i want to make some ****-your-pants torque for general road racing, stoplight to stoplight fun and the abilty to eat alot of rice and horse....which one should i go with..i have a recipe for a 500 horsepower 383 but how much power could i make with a N/A 327?


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1991 RS LO3
mods: 14" chrome air cleaner, straight-piped after cat exhaust with one chrome dual tip on the left side.
future mods: headers, removing smog equipment, and as many cheap mods as i can find
aol s/n: budman8503

GONE MUSTANG HUNTING.......
BACK IN 10 SECONDS

 

If you want mad amounts of lowend torque the 383 is definitely the way to go. The 327 tends to be a higher revving horsepower without very much lowend torque.

 

You don't see the benefits of a 383 as much as a 327 on the street. The 383 will definetly shine brighter on the track. I currently have a 327 rated at a tad under 300 hp out of a 60's Corvette. I've also had a 400 hp 383 in the same car on the street. The 327 runs super strong and I can run 13's all day. On juice I'm way into the 12's. The 383 is no where near as "peppy" or fun IMO

 

the 12.8 was on an 80 small shot. I just recently got a 12.4 on a 125 shot. ohh, the 327 makes very nice torque too!!!

 

sig

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Alex (A.K.A chevyboy) '91 RS 327c.i., ported, polished, & gasket matched heads & intake. Competition cams camshaft, trans-go shift kit(stage 3)> manual valve body, cat-delete, MSD (ignition, coil, 2-step, timing retard/ advance), T.C. lockup switch, Flowmaster exhaust, Edelbrock Pro-Flo open element, Edelbrock shocks, struts and lowering springs. CRAGAR drag wheels w/BFG T/A tires. Lowered 2.25" in front and 1.5" in rear....Best E/T 12.84 @109 mph. Newest mod= Nitrous Express adjustable nitrous kit. "I survive for your survival" -me- LT2 U.S.M.C. Demolition

 

I don't see a 500 HP SBC having SYP torque. Only way that can happen is with a healthy shot like chevyboy is doing.

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R. 2.93 limited slip. Cat-back from '91 GTA, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LG4 w/LB9 block, ZZ3 cam and intake, TBD heads ported & polished, Hooker headers & y-pipe, 3" Catco cat).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. 0.030 over 396, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" headers, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Best 15.1 @ 5800' Bandimere. Daily driver while Camaro was being put together.

 

i got the recipe for the 500hp sbc makes 507hp@5,600rpm and 525lb ft @4,600. im just not sure what i can get out of a 327. dad recently brought a dakota quad cab with the new 4.7liter 318....performs better than my camaro....very streetable until 2000 you dont feel anything and it seems just like another truck but if you keep your foot in the same spot....as soon as it hits the 2000 tick mark you can feel it start to pull and it continues to pull well past 6000(has no redline...tach goes to 8) course it's got 3.92's........anyways thats what im talking about...is the 327 like my dads 318, or should i just go all out and go for the 383

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1991 RS LO3
mods: 14" chrome air cleaner, straight-piped after cat exhaust with one chrome dual tip on the left side.
future mods: headers, removing smog equipment, and as many cheap mods as i can find
aol s/n: budman8503

GONE MUSTANG HUNTING.......
BACK IN 10 SECONDS

 

4.7L is not 318 c.i. It's like 286-287 c.i. (not sure on the new Chrysler engine but that is what it calculates to be). The 318 is a 5.2L.

 

the 327 will pull to the moon. The 383 will give up before 5500 rpm. I prefer the 327 on the street....it's a diehard motor and sounds very unique

 

The 4.7 is also overhead cam (and 287 ci, not 318). Friend has a new Durango with it - very sweet.

Not sure why you're saying, chevyboy, that the 327 will pull forever and be better on the street. 1st, I repeat that a 500 hp 383 would not be very torquey. 2nd, a 500 hp 327 would absolutely not be streetable, or torquey for that matter, without getting to that power level via NO2. And, the only reason a 383 would die above 5500 is the induction/heads/cam/exhaust combo. 6500 rpm 383's are all over the place.

Certainly, budd, the 4.7 is not making anywhere close to the HP numbers you're quoting. It may feel fast, but take it to the strip and you'll find out the truth. My '91 Bonneville 3800 V6 feels fast once the tach gets above 2500, and is rated at a higher HP level - but I'm sure it would be eaten up by my Camaro in the 1/4.

You haven't mentioned what induction system you plan on using for either a 327 or 383. Certainly the TBI would not be up to the task for the kind of HP you're talking.

 

I am in it for the torque(390-415) yet I still want to engine to Rev(5500-6000). How much would a 327 cost to build what heads and cam are good and how much power would it produce with the heads, cam, headers, and 3" cat-back?? Can someone even just give a guess, most of the time i get ignored with these questions. I know they have variables but I don't know what to fill in for these. My dad was a mechanic for 30 years but he lost intrest in hot roding around the late 60s and he is not much help with the TPI systems.
thanks

 

oh yeah, no NO2 or super/turbo charges. Too much money for one part and i consider them cheating.

 

You have conflicting desires. A 327 will not put out that kind of torque and rev that high w/o power adders (i.e., you have to cheat). That's 383 torque territory.

You want to keep TPI? It won't rev that high without different manifold and runners. With either engine. Definately need better parts with a 383, although you could get a good 5000 RPM torque 327 with ported stock manifold and larger runners. Ported plenum and appropriate size TB assumed for each. Miniram would feed a 383 into your neck of the woods, but probably wouldn't have the low speed torque you'd like.

AFR heads w/383, World Sportsmans would do the 327 well. ZZ9 cam? Comp XE 278?

That 5000 RPM 327 TPI would outrun your dad's truck with a proper package (induction upgrades; good heads, cam, exhaust, gears). You really don't need 500 HP to get the job done.

You seem to keep coming back to the 327. Any particular reason?

 

both would be carbuerated........i dont like fuel injection(too many wires ) I CAN make the numbers listed above with the 383....ill send you all the specs if you like......yes i know that the truck only feels fast...and i know it will wheez at the track.....but what can a 327 make in terms of hp and torque.......give me some numbers.....i really like the sound of the 383 but im worried about space and hood clearance.....can i put the 327 in and not have to get another hood? im not going to do this tommorow but i plan on working on the engine while still driving the car listed below....i also plan to have the engine done and in the car running before i graduate. also, will the tranny be able to hold the 500hp of the 383? it's a 700 r4.

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1991 RS LO3
mods: 14" chrome air cleaner, straight-piped after cat exhaust with one chrome dual tip on the left side.
future mods: headers, removing smog equipment, and as many cheap mods as i can find
aol s/n: budman8503

GONE MUSTANG HUNTING.......
BACK IN 10 SECONDS

 

There is absolutely no difference between the 327 and 383 as far as getting them under the hood (as in requiring another hood). The 383 will have "issues" such as external balancing (unless you shell out the extra bucks to have it internally balanced), which produce flex plate, starter & harmonic damper differences. The hood is dictated by your choice of intake, carb & air cleaner, not 327 or 383.

I don't have any torque numbers in front of me, but figure the 327 will have slightly less proportional to displacement than the 383 (because of the shorter stroke). To make up HP it has to rev higher, which will kill low rpm power. I really doubt the 383 you're looking at will have the grunt you'd like below 2500 rpms, either. Peak HP & torque #'s mean nothing if you don't understand how they get there.

The TH700 should be built to handle the extra power. You're almost tripling the HP and more than doubling the torque with the quoted 383. A healthy 327 should have a beefed tranny as well.

Still don't quite understand why you keep bringing up the 327. ALL SBC's from 262 to 400 have the same external dimensions (except LS6 - doesn't count). 327's are harder to come by, have dipstick on driver's side, two-piece rear main seals, etc. 350's are easier to find, are available with passenger-side dipstick and one-piece rear main seal like your current engine. Even available with healthy HP #'s in crate form. Why aren't you considering a 350?

 

just too normal...how many 350's do you see? then compare that to how many 327's you see? anyways....isn't a 383 just a stroked 350? and if i do the 327 i will stroke out my 305 or another 305 block, so technically it will have the one peice seal and all the other "normal" goodies.....what i want is an engine that will beat a ***** with just NOS. most kids around here....thats the only thing they can afford(can't buy turbos like some of us) im not woried about other V8's at the school....the only ones wit v8's are trucks w/ monster tires, daddy's girls, and the occasoinal teen who has a love for V8 american performance(we few have a 73 charger, 96 WS6, and an older IROC-Z, and my RS) these are the cars im looking to beat and the ricers with tanning beds on the trunks.....please i know how an engine works and when the torque kicks in and all that mumbo jumbo, i want to know how each engine would perform against the types of cars listed above

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1991 RS LO3
mods: 14" chrome air cleaner, straight-piped after cat exhaust with one chrome dual tip on the left side.
future mods: headers, removing smog equipment, and as many cheap mods as i can find
aol s/n: budman8503

GONE MUSTANG HUNTING.......
BACK IN 10 SECONDS

 

Think of it this way... a 383 is a stroked 350; a 327 is a 350 de-stroked by the exact same amount. No mystery there.

I get the feeling you want a 327 for some reason. Yeah, they're good engines, they're small blocks. So what. They're small small blocks. You'll go faster with a bigger engine, period. In particular, if you want torque, the best way to get torque at low RPMs is to burn many gasoline molecules (it's so trivially obvious) and the easiest way to accomplish that is by having large cylinders.

The reason you don't see alot of 327s is real simple: the 350. When the 350 appeared, we all quit building 327s, because it was pointless. Any money we spent on a motor was "amplified" by a factor of 350 divided by 327 if you applied it to the newer bigger motor. To put it another way, every penny you spend on a 350, gets you more than the same penny spent on a 327. Personally I'm about getting all I can for my money, so I don't even fool around with the little 350 any more, since bigger small blocks than that have become available.

Nobody can tell you how much HP and torque a 327 will produce, because every engine is different. Take "327" out of that sentence and put in "350", then consider that the NASCAR guys get 800 HP from a 358 and the factoyr built everything from 375 HP 70 models to 185 HP 76 models, and you can begin to get an idea. I can definitely tell you that you're not getting 400 ft-lbs out of a N/A 327 at any RPM in this planet's atmosphere, because that many gasoline molecules won't fit in the cylinders and still burn properly. I can also tell you definitely that if you want to build an engine that produces meaningful power at 6000 RPMs, it won't have a whole lot of bottom end torque.

AFAIK there's no such thing as a one-piece 327 crank. They quit making the 327 in 1973, and started making on-piece-rear-main-seal motors in 1986. Small time gap there. Maybe someone will custom make you one, hopefully they'll talk sense into you instead of just taking your money.

At this point in your life, that is to say if to you a chrome air cleaner is a mod, you're not ready to build a 500 HP 327. I would suggest that you learn about what makes a car fast and get some experience building them. In the case of the car you have, you need an exhaust system from the heads to the street, and a camshaft. You'd need the same things for a 327 or a 383 for that matter. Start there and see where it takes you.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

Whew, thanks for the breather there, RB. I was getting carpool tunnel sindroam from responding to this...

Budd, I think you have one other misconception: A stroked 305 is NOT a 327! The 327 had a 4" bore and 3.25" stroke; the "typical" stroked 305 has a (.030" over) 3.766" bore and 3.75" stroke, resulting in a 334. In case that sounds "close enough" to you, it makes a big difference in power capability. A stroked 305 is not going to have the power capability of a 327, even though it's "bigger". Period, end of sentence.

Ditto to everything else RB said (except I believe the last year for the 327 was '69 - by then it was a 2bbl economy V8, slight step up from the [ugh] 307).

 

ok thanks guys, i think ill go with the 383, too many if's with the 327. i do know what im doing and if i run into problems i have people i trust to ask about without them taking my money........

------------------
1991 RS LO3
mods: 14" chrome air cleaner, straight-piped after cat exhaust with one chrome dual tip on the left side.
future mods: headers, removing smog equipment, and as many cheap mods as i can find
aol s/n: budman8503

GONE MUSTANG HUNTING.......
BACK IN 10 SECONDS

 

What kind of horsepower would a 327 make from a 68 camaro? I was wondering if i should go for a 350 from a c10 pickup with duel quad setup or the 327.
Thanks

 

The NASCAR 358 cid engine actually has a shorter stroke than the 350, and larger bores... it would be more comparable to the 327. The reason NASCAR uses the short stroke is because they want to have some pedal left at high RPMs. With the short stroke, more of the force from the combustion actually translates into spinning the crank, instead of pushing the pistons down... this also allows it to run at higher RPMs.


To make all of this relevant to you bud, it all depends on what kind of racing you are going to be doing.... if you just want to take a ***** in an 1/8 mile from light to light, you may want a 383 that peaks earlier with more power.

But on the other hand if you are going to be racing more than 1/4 mile... say on the highway (very dangerous) you would want the 327.

By the sounds of it, you just want something to show off around town... something that will lay a mean strip of rubber... I think the perfect compromise is a 355 cid 350 (.30 over). This way, the stroke is short enough that you can achieve high RPMs (roller block), and you still have enough displacement to make power.

PS: If you stroke a 305 you get a 328.8704641 cid boat anchor.

 

Does anyone know the exact sroke and bore on the NASCAR 358?

 

4.155" bore
3.31" stroke

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

yeah, a 11 inck wide by 80 ft. long strip of rubber would be nice.....i've only seen like 2 355's....how much mpg would i get with say a 350-400 horse 355? the 500 horse 383?

------------------
1991 RS LO3
mods: 14" chrome air cleaner, straight-piped after cat exhaust with one chrome dual tip on the left side.
future mods: headers, removing smog equipment, and as many cheap mods as i can find
aol s/n: budman8503

GONE MUSTANG HUNTING.......
BACK IN 10 SECONDS

 

also my 305 is a boat anchor right now....slower than a snail on a salt bed it's fun though


------------------
1991 RS LO3
mods: 14" chrome air cleaner, straight-piped after cat exhaust with one chrome dual tip on the left side.
future mods: headers, removing smog equipment, and as many cheap mods as i can find
aol s/n: budman8503

GONE MUSTANG HUNTING.......
BACK IN 10 SECONDS

 

I have a 355,
10.3:1
Dart II's
.550 .550 246* 246*@.050
700 VS Holley
TH-350
3.43 gears

I get around 15 MPG if I take it easy, if I run hard I get about 2, maybe 3

 

-> PERP, what kind of horsepower are you making with that combo? It is very similar to the combo I am building... so far I have:

350 4-bolt
-Bored .30 over (355)
-Magged / Hot tanked
-New Cam Bearings
-New Frost Plugs
-Cylinder walls deglazed

Dart SR heads
-Cut for 2.02 valves
-Beyond ported
-HD valve springs

I will be running a similar cam profile to yours as well... I'm just trying to figure out what to expect

 

a 383 will make torque out the whazoo. torque is what you feel on the street. it sucks gettin smoked by a guy cause your motor didn't have time to rev. you all have heard the old adage "there is no replacement for displacement" you could build a mild 383 with a streetable cam and hit it with N2O and make lots of power. a 327 will have to have huge heads, a jugundous cam, and spin about 6500 rpm to even come close to the 383. i get sick of hearing the number 350 too, so i would go with the 383.

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86 IROCZ
T-Tops
700R4
305 TPI
3.23 gears
shift kit, manual TC switch, manual fan switch, flowmaster exhaust with edelbrock TES headers& hollow cat, gutted MAF.

 

Good post, I really have nothing to add but I like the 327. My friend has it in his 69 camaro and the thing runs 13.0 all day. Bad thing is the gas milage, poweres so much higher and it doesn't help that he's got a 3 speed. I'm sure it's the same way with a 383 of similar build but still, no replacement for displacement. If you want to be really bad get a 454 under the hood, just get a really good tranny .
About the getting tired of hearing 350...use the word 5.7L and it sounds better, even a 355 sounds better. My friend with the 327 wants to rebuild with a 350 crank and bore it 6 over to a 360. With is iron eagle heads I think he'll be very happy with that build since it'll still be more like a 327 than a 383. His father has a 283 that is 3 over and those things are crazy. It's an old school block that could probably be bored to 4" and with the little crank...oh boy, they're putting that into a ****** Jeep. I'm perfectly happy with my 5.7L, much better power ratio than the 305. About stroking a 305...it might sound like a stupid thing to do but it would be kind of cool.

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, Jon (350 TBI! getting 23mpg highway)
91 Red RS w/grey int, sq stereo (Alpine v12, kicker solo, MB quart premium etc)AIM: JPrevost

• Holley 670 TB unit w/ 1/2" spacer/adapter
• Edelbrock RPM vortec intake
• 350ho 330hp vortec crate motor
• 8" harm. balancer
• Stewart stage 2 water pump w/160 thermo
• SLP tri-y headers to full 3"
• Rebuilt trans w/ SLP shift kit
• Centerline 16x8's all around
• 36/24 mm sway bars
• Full poly bushings, even motor mounts
• SLP LCA and panhard
• Alston SFCs
• Edelbrock 3 point STB
• Global west steering brace aka wonderbar
• Eibach pro kit springs
• Bilstien high perf. struts and shocks
• All this and I still have AC

My websiteAny questions?

 

Completely off the subject, but if the 327 is a higher revving engine, does it possibly make it a better candidate for turbocharging?