85gulstrandTA

3017 and 3038 are the lobe profiles. I've had cams with these.
This does not give the durationor lift, they use those profiles on many of the stock cams as well. Duration can very.

I ask if you had one for sale
I ask what you thought of the 249s

I i have to guess I would say you're at 236 dur @ .050

Atilla the Fun

This morning I'm in a better mood, but you're just maddening. These lobes are NOT used on any "stock" cams, but are used on many "shelf" cams. yes, the durations are 236/242, and the lift with 1.5:1 rockers is 543/540. But if you're exactly copying this build, then you really don't need to know that. You guys get way too hung up on the cam specs, when they're really just tools to help get the desired results. Cam specs are NOT an end in themselves.

85gulstrandTA

Yes, stock means in inventory, on the shelf at comp, a stock cam in the catalog in stock for shipping out when you order.....did not mean to confuse you about stock cams.

I was on the money with the cam spe's any way.
I will not copy anything as I have my own 17 or 18 trophies for LACR when they were open.

As for as "you guys" go, You have no idea why i was looking at the information....do you....I not hung up on anything to do with cam spe'c. I am hung up on 400 sbc's, after all I have 4 of them.

So hope your moodyness gos away and thanks

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The only way I've seen "stock" used means OEM factory.

85gulstrandTA

You've never called and asked it they have it in stock?...ever

No 400 came with a roller cam stock from the factory..that should have been a clue.

Guest

Atilla, I have a few serious questions, because they say the only dumb question is the one you don't ask.
First, isn't it possible to have a best build for a 305, seeing as everyone here has one.
Second, if giving up off-idle torque is the cardinal sin, then why do you so often suggest cams as large as you do?
Third, When a good 350 with compromise gearing can spin a pair of street radials, in a popular 245 size, then why worry about off-idle torque in 383+ cube builds?
Fourth, on that 525-horse 400, what would be the result from using MILD-ported EQ 200 heads, as they're about 1/3 the cost of those Darts?
Fifth, please add some comments about adding supercharging to the best builds which are clean-running.
Sixth, please comment on adding supercharging to 8.6:1 305s.
Thank you.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

"In stock" and "stock cam" are completely different uses.

Atilla the Fun

(1) Yes, virtually everyone has one, but building it is false economy. Keep driving the 305 while building the 350+, in your kitchen if necessary. Do the short block, get 2 strong friends to help you set it on the floor, finish the build, then get a hand truck (dolly) with an 8" toe and pneumatic tires to get it out of the kitchen. It is worth the hassle. Getting the block only adds about $100 to the final tally. Still well worth it.
I no longer have access to an engine dyno. If I did, the HP numbers wouldn't be that impressive, and the torque numbers, well, if you're gonna build an SBC, get a 350.
Putting a HighEnergy 252H10 in an LG4 is a no-brainer. Milled stage 2 Vortecs and my old standby Lunati cam in an L69 can get you tp 400 horses, but we don't drive peak power. Under 3000 rpm it would be maddening. Much wiser to do a 350 or a MasterPower T70 turbo.
(2) If you'll go into the LSx swap sub-forum, you'll find a thread I did about camming a 6.0L. In it, you'll see how a mild Crane cam seriously out-torqued the smaller stock cam at ALL rpm, even down at 1500. 1500 is the stall rpm of stock torque converters, and is too low of rpm for nitrous or turbocharging.
(3) Because we can get Drag Radials from Mickey Thompson. Their 275/60R15 is an easy fit, and is sticky enough to break into the 9s in the standing quarter mile. None of my best builds can do that, even with a progressive 200-shot of nitrous.
(4) You've got a good idea there, it'd only suffer below 2000 rpm, and a 2000-stall converter is very driveable, even with 3.08:1 axle gearing.
(5) Drop the static compression a bit, get some professional help selecting the best pair of turbos, and have fun. With boost, ported and polished exhaust ports and de-burred combustion chambers become critical. You may need colder plugs, upgraded cooling, and an adequate fuel system, but no surprises there. I'd suggest sizing the turbines for full boost at 3000 rpm, NOT 2500. Then you should have peak power around 5500, and should be shifting at 6000.
(6) A single large turbo will do. The MasterPower T70 is a popular choice, because most guys who try one with an LG4 either give good reports, or don't post on any forums. I have a few favorite turbos, but they're not cheap. A T76 is too big, a T66 would be large. A T57 shouldn't be too small. Stay in that range. Boosting one of these is not entry-level like a 350 swap, but should run with most 383s. And is more fun than most 383s, also.

Atilla the Fun

I'm not opposed to trying to help anyone who's willing to learn from my experience.
You get advanced Cancer, and start getting Chemo, then tell me about your moods.
I'm your friend if you'll be more tolerant of my condition, and more conversational in your typing.
And no, I've never called to ask if a cam is in stock. I either check Summit, or I custom-order under my real name.

Slowridr

iTrader: (1)

Atilla, any preference on internal parts like Rods, lifters, rings, valves, etc, etc on this particular build. Is there a choice here that, in theory, may eek out even more performance wise or is it just a waste of money to get expensive internals vs. well built dependable less expensive ones?

Atilla the Fun

If you can keep it out of ANY detonation, then hypereutectic pistons and stock rods will live forever. If you get serious detonation, then you'll damage even 2618-material forged pistons. 2618 forgings are the strongest, they typically call for cold clearance of at least 0.004" piston-to-bore, while 4032 forgings are around 0.0015", like hypereutectics.
You could find some small benefit from the gapless top rings, but they're relatively expensive. still, if you want those last 10 horses...
Not much point in coatings, other than on the piston skirts and inside the headers, just polish the chambers and the piston tops.
If you're gonna add a centrifugal supercharger, then drop the static compression to 9.5:1, and do get thermal coatings for the exhaust valves and exhaust ports.
Please don't consider nitrous or turbocharging or any non-centrifugal blower for this combo.
You should be using 1-piece swirl-polished stainless valves, with undercut stems and 30-degree back cuts, but unless you're adding boost, the cheap ones will suffice.
Any old lifters will do in this rpm band.
If you are gonna add the centrifugal, then go for 6" rods and 2618 pistons. SpeedPro makes some nice ones with a 21cc dish. And also if you're gonna add boost, then skip these heads in favor of AFR 180s. Preferably the competition versions. But everything else still applies.

Atilla the Fun

Also, beehive springs should be considered mandatory.

63bravo!!

hi! im truly sorry to hear about your health atilla that realy blows, anyhow im realy interested in your experiance with big blocks id like to hear some combos from you maby a 454 a 496 and a 632? kindof same way you did the sb in regards to info (dynos emmisions ect) id like to know what to expect is it worth doing a stock rebuild 454 short block or would it be only a little more to go 496? my plan is for my 92 open road racing with t56 then when i build a bigger beter engine once i have the money using the old one in my 89 for dirt track... i might keep a sbc around to swap when emmisions comes up unless i can figure out how to trick the computer to pass a bbc lol the 92 will be mostly saturday cruise night driven exept when open road races come up btw and the 89 will be dirt only

Atilla the Fun

For open road racing, a supercharged 350 would be best. For saturday night cruise-in events, the rat has some merit.
The rat really belongs on the salt for Bonneville Speed Week.
a 496 with Patriot heads is the best bang-for-buck in the BBC arena,
but no matter what computer trickery you find, it'll never be emissions legal. If you want a legal big block that can handle, go get a pre-'73 Camaro, or a pre-'75 'vette.
You might be able to get away with a rat in your '92, in some counties, for a few years, but under current federal law, it's blatantly illegal. It's just not enforced nation-wide to the extent that it is in Los Angeles.
I don't have a best build for a 632, but I do have one for a 496 with the Patriot heads.
If you're at sea level, choose pistons for 10:1. If you're in Denver, go 11:1. I'll get cam specs and dyno results up tomorrow or the next day.

63bravo!!

So if I go sc 350 do you have anny combos or rough recomendations? Also what kind of sc would you recomend old school roots would be bad *** but definitely would be cool on the street for looks but I want power and durability first looks are a concern but not when it would sacrifice anny performance I want efi aswell btw

Atilla the Fun

I'd do it with flat top forged pistons, AFR 195 heads with 75 cc chambers,
COMP's Nitrous Xtreme 276 HR 113 cam, AFR's Hydra Rev kit, COMP Pro Magnum 1.52:1 rockers, 6", bushed, 4340 rods with ARP bolts, Hooker Super comp 1.75" long tube headers, ceramic coated, dual 3" exhaust,
I'd top it with a TPiS Mini-Ram 2, then boost with ATI ProCharger.
If you can afford all that, then also use a new Dart SHP block.
If you do all of that, then 800 crankshaft horsepower on premium unleaded pump gas is very realistic. Add some octane booster, pulley it up, 900 is there for the race.
This'll make peak HP around 6500 rpm. First gear WILL be good for 7000.
For 900 HP, the SHP block is perfect, you'll need an American (not Chinese) 4340 crank.
Don't cheap out on the pistons, and gap the plasma-moly rings generously.
Coatings: best to have the bearings, piston skirts, wrist pins, combustion chambers, piston crowns, exhaust valves and exhaust ports all coated. Synthetic oil is an absolute must. Rod bearing clearances should be 0.0020-0.0025", and mains 0.0025"-0.0030" Use the best oil pump Moroso makes, then get a matching pan and other baffling from Moroso also.
And even considering the rev kit, you'll still want COMP 26918-16 springs.

63bravo!!

awsome thank you hmmm maby my big block dreams will be delayed untill i get my 4 projects done lol thats pretty close to where i was looking for my power to be aswell callies crank oliver rods should take the abuse quite well too maby i can build a bb for my 89 what compression and psi would you recomend also intercooler yes no?

63bravo!!

still would like to see bb builds you have done

63bravo!!

oooohhh dart just redid their site way cool

63bravo!!

it still eams that it would be easier to do with a bb maby wait a couple of years till i only have to pass safety im in tx btw usualy below sea level.... dammit sorry about so manny posts i get exited lol feel free to deleat

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Sorry to tell you....Being in Texas or a car being over the 25yr old mark won't help you any. A BBC will still cause your car to fail at Inspection time. It is not JUST a Safety Inspection.

63bravo!!

oops ment visual lol

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

And it will still fail, regardless of the name of it. Unless you have "friend" at a station.

63bravo!!

i have a state inspectors license so yeah im not going to fail my own car. i will make shure its all legal of course but thats why im not to woried about it passing visual

63bravo!!

after 24 years old it doesnt have to pass the sniffer which would be my only concern

Atilla the Fun

With flat tops, 75cc heads, and 0.040" piston-to-head, you should be around 9.3:1. good enough for this combo. Yes, use whatever intercooler matches ATI's guidelines, that also fits your car and budget.

Atilla the Fun

getting either one past the sniffer is mostly a matter of cam specs and good cats.

63bravo!!

not to mention that nowhere in harris county emmisions legislature does it say you cant put a bbc in a car at all the only problem is the sniffer as long as you have all of the emisions stuff which is where the cam and cats come in which i dont know much about lol iv tried and tried i just cant seem to get my head around choosing a cam

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

I don't see why just a county legislature would bother to mention that anyways. No real need to since the Federal guidelines cover that.

But for those who want to read the State Emissions guidelines....

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/vi/insp...ejectsubmit=Go

Atilla the Fun

That's why you ask someone like me. My first year at my career, I ate 3 cam swaps for having recommended the wrong cam the first time. Since then, I've never once had a single complaint about any cam I've suggested. Maybe someone can spec you a slightly better cam. But not dramatically better.
I don't normally chase those last 5 peak horses. I go for average power, under the curve.
If you want to have the final choice, then give me every detail of your combo, and I'll spec 3 cams, with my own descriptions. Then the final choice is still yours.

63bravo!!

Car will have less weight than stock a built t56 tranny and probably 3.27 gears( many got that wrong but the one close to that) of for tires will be 26 looking to go around 200 at the end of 6th gear around 550 or 6000 rpm mostly Saturday night cruise but open road racing twice a year atleast I'm strongly considering 632 BBC if you need more info I will be happy to provide and I much appreciate the help

Atilla the Fun

You're extremely mixed up. Unless you're referring to a custom T56 from Rockland Standard Gear, the only T56 for you to consider is the '94.5-'97 z28 version with the Viper ratios ( already in it ) and the Viper output shaft ( a nessary but costly upgrade )
Sixth is 0.50:1, so you won't be going much past 90 mph in sixth, even if you do a twin turbo 632, no matter what axle and tires you get.
For one thing, you wouldn't be able to keep ANY driveshaft in the car.
Doing 200 in fifth is realistic.
If you do a 3.08:1 axle ratio, and 26.00" rear tire diameter ( measured off the car ) ( The Viper is 3.07:1 and 26.2" ) then you get 200 mph at 5885 rpm.

63bravo!!

ok so thats the lt1 t56 right just want to be clear and that sounds about perfect rpm i will most likely have my tranny built by lmp here in houston saying i go with what you just said (i probably will) what kind of head/cam would you recomend?

Atilla the Fun

Sorry I'm still feeling too sick to dig out the info I promised to post by now, I was expecting to feel better sooner, but I will dig through my files and get you the numbers.

63bravo!!

dont worry bout it man i know your goin through allot

Atilla the Fun

It does bother me when I can't keep my word. Sometimes I get way behind, but I feel it's better late than never.

63bravo!!

Most definately its a good premis to go by

Atilla the Fun

I hate to just tease ya with what I remember, but it's a 496, with Patriot heads, COMP 242/248 cam, HR lifters, Weiand Stealth intake, big carb, headers, 598 HP at like 6100 rpm?

Primetime91

iTrader: (15)

I have the specs & part #'s for the motor, P.M. me if you'd like them

586 HP @ 5700 RPM
590 HP @ 6000 RPM
589 HP @ 6300 RPM

Speaking of this motor Atilla...

Would you feel up to porting these patriot heads for me? I'm talking beyond your usual "stage 1" job, but I don't know what your situation is like right now

Atilla the Fun

Yeah, I had JamieSweet copy down the build info for Primetime91, when he picked up the ported LS1 heads from Jamie last month, so he can help you out. Jamie's coming over tomorrow, so I'll ask him then.
I've never had the Patriots on the bench, but all they really need is exhaust ports and chambers polished. The flow at mid-lift isn't anywhere near AFR 315 heads, but that can't be fixed. If you need the results of the AFR 315s, you hafta buy the AFR 315s.
I can do stage 2 on the Dart 305cc iron BBC heads, but those are iron, and more money than the Patriots. American versus Chinese. But if our fellow countrymen won't give us what we need....
Oops, sorry I started soapboxing again.

Primetime91

iTrader: (15)

All I can say... Man would I love AFR's, but at $3000+ for a pair, well, that's almost what I built my complete SBC for. Sure wish I could, but I don't think I can justify that... My lady would KILL me. In the future maybe, but certainly not now.

I'm surprised to hear you say that all the patriots need is polishing though. You don't think they would be able to benefit from more than that? I'm curious why you say that

Atilla the Fun

Look at the flow bench results for them. The mid lift intake flow is soft, but they recover nicely and start to move serious air.
ALL heads need some clean-up, it's true, but most modern heads don't need the extensive port re-shaping of older heads.
You want to see some big block heads that do need extensive grinding, look at stock Pontiac 400 - 455 heads. Those can take 2 full weeks each to fix.

Atilla the Fun

even the AFR 315s are cheap, look at the MAST heads for LSx, they're $3500. But they move more air than the AFR 315s. There are $4500 / pr bare high-port heads for the LSx that move 400 cfm. Better do a 454+ in a World Warhawk block for those.

Atilla the Fun

Notice: I just edited post 9. Not mine, but worth copying for some applications.

87tpiz28

iTrader: (2)

What would be the losses/gains of using this cam: 270 adv duration
valve lift .459 adv duration 270 degrees, at .050 the dur. is 210 degrees.
LSA112 degrees. 1500-5500 rpm. I have this laying around and wouldnt mind putting it to use.


Thanks

Atilla the Fun

Any changes of parts will change the power, The only way to know the exact result from the changed parts is with another dyno pull.
Even well-ported Vortec heads still need a dual-pattern cam. It seems your cam has a much smaller exhaust lobe than the one tested. Expect to lose at least 500 rpm, and expect to lose at least 50 horses.

87tpiz28

iTrader: (2)

Seems like ill go for that comp cam in your build. As far as using shorty headers (california smog ) would that be a noticeable power loss?

firehawk1724

this may sound silly but i have a 89 trans am stock right now....so basically all i would have to change is intake, a comp cam, and heads that you listed?

firehawk1724

Ok so I have a 89 trans am 5.7 with a 700r....but I plan to swap in a T56 in.....what can I do to achieve 350tpi numbers factoring in the chassis and such?

Atilla the Fun

Your phrasing makes no sense, so I'll just have to type that if you're wanting to copy the 420 HP TPI 350 Vortec build, and figuring the T56, you should get 365 HP at the rear wheels.