I have a 92 Camaro rs with a 3.1. I want to build a v6 to run with the v8's on the street around here.. they'll hate that! Any suggestions on whats easier, 3.1 or 4.3 and where i can find performance parts for either......

you'd better be off just throwing your money into a ditch then try to build eather, the only v-6 that can run with the 8's is GN turbo 6, but good luck finding one and that will be a EXpensive swap, go 350 and you'll be done, fast, and cheap!

Ditto

A 4.3 with a bigger cam, some head work, full exhaust, and about 8psi of boost could be pretty tough. If you're set on keeping a 6 then that would be the path I would take. IMO, it's a solid engine platform.

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1990 IROC 350
Mods: Too busy trying to make it run right to mod it.
Airfoil, Dynomax cat-back, MSD coil, 180 t-stat, Bald Eagle tires,
Hypertech fan switch, Accel 23# injectors, Holley module, ported plenum,
Ported Daytona Yellow stock base, Moroso valve covers, other stuff,
Streetdampr, Ruger P95DC, hot wife, new oil filter, !cats, !TBC, !AIR.
18.0 @ 85MPH since I'm one big-a$$ MF
"It's better to have and not need than to need and not have."

ANY SUGGESTIONS OM WHERE TO LOOK FOR THE PARTS TO BUILDUP A 4.3.........

GM Performance Parts has a complete line of Bowtie Parts for 4.3's. You're going to need
a deep wallet thou.
If ya want to spank some V8's with a V6,
use a '96 and up 4.3 Vortec Motor out of a truck, build it up and add Nitrous.

[This message has been edited by F-BIRD'88 (edited November 01, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by F-BIRD'88 (edited November 01, 2001).]

How do i get in touch with GM Performance Parts...........

https://www.spoperformanceparts.com

Visit your Local GM Dealer
http://www.tobefast.com/main.htm



[This message has been edited by F-BIRD'88 (edited November 01, 2001).]

I'll bet if you could get a 4.3 to bolt up, and did a few mods it wouldn't be too bad. Im pretty sure the truck 4.3 has 190hp and some pretty good torque. So if you want to spend a lot of money it could probably perform like a stock LB9 (215hp), but I guess the question I would have for you is why? For the same amount of money (probably much less), and much less trouble you could build a 350 and run 13's all day long.

peace

The reason i want to build a v6 is i drive 50 miles round trip to school everyday. 350... to much gas, plus i have a buddy with the same car and his is a lil faster and also i have a buddy with a 5.0 mustang...... i want to **** them off!!! Ive already had a 350 in a small pickup... that nobody could touch.... jusyt want to do it with a v6

i ahve a 4.3 camaro. most SBC parts will work, it's not easy but it can be done. you'll run into problems with headers and motor mount location.

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ICON Motorsports
1st & 3rd
MM Black Diamond 538 F&AM

Hey, for one, you can get plenty good gas mileage out of a 350. I have a buddy with a GTA and he gets 23 mpg, my dad has a vortec 4.3 in his Jimmy and he get 20mpg. I know it's a truck, but really, I'd think the gas mileage wouldn't turn out to be that much different. Trust me you can't get 30 mpg and run 13's. It won't happen. Save your pride and your wallet and build the 350! Just my two cents.

Im not sure, but I would guess your friend with the mustang will still kill you unless you put some kind of power adder on there. The only racing advantage you'll have on the stang is a lighter wallet.

i built S15 '89 4.3 V6 last year. the things i did was:

- edelbrock cam (the one available)
- TBI spacer
- stock swirl port heads (i didn't know that those kill intake flow) i ported and shaved by 1mm
- 2,5" cat back with one "turbo" muffler
- K&N
- cat delete
- underdrive pulley

what happened? stock truck i could pass 0-60 around 10 secs and after it was more likely 8 secs. at least got good kills from 9-5 turbo saab and v6 4th gen camaro

i bet horsepower was up from stock 160 to 200. at least my friend 2 liter 24 valve bmw wasn't threat anymore =)

problem was too much cam. ECM went crazy at idle and went too rich.

best news was gas mileage was 10% better! in fact my mom drove it once 300 miles and i recorded 28mpg. when i was driving it was lucky to get any better than 15mpg

if i'd do it again, i'd pick less cam, like those from comp cams and better heads (vortec?).

before you're running for 4.3, for me biggest down side is that 4.3 v6 sounds like excavator, bucket loader or caterpillar


-P

The GN 3.8 motor swap isn't as expensive as everyone thinks it is..I've already started gathering the parts for mine and it's turning out a hell of alot cheaper than what the 400 SB swap would have cost me. I'm hoping to have it all done by spring where I'd be lucky to have the motor for a 400 swap by the spring.I've already got the tranny for the swap and once I sell my 350 and 700r4 out of my camaro I'll have enough for the 3.8 motor. Some wiring and minor parts changes aside I'll be almost done.



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"Turn a 12 second dream into a 10 second reality"

unless its a 3.8 turbo why would you want to do that? 6's sound like crap.

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-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6

305, TBI, 700R4, P.A.W. 14x3 open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips, Hooker 1-5/8" 50 state legal headers, Dynomax 3" I pipe (PN 44063 and 43248)
Super GRK_Taz World
F-Body Dual Exaust
EFI & Intake Options

I beg to differ..I saw a straight six nova at a car show that was a hell of alot louder and meaner sounding than my IROC. And i've got a 350 with headers,full exhaust and no cat.



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"Turn a 12 second dream into a 10 second reality"

OK I should have said v6s. I have an I6 in my jeep and people compliment me all the time.

A 4.3 is just a 350 less two cylinders. Parts for it are everywhere and it's a really strong running engine as far as V6's are concerned. The Cyclone's are turbo 4.3s if memory serves me and they're plenty fast enough. The only problem with the 4.3 is that it's a 90 degree V6 which means it's going to vibrate like crazy. You also have to make the decision if you want the odd fire or even fire 4.3. The best GM V6 by far is the 3.8. That's why it's been around so long.

Just a thought, but I've heard that you can bolt up one of the 3.8L supercharged engines in a 4 spd auto. Also when i had my 3.1 I found a site that had a turbo made for a 3.1 in a fiero that would fit the 3.1 in firebirds/camaros. Just a thought. I'd go V8.

Remember that 4.3's don't like to spin fast. That is why I didn't even consider building a 4.3. Anyway, the V8 runs smoother and doesn't shake like hell when running at highway speeds. Much smoother opertaion than the 4.3 in general.

did anyone think to put in a 3.8 from the 4th gen and get a pontiac supercharger , cam, and bigger injectors

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87 IROC-Z 305tpi
still $h!ten on
rustangs

I know you said either 3.1 or 4.3 but neither is designed as a performance engine. Look into the newer 3.8's which run great, are reliable and make awesome power. These engines were built to perform and you can find them on many cars already built for boost like the Regal, GTP, Bonnevile..etc. These are plentiful and you may still be able to find one with the supercharger attached.

the 3.1L is a 60 degree V6 in the same family as the 2.8L. the 4.3 is a 90 degree -- it's been said to death but it is really a 350 minus 2 cylinders. have you looked at the 3.4? in 93-95 f-body's they used the 3.4L which is a 60 degree V6 - basically a bolt in replacement for your 3.1. I believe that the f-body version has 9.5:1 compression vs. the gm performance parts version which only has 9:1. In the f-body it is rated at something around 200 HP and 220 ft-lbs of torque. I just put one in my jeep cherokee complete w/ the '94 camaro SFI and DIS and it runs like a mother. the jeep has 4.11 gears, but it also has big *ss tires, and will outrun my stock '85 T/A. That's with no mods to the engine whatsoever. I think that the 3.4L w/ a decent cam, a small nitrous shot (50 HP maybe), some high gears, and some good tuning -- and you'll be able to run (fairly cheaply) with a basic 350 tpi. Or, you could get a little more into it and toss on a supercharger or turbo charger with 7-10 psi and outrun them

old 4.3 V6 shake like ****. when i was driving my "mint" condition truck only 82k miles in odo, my dad said while i was accelarating at half throttle, "do you have bad joint, since it's shaking like this?". i knew what's the point and explained that to him. before 1992 or something 4.3 didn't have balance shaft well, less parasitic losses smooth running engine except mid range and half load situations. maybe new ones runs smoother?

-P

in the F-body the 3.4 is rated at 160 HP and 200 ft. lbs. of torque

i'd say add a cam to one of these, but i dont believe any are available that are better than the stock one, that will not effect the PCM

if there are any other than the compucam 2030, someone please lemme know!!!!!!!!

I dunno, the 4.3 vortec in our 01 S10 Crew Car is a smooth runner, not as smooth as other engine but i have never had a problem with vibration at ANY throttle postion, also with the truck MPFI it whines out to 5500 RPM no problem under load. I think they are a good engine and the Cyclons and Typhoons used to our run Ferarries(that is not spell right)...well in acceleration at least. I would love to see one of those engines in an F-body. I also like the 3.8...add some boost and bingo you got a stock V8 killer. I would have to say it would be a tie. but for cheaper moding....the 3.8 is the way to go. I am buying a V6 maro to hold me over till summer when i can swap in my TPI motor from my IROC that got killed by a deer, the motor has 200 miles on it.

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1987 Black 305 TPI 5spd IROC, G92, 9-bolt 3.45, Lowered, Cat-back, Air Foil, Sub Frames, Huge sways........Wrecked by a deer.
Looking for a 1995 Honda CR125R in NJ or PA. I have one for sale...RRP Sleeve Job, Vertex Piston, New Sprokets and a x-ring chain, new botom end with crank...etc etc
look here
http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C18+R100004616

AIM: IROC 5spd
http://www.geocities.com/chevy5spdiroc/87Roc.htm

Good luck stuffing a 4.3 or 3.8L into a 3rd gen. First off, neither will bolt up to your trans but you have other fish to fry like.... Where are you going to get motor mounts? How about an exhaust system? For that matter do you even know if stock exhaust manifolds will fit? If not, I know FOR SURE that nobody makes a set of headers for this combo. How about something as simple as hooking up throttle cables and tranny kickdown cables? How about an air intake system?

The REAL COST of building something "out of the ordinary" is all the custom fabricating and detail work that needs to be done. It's NEVER simple and it ALWAYS cost twice what you think it will.

Forget this project. If you want some economy then build up a 305! That's pretty damned "unusual" right there- nobody builds up their 305. Or maybe nitrous the living pee out of your 3.1 until it blows and then replace it with the 3.4L 60-degree replacement engine mentioned above.



[This message has been edited by Damon (edited November 13, 2001).]

If you're worried about cost go for a 350, or a 383 for that matter, from a bare block it cost almost the same. If you're set on a V-6 and you have the money, the 3.8 really is the way to go. I'm not sure if it will bolt right in though. a 4.3 has the same tranny bolt pattern as a V-8. I've built up a 4.3 before, but for my boat. It's carburated, but Edelbrock makes a Performer intake for that engine, and a 600 CFM carb worked well. Comp Cams makes alot of cams for that engine, it uses the same parts as a V-8 (I think 350 pistons fit too), same water pump, etc. GM Performance parts makes a few heads for the 4.3 also. You can even get a common pin crank like a V-8 has, but it's made for racing, not the street. My 4.3 actually ran pretty smooth consideringit had a big cam, but it's still impractical for a street car. A turbo or a supercharger would work very well though.

Good luck with whatever you decided to do!

Are you sure that the hp rating of the 3.4 is only 160 hp ,my 91 cav z24 beater stock put out 167hp thats making the f-bodies a little weak in the hp department. And under the hood of that "musclecar" ) is 3.1mpi

confirmed, in the dec 94 issue of high performance pontiac, (back issues are great), 160 bhp @4600 & 220 lb/ft @3600.



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$150.00 2.8 Auto.
short block now
turbo eventually, 3.4 may be in the future
Giving the enemy the oppertunity to die for their country

I looked up a 3.1 Cavalier in the Chilton manual and it has your engine listed as 140 hp, same as any 3.1 in any GM for that five or six year span. Trust me there is no 167 hp Crapalier. Sorry.

there was the turbo 3.1 grand prix in 90, I do know there was a turbo sunbird/cavalier, but not sure if the motor was a 6 or 4.

Given the weight difference that crapalier will roll up the bird and smoke it for dinner. And trust me "look in your chilton 4 cyl. turbo CRAPALIER 170 HP. I'M SORRY

As far as the trans. goes the 2.8 bellhousing will bolt up to the 3800 Series II, or he could get the engine and trans from a yard fairly cheap, engine mounts wouldnt be THAT much of a pita and for exhaust, if the 3.4 4th gen headers fit with a little heating and bending then most likely the 3.8 ones would be similar since its the same chassis, i say go for the 95 up 3800 Series II, then turbo or twin turbo it later

True, given the weight difference, the Crapalier would roll up on and smoke the bird, but that's why I don't have a V6 bird. Really can't understand why GM even made it except to raise MPG ratings on the car as a whole. Besides, since I have to have another vehicle besides my Firebird.... I'd have a truck!

I highly doubt there was a factory turbo cavalier...but there is a guy on the net somewhere (i saw his webpage once when searching junkyard turbo pages) that swapped a 3.1turbo from an '89 Grand Prix into his early 90's Z24 cavvy
dont exactly remember, but i think he was running 11s on street tires
but he did have a bigger turbo, NOS and a completely built up engine and drivetrain.



[This message has been edited by sheet outta luck (edited December 04, 2001).]

I have seen a turbo sunbird around here, but always parked. Just didn't feel like crawling underneath to see (If I even could)what the exhaust manifolds looked like.

edit: checked out plugs for the sunbird, it is a turbo 4, didn,t find the turbo cav tho.

[This message has been edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird (edited December 04, 2001).]

only the sunbird was turbocharged.chevy hasn't made a turbocharged car in 30 some odd years now.that has always been pontiac's department.the 4.3 is a good engine but will cost way to much to build it to squash v/8's.the syclone and typhoon motors had a lot of upgrades that the normal 4.3's didn't.as someone said vibrations are inherent to the 90 degree v/6 and need a lot of mallory metal or special crank(syclone/typhoon)and dampener to survive.try to find a 3800 from a new f-body to swap in for the time being.it came with 9.3 to 1 cast pistons so don't think about juicing or turbocharging it until you change the pistons(even more money,rare find and expensive)there are a lot of turbo buicks you can raid for their engines but with the rear wheel drive heads your exhaust will hit the heater box melting it.also the only headers made for the turbo setup are tta specific and only one side is still available(could have them fabbed but will cost more money.if you want a 6 that smokes 8's save some cash drive your car as it is for now and buy a turbo regal it wont handle as well but will stomp most 8's with minimal dollars spent.

So Josh's Formula, you still sure you have a turbo Cavalier in stock trim?? If you really do then you must have about 1of 1 produced cuse I've never heard of them, Sunbirds yes, Cavaliers no. I COULD be wrong, but I doubt it.

I know this is an old post, but its amusing. Since this post in October of 2002 I think, one of the car magazines made a 500HP 4.3 with a vortec blower.

That makes a 4.3 a better choice than the 305.

BTW... does anyone have that article scanned?

why not add that same blower to a 305?

that was a moot statement

Did you consider a 4th gen V6. There is a guy running 12 with one over at ls1.com He might be able to help you out with mods as well. GM performance may be a good source for 4.3 buildup parts also.

go with the 3.4


http://www.mymilkexpired.com/video/tiagodyno.wmv

thats one bad *** idle for a V6, and some decent amount of power.

http://tiago.phxchevy.com/

Im building a 2.8 with all forged internals exept crank (Eagle cast steel), going to rev this thing to 8k and see what kinda number it throws out with 20psi of boost... maybe more.

here is another Turbo V6

http://www.turboz24.com/

jsut think how much more power 350 would make. Those two extra cylinders really make a difference.

This is an old post but since it began things have changed. Gas in now in the excess of $1.80 a gallon. Hot Rod Magazine is making 300 hp from a 4.3 and plans on more with a Vortec carb blower. Then add in the fact that the HR motor used old style bathtub design heads because there was no intake manifolds for the Vortec V6 heads. Edelbrock now makes V6 Vortec manifolds specifically for this application. Now things get interesting. Can you say 350 rear wheel horsepower...28 + mpg...and 250 lbs off of your front end for better weight distribution. Something to think about.

v6???? i dont think you can do much to a v6, and even if you could i dont think you could run with the big boys!!, i dont think you know how powerful a 305 is??? and what if you run into a 350 like mine!!! i think you can beat **** burners with a v6, but thats about it, plus most poeple with big blocks have some kind of modification, just take a look around, i just got my 92 firebird and it already came with a transplant 350, and it use to be a 305!!!! not even a 305 is enough for some poeple, my best advice to you is to drop a 350, trust me you will fall in love with it, and if not than get a 305, atleast it's an engine that can handle major mod's! good luck

they do? finally now i can ditch teh problematic cpi when i get another 4.3 for my truck.

As for the fuel economy.... I wish. My 4.3 onyl gets around 18/22 in my s-10. not the best IMHO, although im sure the 'brick wall at 70mph' aerodynamics doesnt help the highway milage too much. Adding a carb with a blower will only probably make it worse. With efi that might be a different story, though. Look at the ls1/ls6's. Setting up a 4.3 with a s/c and modified manifold set up for mpfi and a DIY-efi system would be mighty sweet.