I know it sounds stupid but its something I want to do. ok so 1 question I have is that will a 327 motor from just for a example c2 corvette be legal with the tpi system? Just so you know the tpi would be far from a stock system and it might be something like superram even. Would this be a fairly easy swap as i already have tpi? How much hp/tq be needed to hang with say lt1's and ls1's? I'm thinking of doing staying around 400hp since that should be pretty easy since its just a bit more then a stock hi-peformance engine. And can i acheive 400hp while still being drivable and it being reliable and still having decent mpg? Thanks

 

Did you try a search on this subject? There was a guy who posted the exact same question just a couple weeks ago...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...hlight=327+tpi

 

yes actually i guess im just horrible with searching lol. thanks.

 

Search just the forum for 327 tpi and you'll get a ton of results.

But, I will tell you basically, build a 350.

 

a 327 is typically a high RPM 6,500 - 7,000 engine..TPI is really not the setup for this RPM range.. I built a carbed 305 with a 327 / 350hp cam many years ago I easily hit 7,000

 

I'm really aint trying to have the fastest car in highschool im trying to be diffrent and all.

 

ya i know that its more of a high reving engine but they supposely have no real good low end torque which i think a fully maxed out tpi would help out the torque issue and it i suppose it will give me good driveablity and good mpg.

 

ok i really will sound like a idiot now since i hyped up wanting to go with a 327tpi setup but anway would the diffrence in power be noticable between a 327tpi and a 383tpi, what is more reliable, what would be more drivable, and what would the cost diffrence be.

 

Yes, the difference to power would be noticeable. The 383 would be more drivable and the cost difference would be basically nothing.

 

I am going to quote five7kid again...

 

thing is will i a 383tpi only be good for drag racing? im looking for a motor that is good all the way around.

 

also what type of sound can i get from a 383tpi. someone mentioned that with a 327 that it sounds like a ferrari which i kinda would like to have with a race car sound up front but a muscle car sound from the exhuast. I dont want a week sound to the engine i either want something exotic sounding or mean old school muscle car sounding.

 

The 327 won't sound exotic, except if you are revving it way high... it's still a SBC. It has a 4.0 inch bore. It isn't a 5 liter V12....

The 383 will have more torque. It makes it a great street motor. It doesn't weigh more then the 327, it's the same block and everything.

 

That farm truck with a 327 I drove when I was a kid had plenty of grunt with a load of corn or wheat on it.

That is true. Still doesn't have any relevance to whether or not TPI would work on a 327.

Being a 327 is irrelevant with regard to RPM capability.

To answer the original question: It would not be legal. You can't put in an engine that is older than the chassis, even if you use the chassis-legal induction.

 

ok but will it just fall flat on its face right away or will it be keeping up with ls1's all the way thru the gears if it has similar power?

 

The power falling off is dependent on the heads and the induction system, not the displacement.

 

ok well that totaly bites that a 327 wont work because honestly i really would like to build a 327,tpi,twin turbo moter when the camaro is retired from daily driving.

 

ok is it still smart to run tpi? i would like to do a tpi setup mostly because it will give good mpg and it makes good torque and seen good numbers on some motors up top.

 

With the 383? No, I'd go with a HSR or something better. TPI falls off on a 350 at 4,500 RPM, it will be worse with a 383.

BTW, have you read the sticky at the top of the forum about dispelling the myths of a 327? You really really should if you haven't...

 

im not talking about a stock tpi, no way in hell lol i mean one that everything is ported to the max but not a new system like hsr. i would like to do hsr but isnt it illegal emissions wise? Superram seems ok but im not sure about the looks which i honesly like the look of tpi or hsr much more.

 

The HSR doesn't have EGR, that is correct.

There are lots of options out there... read the Aftermarket Induction forum and see what you want to run.

 

The only "legal" aftermarket TPI systems are: the Edelbrock base & runners; and the Accel Super Ram.

The HSR doesn't have EGR as mentioned, and no C.A.R.B. #.

The TPIS Mini Ram doesn't have a C.A.R.B. #, but the guys on the TPI forum say the EGR kit that is available for it makes it legal (technically, it doesn't, but if they can get by with it, more power to them).

And, a 383 wouldn't technically be legal, either.

BTW, I never said TPI "won't work" on a 327. With proper heads, cam, and exhaust (matched to whatever you do to the TPI itself), it'll run just fine. Much better than a 305, and probably better than a stock L98 if you pick the parts properly and tune accordingly. Just don't expect to keep up with similarly modified L98's, and forget keeping up with LS1's.

 

I'm very aware of the fact the displacement of the 4.0 bore 327 block.. has nothing to do with RPM.. but the 3.25 stroke has everything to do with RPM
and of course TPI can work with any small block... fact is a 327 is going to rev way past the TPI dead zone from 4,500 and up... making the HSR Non emission the best choice

 

Simply not true.

RPM capability is a function of the ability of your valve train to keep up with the cam, and the strength of your components like rods and rod bolts. Stroke is such a small player that it isn't worth mentioning. Even rod length is a bigger player than stroke.

If stroke is the primary factor, explain to me why LT1's have more low-end torque than LS1's, and LS1's out-RPM LT1's, when the LT1 has the larger bore and shorter stroke compared to the LS1.

 

BTW, this sticky has been available for over 5 years:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...t-fiction.html

 

ok so say if i did do a 383 with mini ram would i still pass emissions and such or is it a maybe? but if i wanted to be competly legal i would have to just have a 350 correct? and how do they tell if you have a non legal motor even if it still passes the sniffer and everything looks pretty stock? do they look at the casting number? with a 350 or 383 with or without and updated tpi could i keep up with ls1's with slightly higher numbers?

 

stroke cam & intake is your answer Lt1 Vs LS1
And PS I did not say that the stroke was the primary reason for the RPM
it's mainly the cam.. and compliments the 327 stroke

 

i can tell you that tpi on a 327 is STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my car got decent gas mileage and drive ability.......it ran....it worked....but fights itself all day long


i have a very built 327 and tpi is a joke.......car starts pulling hard from 1500 and then just falls right off at 4800.....i cant even hit 6000 under load......time to go carb again.



i am selling ALL my tpi stuff......the computer is even tuned for a 333ci with 24# injectors

 

Stroke??? the LS1 has a longer stroke than an LT1, not very much, but it is longer.

Intake? it does play in a little, but it's definitely not the deciding factor, esp with EFI.

The absolute biggest factor in RPM, (assuming you have a durable bottom end) would be HEADS and CAM. end of story.

hell, I can make a High RPM 305 if you give me the right heads for it. theres nothing wrong with a 327, but why bother, you can get 350's all day cheaper. the only reason I would build one is if it was a matching numbers issue. I wouldn't go looking for one, they aren't magic or something.

 

I wouldn't call it stupid, building a vehicle is about component matching, want High rpm power, get a heads cam intake setup to support it. want a torque monster, build a big motor with TPI.

 

for the money wasted band-aiding the tpi you couldbe building a far better motor like a ltx/lsx

im sry, pulling a chip out of the computer to tune is retarded

the heads/cam and motor ive got are nasty with a victor jr and 650DP holley on it.......i tried using a mild tpi and my god its a good 50% reduction in power. A HSR still cannot match a carb intake.......meh i hate carbs but im going that route for power right now.

i wish someone would buy my 327 so i can start my lq4 swap

 

I didn't say it was perfect, but your making it seem like all TPI units should be thrown away, when I don't think they should, they do what they are designed to do fairly well. as far as chips go, thats what EBL, or the EFI connection conversions are for.

To me, it sounds like your HSR wasn't tuned very well, because you should be fairly close to the same power with it as your carb, not exact, but def not a hugely noticeable difference.

 

I did not read the whole post, but i read the first few replies.

Basically "iroc stangs" wants a 327 because "three twenty seven" sounds way cooler and more exotic than "three fifty", there is no other reason and he keeps trying to convince himself that there just HAS GOT TO BE a reason.

But you know what sounds better than "three twenty seven"? "FOUR TWENTY SEVEN", and they perform a hell of alot better too.

Go get yourself an aftermarket block with 4.125" bore, a 4" Stroke Crank and some 6" rods and matching pistons and you will have a forged 427 smallblock for about the same price you would pay for a forged 327.

 

Thats for the el cheapo 427 and the top of the line 327, you forget too, that would also require a entirely new drivetrain, a t5/700r4+ 7.5 ten bolt would die in a heartbeat behind a 427.

 

No, a top of the line 427 would actually probably be cheaper than a top of the line 327.

The rods, pistons, bearings all cost the same 327 vs 427 (assuming you use all forged aftermarket parts).

I would bet that the 4340 crank for a 327 will cost more than a 427 because the aftermarket for a 327 crank is basically non-existant, Honestly the 327 is useless compared to a 350/383. Where as a 427 Scat crank is only $560 and a Callies is less than $700.

As to the engine block itself, an aftermarket block with a 4.125" bore costs exactly the same as an aftermarket block with a 4.0" bore.


Now as far as the drivetrain, you are right about that, unless you choked the 427 with a shitty cam to limit the horsepower/tq to within reasonable limits.

 

a all forged 427 sbc with aftermarket block starts in the $3200 ball park, thats the short block.
AND THE PARTS will last longer with out spinning them to 7500RPM

with the right heads and cam, the 427 sbc Can make over 600HP under 6200 RPM, with 590 FPT, No 327 will ever do that with out Help, EVER!

always wanted a 427, even now im thinking about the 440 or 454 sbc.
as the nexed eng, I love cubes. and gobbs and Gobbs Of TQ!

with my New block a 4.250 bore and a 4" stroke with 12.1 pistons
and a good set of heads.. now thats a small block set on Kill!

 

I wasn't really thinking crank rods pistons, I was thinking heads intake and exhaust, you'll need one bad set of heads to let that 427 run like it's meant to, and we all know that off the shelf 1.75" primary headers would be like trying to breath through a coffee straw. and you also don't have to buy an aftermarket block for a 327/350/383 which can save you $$$.


I'm not against building a 427 by any means, my issue is that a 427 is more power than half of the people in the US can handle, and it's expensive to do right.

Edit:

I'm not saying build a 327 either, I would probably build a 350/383 and put 327 emblems on it if I was staying gen 1.

 

when you add up heads cam and intake and all the other small parts yes it's $10.000. (I know i just spent it) over $12.000 and still going.

it's no fun,when you had a redo price in your head of say 5 to 6 grand.
(with a new 383) but ya know what..when looking at the 327. back in the day, it was something, (not so much any more)

but say you wanted to do a 327 with a old school cross ram. or a hillborn Injtion unit...now that would look Good, but your right use a 350 and say it's a 327..lol

my car is marked 5.7
thats all they need to know.

 

First off, I know I'm bringing this thread back from the underworld

Secondly, seeing that it's almost 3 years old, I'm hoping the OP won't mind if I hijack it

I am actually interested in this thread for a reason that I haven't seen yet... I have a '68 camaro with the factory 327 (double humps) and a Turbo 350. I hate (F&$#ing HATE, with a purple bloody passion) carburetors, almost as much as I hate automatics. Thing is, I also have an '89 IROC 5-speed sitting in the backyard. It got T-boned with 80k on the odo. I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this....

Should I pull the entire drivetrain out of the 'ROC and transplant it as-is (305, TPI, 5-speed, driveshaft, rear-end, etc), OR bolt up everything to the original motor? I don't really need 8,000 horsepower, just something that I can get in and drive when I want to. I rebuilt the 327 a few years ago, so I know it's in good shape, and the IROC only has 80k on it and runs fine, so I know it's good.

I'm of the opinion that even if the TPI does become a restriction for the 327, It's still gotta run better than a completely stock 305.

One more thing: No "build a 350" posts. I've built them. I've built everything from 283's to 289's to 302's (ford AND chevy) to 383's to 502's. I want to use what I have.

Opinions?

 

How many miles are on the 327? If it's a lot, then sell and get a 350. I'm sure some dumb old fart would love to have your 327 because of nothing other than ignorance. There is nothing a 327 can do better than a 350 can do. The fact the no 327's came with roller cams just makes them even worse. I think I'd rather have a roller cam 305 than a flat tappet cam 327. And intakes (including TPI) are not limited by RPM, they are limited by airflow (power).

 

the 327 has maybe 10k since I rebuilt it. It doesn't have a roller cam, but I did put a decent cam in it along with roller rockers. The other thing to consider is the heads. Double humps aren't much by today's standards, but they are better than most every stock 305/350 head out there. After thinking about it overnight, about the only advantage I can find for the 305 is the lack of tuning needed.

 

Those 327 heads probably aren't better then the 89 TPI heads, really. The TPI heads are pretty good compared to older heads. Also, the angle of the center bolts changed, so you won't be able to just bolt the TPI on.

 

This is true, I ran into that once before, lol I ended up slotting the manifold holes and using the ball pivot from a rocker arm with a longer bolt.

Ahhh, decisions decisions...

Thanks for the input. A friend of mine keeps trying to convince me to do an LSx swap... great plan, just no $$$.

 

Id be very surprised if a 327 with camel humps was faster than an LB9. Those 60s hp numbers were inflated by ridiculous testing standards. Now we have pretty strict standards and you'd be surprised how fast our slow 80s rattle traps were compared to the fastest factory 60's muscle cars. Most couldnt get into the 13's. The only reason everyone thinks those cars were so fast is because of nostalgia and the fact that today the ones that are still running around are NOWHERE near stock.