 swap? I couldn't find it....Thanks

 

I would get you're current engine stroked to a 383,keep the tpi,add some headers,a aluminum driveshaft,and a stronger rearend,3:73 is a good street/strip ratio,if mileage is a concern,I would go with a 3:42 or 3:23.That is just my opinion,and don't forget flowmaster exhaust with 2 chamber 40series muffler


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86 iroc,canary yellow,fully loaded

 

It all comes down to money. the new ls1 kit is fairly complete. you will need the 4l60E and a converter. motor mounts might be a bitch to make if you don't have experince with that sort of thing. but if you have driven a new ss they get it pretty good without headers so you are looking at

5600+1500+300=7400

no if you do a rebild on yours to get the same horsepower on the throttle you will need some good heads. I would buy a gm zz4 short block if you don't want to go through the rebiulding a bottom end proccess, afr190 heads, roller valvetrain, superram or miniram manifold. the tpi was designed for torque not rpm. this setup should give you 450hp to 475hp at the flyweel if you opt for a large cam.

1700+1250+650(cam,lifters,revkit)+1200(not sure on the miniram price exactly)
=5800 with the saved money you could throw in a 6 speed.

the lt1 can be done but it will take some retro fitting also. basically you computer headers if you have them might not be able to be reused. Plus you bracketing could be different. basically If you don't want an intese project you just want something that gets it. I say stick with normal small block. if you want a big project and something different from everyone else do a converstion.